S-I-L has changed.

[everydayiwonder]

I feel really sorry for my niece and nephew, but my husband is telling me to keep my nose out.
Basically S-I-L has changed beyond recognition.
She used to be very Mother Earth, extended breast fed, organic food, homemade everything from scratch, co-slept and bragged about how eldest child was 5 and they’d never had a night apart.
So a couple of years ago she started a hobby. She’s pretty amateur at this hobby, but clearly enjoys it.
My worry is how much her attitude towards her kids have changed.
Literally overnight she’ll palm the kids off on anyone she can for sleepovers or whole days so she can do her hobby.
Her kids are scruffy and dirty because she’s not really paying them attention. She lets them dress themselves and if they want to wear the same clothes every day for a week then she lets them for an easy life.
Their hair is scruffy and getting matted as she doesn’t bother brushing it.
She puts the kids (5 and 7) to bed at 10.30pm at the weekends so they lie in in the morning so she can do her hobby.
She goes away most weekends and travels abroad at least 5 times a year alone, while her kids are begging her to go on an aeroplane.
She’s spending all of the families money on her hobby. The kids have asked to do karate and dancing, but she’s said no as it costs too much and it eats into her hobby time. Bearing in mind she has hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of hobby clothing and materials.
She constantly slags the kids off and says they’re annoying and she deserves her me time.
To top it off today she dumped the kids round here this morning and they were moaning that my kids had sledges and they didn’t (all had a snow day)
S-I-L said she wasn’t prepared to spend £20 on something they’d use once when she could buy herself a new sports bra.
They go on holiday once a year as a family and it’s somewhere where S-I-L does her hobby.
The kids sit in a tent all day waiting for their mum to finish. Even grandparents go down for a couple of days to take the kids out somewhere or they’d do nothing for the kids all holiday.
I just think it’s sad that my niece and nephew are going without their mums time, energy, attention and money, while S-I-L gets everything she wants.
B-I-L is besotted and won’t say anything to her.
He’s suffering from awful depression at the moment and doesn’t have the energy to confront her. It’s like his priority is pleasing his wife and not the kids.
I know nothing will be done re the kids, as they’re fed, bathed a couple of times a week, have a roof over their head (although the house is a dump due to S-I-L not having the time to clean)
I just feel bad. Both kids are really behind in school as no one bothers to do reading or homework with them.
She’s got her priorities all wrong and her kids will be little for such a short time.
I want to shake her.

@Parthenope I think you are wrong. A 5 and 7 year old with matted hair, dirty stained clothes that they have worn for a week, making their own food and not having their basic needs met is a case for SS.

No harm in getting advice from NSPCC but would you not even have a conversation with her first?

I can't see this being a SS issue based on the facts we've been told.

Depends how bad it is? Only OP can say if it's "bit scruffy" or actually that bad.

BIL needs to step and be a decent father, he should be capable of doing most of the things that SIL is not doing. Since when has a man been incapable of brushing hair, making decent meals, playing with children or taking them out?

"It's a tricky one because as PP said a lot of this isn't abusive in that SS would possibly get involved (with the exception of the personal care but is it really that bad?) but really sad for the children".

And they are the ones who are going to feel the affects of all this well into adulthood also.

Who are we to decide that a lot of this isn't abusive in that social services would possibly get involved?. What is so wrong with that anyway even if they did decide to?. It still does not mean that they are not worth talking to here just because someone in the wider world does not think it meets their own criteria for what abuse or neglect is.

The girl that I wrote of earlier, her family were known to Social services and they were of interest to them.

Thanks for all the responses.
In regards to where she’s swimming I don’t know details. She uses an indoor Olympic pool, an outdoor pool and swimming lake.
I don’t know enough details about what time of year she swims in each one. When she mentioned it a few months ago she said about cold water swimming but she may be in a pool now. Not a clue.
Just feel bad for the kids. They are not the dirtiest kids I’ve ever seen, but they’re scruffy and have dirty hands and nails and sticky matted hair.
It’s more the unsuitable clothing, eg sandals in January, but SIL says they’re expressing their own fashion sense. It’s more that they fend for themselves and dress themselves and no one is bothered enough to get them changed.
Older child was wearing younger child’s joggers the other day which are about 3 inches too short and she was freezing.
I know this probably all sounds really petty, but it’s like they’ve given up caring about the kids.
Unsuitable clothing, wearing each other’s stuff which is too big/small, sandals in zero degree weather, scruffy hair, dirty nails, dirty clothes, helping themselves to food as apparently they’re fussy eaters so they let them help themselves to stuff they will eat from the cupboard.
Parents suggesting that they can eat when they are hungry, and wear whatever clothes they want to express themselves, and fend for themselves.
So hard to describe.
It’s like they all live alongside each other, but don’t really parent.
If my child came down with siblings clothing on which was too small and not going to keep them warm then I would insist on changing them before they left the house.
SIL and BIL just roll their eyes at the outfit choices and let them stand on the sidelines of races dressed like it.

You know this is going on with them and you see these children directly.

