S-I-L has changed.

[everydayiwonder]

I feel really sorry for my niece and nephew, but my husband is telling me to keep my nose out.
Basically S-I-L has changed beyond recognition.
She used to be very Mother Earth, extended breast fed, organic food, homemade everything from scratch, co-slept and bragged about how eldest child was 5 and they’d never had a night apart.
So a couple of years ago she started a hobby. She’s pretty amateur at this hobby, but clearly enjoys it.
My worry is how much her attitude towards her kids have changed.
Literally overnight she’ll palm the kids off on anyone she can for sleepovers or whole days so she can do her hobby.
Her kids are scruffy and dirty because she’s not really paying them attention. She lets them dress themselves and if they want to wear the same clothes every day for a week then she lets them for an easy life.
Their hair is scruffy and getting matted as she doesn’t bother brushing it.
She puts the kids (5 and 7) to bed at 10.30pm at the weekends so they lie in in the morning so she can do her hobby.
She goes away most weekends and travels abroad at least 5 times a year alone, while her kids are begging her to go on an aeroplane.
She’s spending all of the families money on her hobby. The kids have asked to do karate and dancing, but she’s said no as it costs too much and it eats into her hobby time. Bearing in mind she has hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of hobby clothing and materials.
She constantly slags the kids off and says they’re annoying and she deserves her me time.
To top it off today she dumped the kids round here this morning and they were moaning that my kids had sledges and they didn’t (all had a snow day)
S-I-L said she wasn’t prepared to spend £20 on something they’d use once when she could buy herself a new sports bra.
They go on holiday once a year as a family and it’s somewhere where S-I-L does her hobby.
The kids sit in a tent all day waiting for their mum to finish. Even grandparents go down for a couple of days to take the kids out somewhere or they’d do nothing for the kids all holiday.
I just think it’s sad that my niece and nephew are going without their mums time, energy, attention and money, while S-I-L gets everything she wants.
B-I-L is besotted and won’t say anything to her.
He’s suffering from awful depression at the moment and doesn’t have the energy to confront her. It’s like his priority is pleasing his wife and not the kids.
I know nothing will be done re the kids, as they’re fed, bathed a couple of times a week, have a roof over their head (although the house is a dump due to S-I-L not having the time to clean)
I just feel bad. Both kids are really behind in school as no one bothers to do reading or homework with them.
She’s got her priorities all wrong and her kids will be little for such a short time.
I want to shake her.

Wow i find this thread really upsetting and I've seen the exact same thing before. Anything critical of another woman/mother is jumped on as 'none of your business' - even when the whole point of the story was that children are suffering and potentially at risk of harm.
To everyone who's made a sneering 'get a life/ butt out' type of comment to the OP, are you the same people who look the other way when you see a parent slapping and verbally abusing their young child in the supermarket? Shame on you if so. There's an expression that it takes a whole village to raise a child...in our stupidly insular society, couples or singles are supposed to go it alone, with little help and no comment. The idea that parenting is a private thing, not the business of even a close relatives, is pure madness imo. The OP is reporting serious neglect, the children are just 5 and 7 ffs. How the hell is it wrong of her to be concerned? Would it be none of her business if her SIL starts hitting the kids too? At what point is she allowed to say SIL is in the wrong and thar the children need help?

BUT there are neglected kids in all this.

It's irrelevant what we think of her, or him: the kids are being neglected. So you have to do something.

Tell your GP. The GP will do the necessaries. Don't hold back when you tell the GP exactly what you are concerned about. Obviously tell the GP the names and where they live. It won't be traced back to you.

Even if it was traced back to you, and it won't be, you have to step in for the kids. BOTH their parents are sick.

"OP's husband is taking a back seat and OP, by pushing herself forward, is propping up a failing system. What's the point of that?"

It's a funny old world when a close family member offering help is criticised for 'propping up a failing system.'

I expect shes doing what she can, in order to help the children, aware that the situation is not serious enough to warrant professional intervention.

If she withdrew support they might step up, or things might get a whole lot worse.

Both op and her dh have tried talking to both parents, to no avail.

Poor kids. A father ill with depression, and a mum who doesn't give a shit about them.

OP, keep doing what you're doing, the kids will love you for it. And if you need a rant come to mn because it's what we're here for (well unless you're moaning about another woman apparently).

I'm not suggesting that nothing gets done, I've never said that. Just that OP's husband really ought to step in rather than leaving his wife to prop up this family. That's not fair to OP.

The parents (SIL/BIL) need to sort themselves out and, if they need outside intervention from official agencies then that's a shame but if it's what the children need then so be it.

