S-I-L has changed.

[everydayiwonder]

I feel really sorry for my niece and nephew, but my husband is telling me to keep my nose out.
Basically S-I-L has changed beyond recognition.
She used to be very Mother Earth, extended breast fed, organic food, homemade everything from scratch, co-slept and bragged about how eldest child was 5 and they’d never had a night apart.
So a couple of years ago she started a hobby. She’s pretty amateur at this hobby, but clearly enjoys it.
My worry is how much her attitude towards her kids have changed.
Literally overnight she’ll palm the kids off on anyone she can for sleepovers or whole days so she can do her hobby.
Her kids are scruffy and dirty because she’s not really paying them attention. She lets them dress themselves and if they want to wear the same clothes every day for a week then she lets them for an easy life.
Their hair is scruffy and getting matted as she doesn’t bother brushing it.
She puts the kids (5 and 7) to bed at 10.30pm at the weekends so they lie in in the morning so she can do her hobby.
She goes away most weekends and travels abroad at least 5 times a year alone, while her kids are begging her to go on an aeroplane.
She’s spending all of the families money on her hobby. The kids have asked to do karate and dancing, but she’s said no as it costs too much and it eats into her hobby time. Bearing in mind she has hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of hobby clothing and materials.
She constantly slags the kids off and says they’re annoying and she deserves her me time.
To top it off today she dumped the kids round here this morning and they were moaning that my kids had sledges and they didn’t (all had a snow day)
S-I-L said she wasn’t prepared to spend £20 on something they’d use once when she could buy herself a new sports bra.
They go on holiday once a year as a family and it’s somewhere where S-I-L does her hobby.
The kids sit in a tent all day waiting for their mum to finish. Even grandparents go down for a couple of days to take the kids out somewhere or they’d do nothing for the kids all holiday.
I just think it’s sad that my niece and nephew are going without their mums time, energy, attention and money, while S-I-L gets everything she wants.
B-I-L is besotted and won’t say anything to her.
He’s suffering from awful depression at the moment and doesn’t have the energy to confront her. It’s like his priority is pleasing his wife and not the kids.
I know nothing will be done re the kids, as they’re fed, bathed a couple of times a week, have a roof over their head (although the house is a dump due to S-I-L not having the time to clean)
I just feel bad. Both kids are really behind in school as no one bothers to do reading or homework with them.
She’s got her priorities all wrong and her kids will be little for such a short time.
I want to shake her.

For a start stop doing child care for them. To be honest, both SIL and BIL sound as bad as each other. SIL for not giving a shit about anything but herself and BIL for seemingly letting her get away with it, driving her around etc.

Just tell them some home truths, then step away.

BIL could take them swimming or to karate at the weekend, or even one evening in the week.

I'm also surprised the school haven't picked up on the matted hair. That should raise concerns, as well as their state of apparent neglect.

Your SIL is obsessive...but I would refuse to provide childcare for her.

I feel sorry for the kids. Their parents are letting them down and these are the kids who end up needing therapy later on in life, because their memories are not the EBF or organic food research... it's not doing extra curricular activities and having to watch mum do activities. It's not having what other kids do.

It'll be getting into trouble purely for attention....because they get ignored... so any attention is better than no attention.

Their actions as parents are damaging....your BIL could do with going on a parenting course.

My experience is that these hobbies...that become obsessive are to fill a void...but often lead to something else. She's now got 2 kids in school, but rather than get a job, she prefers financial dependence and spending what sounds like a lot of money on this hobby.

I can see why your DH is saying to stay out of it. The truth is his brother is doing a crap job of being a dad... it's difficult to hear that for him.

Yes it sounds like she is mentally ill as well

They need help and intervention OP -professional

I’m afraid however much it upsets your husband you need to put the child first and report

I’m really shocked at some of the people saying OP is being judgemental and clearly doesn’t like her SIL. To me, OP is just setting the scene and creating a picture in great detail so that we can see how bad things are. Yet because OP is listing everything that SIL is doing that is of concern to try and paint a true picture of the situation, somehow that becomes “being judgmental”?! I mean, WTF?!

In that case, social workers are judgemental, as are teachers, and neighbours who report neglectful behaviours to the authorities.

