Another 6am thread of misery!!

[Elliebellybum]

It’s becoming a regular thing from me, and I don’t even know what I want to say, I just want to get my thoughts down and maybe not see people’s eyes glazing over because it’s boring and why hasn’t she got over it yet?

Nutshell, left EA DH when the emotional side one night turned into a physical side.

Life since had been a horrific tale of homelessness, dragging young children all over the place, ex refusing to help financially/move out of the house/do anything.

Ex has veered between being a changed man who had an epiphany to a very spiteful, unkind man when he feels the former route isn’t working.

Instead of feeling settled I feel like I’m in high alert all the time as ex veers between these two personalities.
Last week he loved me and I was his life, less than a week later he is refusing to see the children (he doesn’t like the set up in place and will now only see them if it’s how he wants regardless of the kids thoughts), accusing me of stopping him seeing them (I’m not but the kids witnessed the attack so contact is in a certain way) and refusing to allow one of the kids to have something they left behind that they desperately want.

I can’t tell if I’m on my arse or my elbow and I’m constantly on edge, if we speak via messages I’m worried anything I say will be used against me in some kind of proceedings, I’m constantly second guessing and I’m becoming very paranoid, probably with a dash of depressed as well.

I’m so tired I can’t focus, yet I’m awake by 5 every day.

I have such confused feelings, I feel guilty, this man will see me and the kids homeless and starving if that’s what it takes to win, that’s not an exaggeration, he would let it happen, yet I feel bad because he isn’t poor and in a divorce he would lose quite a lot of money to me, which is one of the reasons I’ve not started a divorce yet. He however is not above trying to shift assets to keep them from me.

I still feel I need his approval. I try to explain and justify myself, when a “that’s how it is” should suffice. He feels no need to justify anything to me.

I feel like I’ve ruined his life and he is sat there miserable, minus me and the kids because of what I did. I can’t seem to get that me and the children are the victims.
But then he also tells me I have over egged what happened, that I’m equally to blame for the fact I got hurt, that I know the circumstances of how it happened, and if only I had done xyz it wouldnt have happened.
When you’re watching your whole life flushing down the toilet it’s a lot to have laid on you that you are where you are because you caused it, even if you know you probably didn’t.....

I feel like I’m a ball of guilt and confusion and upset.
The kids had never seen me cry prior to this, now I cry a lot, sometimes in the middle of dinner or a film I find myself crying and although the kids seem happy I know they miss him and our old house/life and I can’t describ how much guilt and feeling shit that heaps on me, because as my DH says if I wasn’t “being so stubborn and bloody minded” we could be back together.

One of the children told me yesterday she wished we could get back together because she misses him and wants to go home. The guilt it causes me is incredible.

My life is changing, I’ve gone from a SAHM who had no real worries, to a mum who now needs to get full benefits and over the next few months a part time job. It’s not working that’s the issue, it’s that it’s me now, holding it all together, I don’t have him there with his income to make sure it’s ok, in fact he’s now doing the polar opposite of making it ok.

Sorry it’s so long, I just need to write these things down somewhere

Thankyou katajara that’s very succinct and what I’m trying to make him see.

We are going to mediation next week, I know I don’t have to, but he is bypassing solicitors and has got the forms to take me straight to court, so I have agreed (with the mediator) to try this once.

I suspect it will only be once as well! He will then take me to court anyway I imagine.

You have to go to mediation
Or show that because of dv mediation isn't appropriate
So here best yo go to court
As k stars said
Stop allowing two hpurs notice!
It two hours every two weeks on Saturday in public space.
That s what you offering.
He doesn't turn u p tough but stop waii ng around for him
Take control
Dc need to know and if they know it's two hpurs every other Saturday it s easier to manage.
If dc want more,after few weeks you discuss then
If older dd is reluctant it s limited time and she knows when and where.
Honestly this man has been violent
Ypur dc are traumatised and getting therapy
Ypur case is to have regular contact starting small and supervised at the library or soft play. Review each month.
Your solicitor shoukd present this as reasonable.

I’m quite scared. I have good reason to believe that after we mediate next week he’s going to put court forms for contact straight in.
I’m really scared of being taken to court and how much it’s going to cost in solicitors fees.

Obviously if it’s straight to court there’s no likelihood of my solicitor managing to talk him into anything is there?

I’ve already had a big bill for seeing my solicitor.

I can do a lot of this myself can’t I? And save the solicitor for the big stuff?