OP/OP's husband/Grandparents are not getting it done. With the best will in the world, that's benign neglect because it's tinkering at the edges and because of this 'help' the parents are getting away with leaving their children to others and ultimately in a state of neglect. Those parents need to understand that their wants do not come before the needs of their children.

Lauren actually read the comments before you start picking on what you think other posters have written. It's not about criticising another woman, both parents are faulty at the moment yet OP's attention has been solely on her SIL as it always is on MN.

In fairness, I think the OP focused on the wife because the topic of the post was how she, the wife, had changed. The husband has always been the same.

This is a thread about an obsessive person whose focus has changed to the detriment of two young kids, and how best to deal with it. Obv the husband is relevant, but OP wanted advice about her, not him.

I'd be surprised if the teachers haven't noticed tbh. I think the intervention might come via the school. Or, the hobby willl lose its shine.

OP try to make time for yourself. No reason why there shouldn't be a happy medium.

tbf I think the focus does need to be on sil, since bil is ill with depression. It's not something he can snap out of, he's ill. Anyone who's lived with it, or supported someone through it, knows they can't just 'man up'.

Super, OP didn't ask for advice at all. Her posts have just been a stream of judgement about her SIL's behaviour rather than any kind of suggestion of any meaningful action that could be taken.

I hope the school does notice and, if OP has posted accurately, then I'm sure they will/have done and this will be taken out of the family's hands. They're not equipped to deal with this issue, for whatever reason, so better that this happens sooner rather than later if the children are in such a state of neglect.

It is incredibly upsetting and I can't imagine how those children feel.

bil is ill

So is sil!

Clearly, child abuse can happen in any home and takes many forms. There are many ways to neglect children.

BOTH the parents are ill.

Op you're just going to have to step up - for the kids. Regardless what you think of the parents.

I see I've reprated myself!

Ah well, perhaps it bears repeating.

Not forget that exercise at this level can become an addiction. It did with my SIL to the point she needed hip replacements at 50 and still kept needing to exercise!

I really agree with GloomyMonday. I can’t believe how much vitriol you’ve got for stepping up and helping them. These children are being neglected but the suggestion is you step back and let it happen. Wow. People seem to have an awful lot of confidence that this will quickly lead to the parents either stepping up or the authorities stepping in, rather than just more neglect. But I guess because you’re not a blood relative you’re not allowed to care?! And yes I would be very judgemental of this woman too, and cross with her. She has every single day from 9-3 for ‘me time’, way more than the vast majority of people, yet she still uses a lot of time before school, after school and the weekends as well as going away. She hasn’t got time to buy her kids gloves or keep them in clean clothes!! People are saying she is ill, but she is neglecting her kids. Dad needs to step up and help her get support if she is ill or stand up to her if she’s not, but he does not have equal responsibility for domestic tasks when he works 8-6 and she doesn’t. And your husband and his parents should be letting him know how worried they are, however much he doesn’t want to hear it. For the kids’ sake I think you should keep having them round and giving them stability. I would also be tempted to talk to their school.

If you are a SAHM who has 2 kids at school then I think it should be you making sure the kids have what they need is gloves. If she was obsessed with attachment parenting and breastfeeding for years, it is likely her DH was pushed out of most of the parenting so then to suddenly assume he knows what to do and manage for 2 weeks whilst working full time is a big ask. Are your SIL parents around? Do they not say anything?

I also don't understand why you're getting such a hard time, OP. I don't think it's about your SIL vs your BIL. She's the SAHM, she should naturally be spending more time with the kids.

Having a hobby is one thing, but having an all-consuming obsession that's leading to the kids being neglected is quite another. There are a large amount of threads on here about narcissistic parents and their (now adult) children struggling with the lasting damage ... this is a situation like that in the making.

You, your DH and/or the grandparents need to intervene. And discuss with the school, if that's possible. Someone needs to have a reasoned conversation with your SIL, probably with your BIL present, to outline what you can see happening to the kids.

Her behaviour is inexcusably selfish.

"I'd be surprised if the teachers haven't noticed tbh. I think the intervention might come via the school. Or, the hobby willl lose its shine".

Even nowadays, school teachers do not always see signs of neglect. After all there are around 30 kids in each class on average and teachers are not social workers. One or two teachers who the child sees regularly may have their own private based suspicions that things are not great at home but often the child says nothing to anyone let alone their teacher. This type of abuse thrives on secrecy.

These children to my mind are fortunate to have someone like the OP on their side and she as an adult is in a position to advocate for them. How many people know that this sort of thing is happening in their own family; probably quite a number. And how many actually act; hardly any because they are mistrustful of social services. The phrase, "lessons will be learnt" springs to mind here, it never fails to amaze to me how many people knew after the event. Bad things happen when people stand by and do nothing. We cannot rely on other people to report such if we know neglect is happening right in front of our very eyes. It is our business!.