What SIL is doing is not alright, in any way. What her husband is putting up with is horrendous. Put yourself in his shoes, for god’s sake, especially if you’ve ever had depression and held down a full time job at the same time. He has probably got nothing left to give at the end of the day, and why should he need to do the basic parenting she should have done when he was out at work all day.

I work full time and would not be impressed at supporting a “partner” financially while they did not work but neglected the kids to boot. It is totally grounds for a divorce, based on unreasonable behaviour. She is not his “partner”.

But he is between a rock and a hard place. There is no easy solution for him as if he divorces her in this situation the kids could well be worse off and neglected totally while in her care. As in left on their own in the house etc He is trapped and that isn’t going to help his depression.

However I think it’s something he should consider as this clearly can’t go on. Maybe that will bring her to her senses.

I bet the children would end up taken into care though and they would possibly look to the wider family first to place the kids with someone they know. That would be you, OP. Could you have the kids full time in a more formal arrangement?

You’re stuck really, OP. If you confront her about the neglect of the kids, she may get all defensive and stop you seeing them completely and then what happens to them?

I really feel for you.

I think on balance I would be emailing the kids’ school, explain why you’re reluctant to report to social services yourself bht didn’t want to leave it altogethet. let them do the official referring to social services. But it would be on the understanding that it could cause mean that you are asked to have the kids full time.

By the way, there is PLENTY to be judgmental about here, apart from the actual neglect. This, for one:

“She constantly slags the kids off and says they’re annoying”

She sounds a horrible horrible excuse for a human being. Poor poor kids

SS aren’t going to have the slightest interest in a family where the children are fed and (albeit scruffily) clothed and have a roof over their heads, go to bed late at the weekends, don’t go to karate or dance classes (isn’t swimming part of the national curriculum?) or go on foreign holidays, have to watch their mother take spinning classes, and whose mother goes abroad five times a year, leaving them with their other parent or grandparents.

The children are not their mother’s first priority at the moment, but that’s not a SS issue.

Just re read first post. “B-I-L is besotted and won’t say anything to her.”

that’s A massive issue right there. Is this the actual case, though? So he sees nothing wrong with what she’s doing?

Doesn’t sound like anything is going to change if he lets her have her own way with everything. Sounds like he is happy with her spending all the family money on her hobby etc? hard to tell from your posts really. How is his depression manifesting itself?

I can't believe the abuse you have had from some op. If it was a stay at home dad who was never there and always doing his hobby and neglecting his kids completely this thread would be in uproar.
And how does 5 yrs of parenting qualify you to abdicate all responsibility because you are entitled to some me time ?
I agree she is mentally unwell and if neither parent can step up then yes report to social services it might at least shock them into some kind of action to improve things.

Parthenope: OP did say they rooted through cupboards looking for food. That could be just a boundaries issue or it could be that they are starving and fending for themselves.

I would prefer to let SS decide if that is neglectful or not.

The kids aren’t being neglected though. It doesn’t sound as if they are being parented in a particularly conscientious way but their needs are being met. The parents are being selfish but objectively lots of children have scruffy hair and untidy houses and not all children get to do extra curricular activities, lots of parents in the real world don’t care about hairstyles or are too busy to keep house or can’t afford this for them, everyone is different. I can’t see why professionals would have any interest in this (the children are pale? It’s February, I’m pale too! The kids go on holiday in a tent, I’d have loved that age 7!) but can see why op is dismayed at the change in her sil even if some of the details seem a bit off.

My kids are always in the cupboards and I cook for them every day. 100% not starving, just healthy, growing boys who do a lot of sport as they were born into a healthy, active household. That should be the way here, hopefully fingers can be pulled out because a good example could be being set to the children if she handled it better. Often there are children’s events alongside the adults that she could get them involved in training for etc, there is a junior park run they could be going along to on weekends that sil could use as part of her run. Why don’t you take a look op, maybe get your kids involved too and show her a better way.

It’s a wonderful sport for families and my dc made lots of friends when we used to travel to events with their father’s club before they got a bit older and rugby took over our lives.

