Is it me? Is it him? Does it matter?!

[SerenityFunCity]

In a relationship of about 9 months.

The main issue is that I'm finding it really difficult to trust him.

I suspect part of that comes from me - I find it difficult to trust anybody, and previously have chosen partners who are somewhat "safe" (as in, I didn't think they would ever cheat on me).

Current partner has a relationship history that is somewhat....colourful. He was married, had an affair, ended the marriage and saw the affair partner for another couple of years, cheated on her. Had a couple of short-ish (6 months) relationships since, which if not overlapping, were certainly very, very close together.

He has never given me any reason to suspect that he is/was/has cheated on me. But then, he has years of experience, so I doubt I would know even if he was.

He is currently working away, and I'm driving myself mad with "what if" thoughts. Of course, I can't know where he is every second of every day, but that leads me to wonder what he is doing, given that it would be pretty easy to cheat whilst he is away.

I suspect lots of people are going to reply with "why on earth are you bothering?", and believe me, I've wondered that myself. But things are really good when we are together, and I don't want to end something that is potentially a non problem, but actually all in my head, or a problem caused by my own issues.

Is it me, with trust issues?

Is it him, with his history?

Does it matter what is making me feel uneasy, when the fact that it is making me feel uneasy at all isn't great anyway?

My mum was abusive. I never knew where I stood with her. I was too young to make sense of anything, so the only thing that made sense was that it must be my fault - why else would somebody be so horrible to me? I am used to taking the blame for stuff that's not my fault. I'm used to trying harder. I have no sense of trusting my own thoughts or feelings or decisions or instincts because either I was told they were wrong, or they were wrong. Imagine having a mum who is enraged, angry, looks like she is going to hit you - your instinct tells you that you aren't safe, that she is angry - and when you ask her what the matter is, she says "nothing", and then ignores you, or tells you off, or hits you anyway. The mixed messages means that you can't trust what you see. You can't trust what you think is going on. My instincts never really got a chance to develop. I never managed to learn how to trust myself. I've not got much trust in others, either. Hence the struggle with this.

My ExH was abusive too. Not to the same extent. But gaslighting. Again, making me think that I was going mad. Stopping me from trusting my own mind.

It's not a good relationship because you don't feel safe. You feel a knot in the pit of your stomach, confused, upset, lonely and afraid. That's not what good relationships feel like

This made me cry. I have no idea what a good relationship does/should actually feel like.

hugs

I am so sorry. What happened to you is horrific. You didn't deserve any of it.

I understand why this relationship must be so agonizing for you. The truth is that your no 1 concern needs to be learning how to trust yourself. I know it's very very difficult but only developing those boundaries will bring you peace. No relationship can do that for you.

The model you've learned is that relationships are uncertain dangerous things and that's been reinforced by both your abusive ex and this new man. You're subconsciously attracted to him because on some level you can probably sense he is withholding and unreliable.

I don't even think he's important. What's more important is learning about yourself and beginning to trust yourself. I think you are stronger than you think. You are raising two children. You have a job, a home. You are smart and thoughtful and self aware. You can do this. You really can.

OP, bless you. I think it's great that you had a year to work on yourself. The hard truth, though, is that it frequently takes longer than that. Your formative experiences sound similar to mine; those take a lot of working through, in relationships and out of them. We make mistakes; we choose again; we make mistakes; we make a different choice; we work things through; repeat.

Please trust your intuition with this man. A man who you know is capable of cheating and being dishonest.

A man who, it appears, cannot be without a relationship.

A man who runs headlong into a new one with as much momentum as he can - promising so much, to himself as much as to you - to avoid having to turn around and look at what's snapping at his heels: all the baggage that he refuses to deal with, and that he thinks he dumps every time he moves on to another woman.

Again: trust your intuition. Your mother knew how powerful it was, I feel - hence destabilising your sense of self so that she remained in control.

But you're grown up now, and you can learn to trust it. It will serve you well.

Please get some CBT for your anxiety.
Even listening to some Julia Kristina vids on YouTube.

I found both excellent for dealing with anxiety.

Because anxiety lies.
I couldn't trust myself either.