Bad things happen when good people stand by and do nothing. At the very least I would urge you to talk to the NSPCC about what you describe with your SILs children. No-one else seemingly amongst your relations has been involved to date, they may well be waiting for someone else to act or not think its their business. Do not be that person that merely watches and waits.

I dont know why everyone is blaming the BIL. Yes he could be better but everyone seems to be ignoring that his SIL is so controlling that he's not even allowed to have friends! He sounds like he's in an abusive relationship on top of having depression.

“They are not the dirtiest kids I’ve ever seen, but they’re scruffy and have dirty hands and nails and sticky matted hair”

Nah, if this is the case every time you see them then this is classic neglect.

I was that child. My mum is a project person, always has a project on the go, and drops the old one when a new one takes her interest.
Unfortunately, one of her projects was having children and being the 'best mum.'
Until something else came along.
then we were left to fend for ourselves when she went off for days to do whatever it was, we were second best, and a bit of an inconvenience.
It wasn't the physical neglect that I resent so much, (we were the dirty, scruffy children who were bullied for it) it was the emotional neglect. We were second best to whatever was in her life, and we knew it. As an adult, I have had a lot of issues with low self-esteem and confidence, this has impacted many aspects of my life.

Please do something, her behaviour is impacting those children, and will have future repercussions.

Oh, Mumsnet! Where kids not doing karate and having matted hair is neglect. Nay, abuse!

@BerryTowel that was entirely unnecessary.

Inappropriate clothing in cold weather? Left to feed themselves? Dirty and unkempt? Sounds like neglect to me.

“kids not doing karate and having matted hair is neglect.”

Erm, the two are polar opposites. One is neglect, one CLEARLY isn’t. . Also you deliberately left the word “sticky” out of the hair description. Why do you want to play it down?

Women on hear are obsessed with "reporting" each other. What do you think will change with an SS visit? How do you envisage that helping the children? It's an awful thing to do.

Berry you sound like some kind of neglect apologist. What is wrong with you?

My ex sil was like his. 3 dc all within a few years of each other. She was Mother Earth type too, she ate, slept and breathe red her kids for about 6 years. Then simply up and left. Leaving my DB with the kids. He lost his job and his house as a result (he’s done a sterling job of raising them tho and they are now almost grown up). I think, because she was so full on, she burnt herself out and simply couldn’t do it any longer. I’m not condoning her behaviour, but maybe your sil is having a similar experience. But someone does need to pick her up in it though.

“she ate, slept and breathe red her kids for about 6 years.”

That’s what parents DO for those younger years. It’s just what you do. You put the kids first till they are more independent. There is nothing special about it.

Your SIL did not “burn herself out”. She just didn’t want to have parental responsibility anymore. I know someone who is heading that way. She is a very self-obsessed and manipulative individual. On social media she is the perfect parent and people comment as such. But I know what’s really going on behind the scenes and all is most definitely not what it seems.

Here's NSPCC helpline.

Please call.

Does sound like the bil is in abusive relationship
All more reason for support to be offered.
And the best way might be for school to refer it as a child safeguarding issue. Op can co tact GP school health visitor nspcc and raise the concern.
Doing nothing won't help the children.

Please do report. NSPCC will advise and definitely needs ss involvement/support. They are being neglected.

I would fear the repercussions of a family intervention - in all probability the family would be cut off for it and then heaven help those children.

Those who say you should stop childcare need their heads tested. The neglect would be unremitting.

You need to contact relevant authorities. The NSPCC helpline says

If you're worried about a child, even if you're unsure, contact our professional counsellors 24/7 for help, advice and support.

That's you, op. Make the call.

Your sil sounds like a shit parent. Can't get over the amount of people trying to defend her shite parenting or deflect onto the husband (who sounds equally shite but at least he is out working and providing financially). Sadly there is nothing you can do other than try and be kind and loving to your nephew and nieces when you can. I certainly wouldn't cut them out on the basis it's your dh' s family bloodwise so not your problem. That's cold hearted cuntiness imo. Just take/see them on your terms, to suit you and not the sil.

I know a few people who are amateur triathletes. They are absolutely obsessed - before work, after work, all weekend. It’s like a cult - matching tattoos, clothing, diets. We have one constantly begging for bits on a group as it’s hard being a single parent, but then she has latest gear, bike etc.

I really don’t get it (would rather take the dog for a walk), but if you have that type of personality I can see how you would get sucked in.

I do think your DH needs a chat with his brother - good luck.

You need to stop blaming her it's all she's selfish, she's to blame, but these children have two parents, not just one. Stop giving him a free pass, excusing his behaviour, he works, he has depression, it's not his fault.

He bears equal responsibility he doesn't get absolved because you like him better than her.

BIL is depressed - ergo BIL is ill. BIL works full time.

SIL is not, as far as we know, depressed. She is not ill. She does not work.

I think it’s fair play to put the majority of the responsibility for sorting kids out on her if you ask me.

I think best bet would be to focus on getting BIL support for his illness so you can enable him to step up.

Can DH talk to him about seeing a doctor?