Confronting DH about his sulking...part2

[jamaisjedors]

New thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

First one is running out of space due to all the amazing support I have had from all you mners!

To summarize, H is a serious sulker, gives me the silent treatment to get his own way or to "punish" me.

I was ready to leave, almost out the door over Christmas/New year.

Things have calmed down now as he has agreed to see a psychotherapist and suggested marriage counselling. I have my own psychotherapist.

Now trying to work through why on earth this has happened and make a calm, rational decision about my future and our family's future.

This started a very passionate conversation with my husband and his friends and their wives last night. (They all have daughters who are all younger than ours, also....). None of these men are remotely creepy and are mortified at the stories shared by the wives and I, then by our daughters (12 & 14 - I swear my husband has been grinding his teeth ever since!). They are so shocked and mortified at the matter of factness with which we reported sexual harassment and how frequently it happens - and from what age. They are so naive. Not all men are icky, it’s true, but a lot of people - male AND female have covered up for a lot of icky men for a very, very long time, and women and girls HAVE put up with this shit for far too long.

Sorry! Wrong post!!!!

It's a good post though Lou even so.

Hi all, H seemed to want to chat last night so we had (another!) long conversation.

Everytime we talk I think we are getting somewhere and then I realise that this is no change at all.

Last night we went over some of the things that were said in couples' counselling, and it was as if we had not been in the same room.

I don't know why I am surprised about this.

H is back to saying that his "silences" are totally reasonable and what he needs is time to recover after being hurt by me. I just need to adapt and change my attitude to them.

He honestly does not seem to see the problem at all, despite the counsellor having called him out on it quite clearly.

He mentioned that he had had a difficult time in individual counselling because the counsellor had asked him to express what emotions he was feeling.

Apparantly he got into some kind of theoretical argument with her about what an emotion actually is, and he seemed almost to be claiming that because he couldn't find a precise definition of them, they don't exist!

He agreed with the fact that he probably doesn't really know what his needs and emotions are and so can't express them.

He also seemed to hear me when I said that he had a very "romantic" vision of relationships, ie I was expected to know what he wanted and give it to him despite him never telling me and also despite him constantly refusing me offering things.

He also thinks it's impossible to work on our relationship because "I" have put the pressure on by issuing an ultimatum and setting a time period (actually he was the one who asked me to stay and try for 6 months).

I think I'm back to "waiting for a sign" to tip me over the edge and out the door when from the outside the relationship doesn't seem to have any major problems.

I need to re-read the threads I think!!!

You have had sign after sign after sign. He thinks you are not a person in your own right with your own needs. You are just there to service him, sexually, domestically, put up with his sulks, walk on eggshells all the time in case you inadvertently do something to put him in a sulk. If that's the life you want, crack on. But I don't think it is.

You have a whole warehouse worth of signs.

What would the missing sign say?

Even just one post is exhausting it must be really exhausting living with it on a day to day basis

Good question - what would the missing sign say?

I think it would say "it's not you, it's him". or maybe "it would be impossible to make this relationship work".

I guess my fear is that I have contributed to this situation and so leaving it behind me won't make any difference long-term because I'll still be the same person.

What is wrong with me? I am an intelligent, successful person, almost everyone I know likes me or at least finds me pleasant enough, a feminist, defend other people every day in my job, and yet I can't seem to trust my judgement enough to just walk away here.

He is actually being very clear!

Your happiness doesn't matter
Your needs don't matter
The pain he causes you purposely doesn't count

His moods need to accommodated
His needs need to be magically accommodated
You need to be punished for any pain you accidentally cause him

Oh and the DC needs don't seem to matter either...

Are yourDC aware there are issues between you? How do you think they will react if/when you tell them you are splitting up? I am concerned he will make them believe it is all your fault and badmouth you.

Are you sure you don't trust your own judgement? It doesn't sound that way to me.

It seems more like inertia to me.