I think the main thing is to be clear in your own head what contact you are prepared to facilitate to start with, given that DC have been and are in counselling in school and what they will be comfortable with, and the reasons for this.

You need to be rock solid in this because it is what you are going to argue for whether in mediation and court.

You do not need to put on here what that is, but have it written out for referring to in any conversations. Speak to the school staff who are working with your children and ask if there is anything you should know prior to discussing contact with their father, bearing in mind your childrens’ confidentiality.

Your solicitor will not be able to talk him out of court, no - and to some extent, nor should she if he wants things which are detrimental to your children’s well-being. However, you are going to mediation and you will be offering a reasonable way forward, so you can explain this to court. If he is not prepared to mediate, he will look unreasonable and court is premature at this stage.

And for all he might be threatening court, part of the reason is to scare you, and the best thing to do here is realise that court is not the worst thing in the world which could happen to you and DC. Because you are not obstructing contact, but you are looking for it to be safe for DC, manageable and a way to support DC given what they have experienced. And this cannot be achieved in a context where your ex is harassing and pressuring you (and locking up DC toys). So if he wants all his nastiness to come out in court, he is going the right way about it. So don’t be scared. The sun still comes up the day after you have been in court, and the threat of him taking you to court has lost its sting.

DS is signing baby shark next to me so my concentration is a bit shot. But hopefully that makes some sense.

the other thing I wanted to say is that you can say no in mediation and you do not have to agree to anything binding.

The important thing is that the mediator is aware of the DA background and that you have access to a break out room if needed. Make sure that you can arrive and leave at different times from him and you are not waiting in the same room beforehand. Close down anything which is emotional manipulation and keep focused on what you want to achieve (the arguments for which you will have written down and keep repeating to him in different words).

You’re quite a mine of information! Thankyou, you’ve worded that really well and really hit the nail in the head

How are you this morning?

I also thought Rights of Women might be helpful to contact for advice and support

Rights of women England and Wales

Scottish Women’s Rights Centre

My recollection is that it was them who put my in touch with the Women’s Aid support worker I had and their children’s worker. It is quite hard to get through (at least I found this) but they did call me back. Take all the support you can get.

Regarding the money/cost, it is quite scary, but my solicitor let me set up a standing order and pay in instalments. And whatever money you are legally entitled to from the marriage and maintenance, go for that too.

Urgh just....urgh.

Last night I was all fired up, I was going to get going on a divorce etc etc, but today as I’m shopping for food my predicament has hit me again and how he will absolutely not stop until he has what he wants from all this.

I often feel the onset of panic about it all. I think I will feel better once I get a job (no luck so far) and can apply for Universal credit safe in the knowledge I am already working and not of interest to them really. I think the whole issue of how far I’ve fallen because of my leaving doesn’t help me at all!

He’s already messaged about seeing them, I left it 20 mins and replied that we would be at x place on x day at x time and would see him there.

He won’t see them but I’m not going to argue again.

Just seeing the text gives me palpitations.

However, I did think last night, how much calmer it all is.
The tears over missing him have stopped because his refusal to see them has made him very out of sight out of mind and no one is feeling uncomfortable because it’s quite obvious that dad isn’t speaking to mum again.
We are just living a normal life with no massive highs and lows, which is good I think

Seeing texts from my ex still gives me palpitations as well, but they are at least very rare.

In terms of fallen, what do you mean? In terms of what you are able to afford to buy? We are absolutely rather poor compared to DC’s friends and I have a long list of repairs to do on the house, never have any money over at the end of the month, but it is -as you say - very peaceful.

You have actually come quite far, if you try to look at it horizontally, rather than vertically. There is obviously a way to go and yes, you will feel better once you have an income secured, but it is more like a different pathway, and a different horizon opening up.

Or if you have fallen, then you are getting up again.

And of course he will stop at some point, although i know the feeling that it will be never-ending. He will stop when it becomes clear he is not going to get what he wants. And he is not, because for every boundary you assert, you are sending out the message that he is not going to be able to steam roller over you.

Also, remember you know that you feel shit, or in a predicament or wobbly - he does not. What he is going to see is you being very clear and strong about what you are prepared to accept for DC. And a nice peaceful home life and a consistent and clear contact pattern is part of that.

You do need to press on with the divorce to help your financial position, though. And call Women’s Aid as they can also provide practical and emotional support. Maybe break it down into steps you are comfortable with and make a plan.

The Freedom Programme

Please take a look at this OP.

Then talk to a lawyer so you can initiate divorce proceedings.