My ex-best friend did something very similar (so much that I did slightly wonder if we're talking about the same woman). She was definitely more along the traditional stereotype of an earth mother than me (to each I say, their own), and took that very seriously. Lots of our conversation was about this, but we had some great fun talking about that and other things too. We were best friends for years and years, then she got into triathlon and (in fairness I moved house about two years before that so we might have started to cool off over time too), and suddenly she went pretty much no contact with me. I went to visit, she didn't have much time for me, just spend it on the laptop looking at race clothes and things and going out training. I miss her still (missing in triathlon action since approx 2014!). The children probably had quite some changes to get used to, but they do have an amazing father.

SwimmingKaren: this sound like a holiday to you? It doesn’t to me. You don’t “sit in a tent all day” when you go camping as kids. You go off rock pooling, flying kites, digging sandcastles, crabbing, fishing or whatever.

“The kids sit in a tent all day waiting for their mum to finish. Even grandparents go down for a couple of days to take the kids out somewhere or they’d do nothing for the kids all holiday.”

It's fine to have a hobby, but if the parents are not meeting the children's basic needs then you need to intervene.

They sit in a tent every day for a week waiting for their mother to finish one race that is presumably less than a day long and before which she’d be tapering and afterwards resting so not training? That doesn’t sound quite right to me, as I said above.

I received NSPCC training in work and I would definitely ring social services. As Atilla said teachers don't have the time to notice. A little boy starved to death whilst attending school regularly. The teachers were overwhelmed by their work.

How do you think the children feel being dirty and neglected. They are in danger of being bullied at school because they are not clean. You should ring the NSPCC for advice OP.

You are a great auntie for being so concerned about them. Your concern is warranted.

You don't deserve the criticism you are getting. Your concern is evident. Don't do nothing.

What some people forget is that a) neglect happens in all sorts of homes and in nice areas and b) this type of issue is no respecter of class or creed. Food and shelter are but the barest of minimums here; its their emotional needs that matter here

You know your SIL and BIL and you are right to be concerned about their children particularly given her previous behaviours that also seem obsessive in nature. These people that OP writes of do not seem at all engaged with their kids on any level, that is the difference here.

Why should people have to look the other way?. Who can these children ultimately rely on and trust here?. Its not either the BIL or SIL in this case.

He’s not allowed friends, or hobbies, or to do anything outside of their family life.

why are people ignoring this?? She sounds awful and incredibly controlling.

And I don't think anyone would say that to a woman working full time and suffering from depression, whose stay-at-home husband was indulging in a hobby 24/7, spending thousands of family money, neglecting the kids he's supposed to be looking after instead of getting a paid job. I think he'd be called a cocklodger and she'd be told that her depression would vanish if she kicked him out.

This.

I’m a housing officer by trade so obviously work alongside SS and have been on all the safeguarding courses too and this wouldn’t necessarily ping for me but that’s possibly because I work so often with families in crisis so have some working knowledge of where the bar can often be set for children in need.

It may not ping for you but it may do to someone actually working within the childrens department in Social services, this is not for you or me to decide on. If no-one reports then they are not going to know anything. Where's the bar here for reporting in any case?. That's happened time and time again in wider society; people did know that things were going wrong within the home and quickly and no-one in authority joined the dots.

I don't think OP sounds like she is being judgemental at all. It's clearly a concerning situation and I think any of us would be concerned should this be our nieces/nephews.

Karen's idea of involving them is a good one but it sounds like she wouldn't possibly want to do that.

I'd be tempted to approach her directly if you used to be friendly. She's going on with this and no one is saying anything. BIL needs to get some help and stop sleep walking through this too.

It's a tricky one because as PP said a lot of this isn't abusive in that SS would possibly get involved (with the exception of the personal care but is it really that bad?) but really sad for the children.

More than willing to stand corrected if that’s the case, I deal with my side of it and just report when I need to and attend the relevant meetings but scruffy hair and a tent holiday wouldn’t raise concerns with me after dealing day in and day out with families with all kinds of problems. Everybody’s threshold is different depending on their experiences I suppose.

I remember at school a female classmate who was basically unkempt in appearance and she was indeed bullied by her peers for being so. I was infact one of her only friends. Her home life with her many siblings was chaotic too.

If I was the OP I would certainly be contacting the NSPCC here and seeking their further counsel.