And as for a comment made earlier by another poster that Social Services would laugh I think that is entirely wrong as well as well as ignorance. This whole situation has dragged on for years as it is with these children now being 5 and 7. OPs SIL has an obsessive personality whilst her H is depressed. These two between them are harming their children emotionally because they in different ways are wrapped up entirely in their own lives and miseries. I do also think the attraction of triathlons will wear off for her eventually but only after she has found something else to obsess over and has spent a ton of money in the process. Personality disorders are a real thing and affect families markedly.

OP, you don't come across as gratuitously judgmental / interfering / bitter in the slightest. You seem genuinely concerned, puzzled and a bit at your wits' end, and understandably so.

I agree with GloomyMonday, and those who have said similar stuff, in their reading of the situation and expectations.

Those kids are really lucky to have you looking out for them. Short term, I would say keep helping, and even step it up, if you can and want to, because someone has to - they're 5 and 7.

Longer term I would say an intervention is needed, involving your husband, BIL, and both sets of grandparents, but that sounds nigh on impossible to pull off, given the attitudes you describe.

In the meantime, I hope you can continue to come here and vent a little and get some support when you need it.

Don’t pull away from those kids - you’re quite possibly the one stable element they have in their lives.

I agree that a family intervention of some description is needed here - DH, PILs and your SILs parents?

Go to the grandparents and tell them your concerns

Tell them you haven't got time any more to keep checking on your nephew/niece

Ask them how this can get sorted

Suggest an au pair, nanny, cleaner, housekeeper, social services, friends getting involved .....any of the above

See what the grandparents say

You seem to be both a stabilising and calm influence on their chaotic home lives. They enjoy seeing you and playing with your own children, they need this and this is important (particularly if their mother is obsessive in terms of personality). Someone has to be their advocate here too and if your H is not going to be this for whatever reason (probably some misguided loyalty to his brother is in there somewhere amongst other things) then you should. You know already that things are not ideal for these kids at home.

I would also contact your GP and tell this person all your concerns about SIL and her children, do not hold back on any of it. I would also consider now having a chat with the NSPCC and Social Services. Do not wait for other people to act (or not as the case often is), start this ball rolling yourself.

I think you have to decide what to do that is within your control. Either you decide that as their aunt you fill the gaps the parents aren’t able to and feed them/clothe them when at yours or you decide it’s sad but too much for you and stop doing childcare. I don’t think you can change them and it sounds like your DH has already come to that conclusion

If you believe the children are being neglected, you need to report it.

SIL may well be ill. I grew up with 2 triathlete parents and they still had time to look after me. I didn't get delicious home cooked meals, etc, but they had time to make me a sandwich or cook some fish fingers, etc. And give me a wash! It wont be lack of time on her part. No idea what BIL is doing either if he works relatively normal FT job. Both letting the kids down.

Triathletes are usually obsessional people because of the training load that's required. But this combined with her previous preoccupation with food and health etc is a bit of a concern. It is really easy for people (especially new in the sport) to spend an inordinate amount of time and money on it (most of which is a waste). But you can't comment on, really (her MH side of things)..it's a shame for everyone if there is something deeper going on there

Report it if you're concerned, honestly.

By the way, THIS:

And I don't think anyone would say that to a woman working full time and suffering from depression, whose stay-at-home husband was indulging in a hobby 24/7, spending thousands of family money, neglecting the kids he's supposed to be looking after instead of getting a paid job. I think he'd be called a cocklodger and she'd be told that her depression would vanish if she kicked him out.

A bit of role reversal really puts things into perspective.

This is classic addictive behaviour. Addiction excludes everything else to the point of abuse and neglect.
It will get worse and the children are at serious risk.
I would be talking to the school as a matter of urgency.
Those poor children.
Their father has good reason to be depressed and is not capable of solving this.
Ask anyone who has lived with an addict. They are completely self absorbed, lack empathy, are totally selfish. Nothing matters except the thing they are addicted to.
Even professionals struggle to change an addict's behaviour so the focus should be on rescuing the children and then helping the husband.

She runs 10k every morning then spins and goes for cold water swims every day in the UK at this time of year? Where on Earth is she going? I’m a sponsored triathlete and that’s absolutely not how I or anyone I know trains - pretty much everybody is in the pool at this time of year. I certainly won’t be getting in any lakes or sea until the weather warms up - are you sure you have this all right?

Both parents are mentally ill. The children are neglected. This is what Social Services are for.

Your husband needs to pull his head out of his bum and talk to his brother. I agree that you are doing too much, to the point of martyrdom - step back and get some other people involved. What do your ILs think about this all?