And please, stop feeling so guilty. You are entitled to live free from emotional and physical abuse. Your DC are DC and don't understand what's been going on and even if they have some small grasp, most of them still want Mum and Dad to be together. That's just the way it is, but it doesn't mean you have to sacrifice your safety to make that happen.

Well, despite my best attempts it’s been a series of messages fucking me about over seeing them, asking for one day, then switching it, asking me to pay for entrance to something so he doesn’t have to pay, then blackmailing me that if he has to pay to see the kids through court then there’s no spare money for them.
I can’t deal with him, i tried to be reasonable and he’s just fucked me about and thrown accusations at me.

This is because he can mess with you. But once you get this organised via solicitor - you can set in stone times and dates for a whole year ahead rather than having to engage and be fucked over each time EOW. I would try to look at the money the solicitors cost as a positive investment in protecting your emotional health - so that he can’t drain / upset / distract you - which leaves you with emotional energy for your DCs.

X time at X place.

There is no point in getting into a protracted discussion about it.

Rinse and repeat.

Or if he keeps trying to engage and piss you about, tell him that you are sorry but this to-and fro- is not fair on the children and you look forward to sorting consistent arrangements in mediation.

Do not take the insults to heart. He is trying to get a reaction.

He’s kicked up a fuss over me being there. He’s picked an activity that I hate, simply because I hate it in the hopes I won’t do it.
I figure that I can sit on the side and watch I don’t actually need to be in there doing it.
I just don’t trust him to try to put ideas in their head, or if he’s going to twist it

However he is trying to strong arm me with threats of not coming unless I agree not to take part.
Basically if I do it he won’t

I think taking a book and sitting at the side with a cup of tea or coffee is a good idea. Make sure to be clear to the children that it is their time with dad and they should enjoy themselves. You are waiting in x place to take them home afterwards.

I guess what you do not want is an attempt by him to play happy families because you are there. You are there simply to facilitate contact.

So, been up all night again. I’m just so frustrated by yesterday’s texts over him seeing them.

It wouldn’t have mattered what day I offered, or what activities I offered, he was going to pick the opposite.

Although he looks very bad in some of the conversations you can see that he’s twisting me in knots, he can’t do x day, oh so you’re accommodating him well now he doesn’t want that day, he wants the original day, and he doesn’t want to do what you’ve suggested the kids want to do, unless you pay for them to do it etc, etc.

I went out last night for a couple of hours with friends, first time since all this happened and it was just miserable. My mum babysat and had to force me to go because I don’t feel like getting ready and doing things like that anymore, even though I equally hate being stuck indoors.

The whole night was him on a loop in my head and how the conversation had gone over seeing the kids and how he’s going to be with me when he sees the kids and how did we end up at this?

On the way home I had to drive past my old house and I just felt such a temptation to go and knock on the door and try to speak to him, I don’t miss my house but I kind of miss coming home after a night out to my house and my husband and telling him about the night. That’s obviously a bit rose tinted because a lot of the time he wasn’t speaking to me so it would actually be ages stumbling in the dark looking for the key hole because he had switched all the security and house lights off (remote house no street lamps) and I couldn’t see, followed by turning on the lights and seeing tat he had allowed the kids to just destroy the place while I was out and he’d left everything, dirty plates/cups/food for me to do the next day so I had a good hour of tidying up to do the next morning.
But either way, there are memories of coming home and sitting in bed having a laugh over the night.

I knew he’d be spiteful, even at the beginning when he made all his promises I still knew, but his spite over money is just staggering.
To all intents and purposes I have no income and we are living off what I had in my business and a bit of spare, he begrudges a single penny and genuinely believes that as I won’t come back home I have taken the decision to do it alone so therefore it’s down to me.
He’s willing to buy them clothes etc, but only if he gets to take them out alone, he “wants to help” but only if seeing them is the way he chooses, he’s just totally trying to hold me over a barrel, and tbh I hate him for it.
Who is willing to see their children go without when they have the means to make this a lot less painless for them? Who refuses to meet at the indoor play place unless you pay for it because they are “being taken advantage of” by being asked to pay £15 for them to get in? Who actually expects their exw to foot the cost for the kids dad to see them?

He’s working really hard to become the victim. The couple of times I have spoken to him on the phone he has accused me of becoming verbally aggressive, I’m not, I’m not swearing or yelling I’m just frustrated as we go in ever increasing circles and I’m frustrated over how far he will see me and the DCs fall in order to win.
Somewhere in his head he has decided he didn’t do anything and he’s actually the victim in all this.