I may be projecting but when I read your posts it reminds me of when I've got an exciting new project to start that has a great business case but getting myself off the starting blocks takes superhuman mental energy. I can't quite explain why, maybe fear of the vast amount of work to do (am always exhausted as it is). It's always fine when I force myself to start, usually by roping in other people and creating deadlines.

I think I'm back to "waiting for a sign"

He giving you a big side of the building poster size sign

If you want to continue with this marriage then you put up and shut up. You allow him to sulk and tantrum, give in sex when ever he demands.

And lose yourself completely to him, your happiness, your well being doesn't matter. Your feeling are unimportant to him.

I think it's the fear of making an irrevocable decision.

I've gone back and forth on this in my mind over the last 10 years but have never been so close to the door (have seen a lawyer, set up a bank account, am looking at houses, have a clear plan in mind).

It's kind of like standing on the edge of a cliff (or a diving board) and not quite being ready to dive in and take all the consequences that come with it.

Plus the insidious doubts from years of being told that it is all me, that H is perfectly reasonable, and that anyone else would be perfectly happy with what we have.

Clutterbugsmum that's actually what a friend said to me yesterday.

Seriously my marriage is far from great (on both sides) neither of us would find tolerating his behaviour acceptable it is horrible!

Maybe finding the house will be the trigger. Then you are not stepping off a cliff but stepping onto a bridge.

Found it OP

Well if he's perfectly reasonable, he won't have any problems living on his own without you.

Whatever about your "irrevocable decision", he's already made one that you must subjegate yourself to him and his moods in all areas. This is no way to live the only life you both have.

Are you happy?

You’re amazing op.

Are you not exhausted by all this? A healthy relationship shouldn’t require as much introspection, compromise (on your part) and navel gazing.

Does he make you happy on a day to day basis? Can you overlook the bits of him that aren’t perfect? If the answer is no, get out!

A few thoughts.

Are you waiting for him to say it's over? If he does, are you going to ask him not to say that and to take you back? If not, it's time to go.

Do you still want to have the feeling in your chest, head and heart in 3 months, 6 months, a year, 5 years time? Because it's not going away now, why will it go away in future based on the last few months of action?

I guarantee your children are not happy. I was happier when my parents broke up because finally the atmosphere was palatable. Kids are not daft, they know you two are unhappy.

Money and logistics are lower down the pecking order here. Save your sanity. Your man is gaslighting you at every turn. It's abuse.

And this is why you should never go to joint councilng with an abuser he’s taken the bits that he agreed with, twisted it about a bit to fit with how he wants the world to look. Not unlike what he’s done your entire relationship. It/he will never improve

This ^ wot WhoKnewBeefStew said

Whether consciously or unconsciously, he is very clever at deflecting from his own siht onto everyone else. ' Can't express his needs' pah and yet he has the household all dancing to his tune.

Taking responsibility for your own siht is really the first step to being a decent adult, the kind others want to connect with.

I am sorry he is messing you around so badly. I suspect that only when you get away will you begin to understand just how much and how badly.

Remember wisdom from earlier in the thread , the people who get away are those whose resolve to leave survives even the times when the abuser is playing nice to reel you in again. There is a picture there of a reel and a line which is not pleasant, but, I think, apt.

It sounds a bit like he's trying very hard to gaslight you into believing that the councillor did not say what they said.
"He's saying they said this and he's sure he's right. I'm sure they didn't. One of us must be wrong - how do I know it isn't me?"

After all, you've had literally years of being trained into accepting that his view is the truth: "You're not angry because I'm pushing your boundaries and sulking, you're angry because you're a mean and unreasonable woman", "I'm not sulking for some mysterious reason, I'm sulking because you did something mean ON PURPOSE and you SHOULD KNOW what that was already."

Would your councillor agree to write out some "relationship goals" ie "this is what I've said" along the lines of
"when there is an issue, the person who is upset should communicate why that is to the other person. Being silent and upset is not how issues get resolved", just so that you have backup when he claims that the sky is green and the councillor agreed with him?