When we have discussed why the DC don’t want to see him alone I’m described as “reliving a ground hog day” if I refer back to the catalyst for us leaving.

I’m sorry this is so long, it just helps me to get it all down sometimes

It’s odd really because I have a friend who was married for over 20 years, her husband upped and left her unexpectedly for an OW one Saturday morning.
She was furious from the start and was virtually divorcing him by lunchtime the same day! She can’t get why I’m not mad and asks how much more he needs to do to me before I am.

And I do end up asking myself that quite a lot. It’s like the chaos and energy it took to leave that night and the gumption I had to get in and get our stuff has all just left me.

I think if I didn’t have the DCs two days could pass without me realising I had been sitting staring into space!

I don’t really see a point where it’s going to get better or I feel better I really don’t.

I have so much worry, so fucking much worry.

My mum is here and is going soon, and I just want to beg her to stay a few days (she can’t) so I’m not alone again.

I’m so sick of being lonely, even with three DC I’m lonely.

I am going to take your points in turn and I might get interrupted as DC up and about.

He is tying you in knots, yes. That is why I think it is important to be clear in your own head what contact works, when and why it must be then and not x,y or z time. For example (and you do not need to explain this to him), you need time to regroup and the children need downtime before they go back to school, so Saturday is better than Sunday. Or whatever the reasons are why you suggest x and not y. You know the DC day to day life and have to make it work for them. Keep the focus on DC and what contact works for them. That is why I suggest being clear on that (for mediation, for court, for his texts which try to tie you in knots) and just repeat. Do not explain as he will then tie you in knots taking your explanation apart. Only practical communication. Contact at this place at this time.

He is tying you in knots over contact and then this monopolises your brain in the evening which is YOUR time with friends. That is him controlling you. You are spending your time wondering what is reasonable or unreasonable, instead of knowing you have made the best suggestion for DC and he is not willing to act in their best interests.

Same for the money, he is using it as a means of control. It is financial abuse. He is continuing to use money as a means of control now that you are out the marriage just as when you were in it. Yes, hate him for it but also he is against the law on this as he has to pay CMS, so you should be getting that sorted.

Him being the victim. There is a concept of DARVO in domestic abuse literature. Deny, Avoid, Reverse Victim and Offender. It is what perpetrators do. Try to recognise he is doing it and do not engage. You are getting frustrated I think because you know he is a controlling shit and he is using the children and money against you and those are reasons to be annoyed. It is what happens in control - you either react and get angry back or you submit. However, the way through is to learn not to react whilst not submitting. You really do not have to have these conversations with him.

In terms of ‘groundhog day’ to an extent, it is a response to trauma being caught in a loop, but also because you are caught in a situation which is indeed ‘groundhog day’ of you trying to get him to understand and be reasonable and him trying to mess with your head and reverse victim and offender in return. So something does need to change.

I suggest the change is you stop trying to explain. There are no words which will make him understand what he does not already understand. You are simply giving him rope to tie you in knots. Practical arrangements only.

Contact this weekend - be very clear you are there to facilitate contact with DC only and any discussion can wait to mediation. Repeat as necessary. No matter how he tries to engage you. Make sure you have a plan how to unwind and regroup with DC afterwards.

Does this make sense? I KNOW it is hard, but detaching from his mind games will help you see a bit more clearly to take the necessary steps to instruct a solicitor, claim CMS and put up boundaries so that he cannot mess with your head.

My final point for just now is that your friend’s situation and yours are very different. You have been a victim (survivor) of domestic abuse and coercive control and you need to unwind yourself from the spider’s web of that. It is a very different task to reacting to infidelity without the control. So do not compare yourself to her - or indeed let her make you feel you should be reacting in a different way. He is still controlling you, and her ex was not. You need a whole different set of strategies and resources.

Hence, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, get yourself to Women’s Aid and access support from people who know what it is like to have your head so messed with you would stare into space for two days. You are worth it.

That was a massive cross post.

You have had no sleep and you have to deal with ex this weekend. One step at a time, do not stare at a giant abyss of awfulness.

This man is still abusing you and is using the DC to abuse you.

You offer him fixed weekly contact at x place with you. "This is what the DC have agreed to and what I can facilitate" don't engage turn up at that time who gives a shit if he does or not.

Block all contact on everything and start the divorce.

Every interaction you have with him he abuses you so stop letting it happen. Only agree to shuttle mediation, let contact go to court so cafcass are involved.

You will feel much better once you create distance and headspace by blocking contact.