But now I'm calm and can see clearly.
Now stuff I used to worry about either doesn't happen or I end up not being bothered by it.

With anxiety people often can't see the wood for the trees.

The intuition thing is a difficult one.

I do have some intuition. I can tell when my kids are having a hard day. When there is something wrong with one of them. When they aren't being truthful if I ask "what's the matter?" and they say "nothing". Is that intuition? Or just knowing someone well enough to know that they aren't being truthful? With them, I get a sense when they aren't ok, even when they say they are. And I know them well enough to know that I'm right, and I am usually (eventually) able to get to the bottom of it.

And yet, when in the same position with another adult, if I ask them "what is the matter?" and they respond "nothing", I have two choices. I can choose not to believe them, based on a hunch that may or may not be right. And maybe that is easier to do the better I know them. Or I can choose to believe them, because without any other evidence, maybe I'm wrong. And they are adults, so I'd hope they would tell me if there is a problem!

I suppose what I'm trying to say, is that if people deny that there is a problem, I'm left with the same mixed messages that I got from my mum. It's too confusing to work out what's going on, and I can't work out the truth. The words say everything is ok, the behaviour says it isn't. I can't work stuff out based on that.

Robin2323 I have had some CBT in the past for anxiety. A couple of rounds at it, really. In a way, it helped, in other ways it didn't. My anxiety isn't at this level all of the time. It's worse at the moment because he is away. It's been worse in the past when I had post natal depression. I guess it varies in intensity over time.

Thanks for the youtube suggestion - I'll have a look at that

And yet, when in the same position with another adult, if I ask them "what is the matter?" and they respond "nothing", I have two choices. I can choose not to believe them, based on a hunch that may or may not be right. And maybe that is easier to do the better I know them. Or I can choose to believe them, because without any other evidence, maybe I'm wrong. And they are adults, so I'd hope they would tell me if there is a problem!

I would do some reading on theory of mind development. I think you really need to focus on this because what's happening is that you are losing confidence in what is a huge part of social interaction - reading other people's intentions and desires. When someone gives you any kind of mixed message you immediately revert back to a childlike state - helpless in front of your cruel mother who deliberately invalidated any attempt to make sense of her behaviour.

So I think you've basically given up on trying to "understand" people and instead try to take people at face value. This is "easier" because you don't have to "guess" what they "really want". The problem is that you are still receiving all the non verbal cues and information that every person does and your brain is desperately trying to warn you but now you are exerting huge amounts of energy trying to suppress and blind yourself to it. You keep insisting you can't trust yourself but it's because you are afraid. You're afraid of that powerlessness. Of being at the mercy of not understanding.

One way to build confidence and overcome the fear is to through knowledge. Get into counselling but also parent yourself. Teach yourself this skill and you will be able to gain confidence in it. I know it sounds a bit odd but I'd look at books targeted towards learning theory of mind for children/adults with autism and start with the basics then work up to more sophisticated scenarios. Build your confidence at every phase.

You are spot on with your kids well done.
I'm the same and it's pretty much the same with adults
But as a pp said because of your mums cruel behaviour you have tried to shut down.
Maybe throw a bit of humour in there.

Next time ask yourself 'how would I react if a child said this?'

vuripadexo thanks for a really helpful post. You are right, the mixed messages completely stall me. It adds to further confusion down the line, because I might recognise that there is something wrong, and then the person insists there isn't. That means that for every time this happens, if they are insistent that there is nothing the matter, I must be wrong. It's a reinforcement that I can't trust my own judgement. Maybe I just need to get myself some better people in my life who are more honest!!!

My mum still does this. She is so passive aggressive. I've mostly gone NC with her because I can't deal with it anymore. So to whoever commented that when these situations get difficult I give up, maybe that's right. I've given up hope that my mum will ever change, and I've given up trying to make sense of her. Because I can't, and I find the whole interaction painful and draining.

In some ways, it feels like this relationship mirrors some of those interactions.

He has gone really quiet for the last few days. Sometimes he does this (I guess we all do sometimes), but I feel stuck as to know what to do about it. I suspect something is wrong. I feel as though asking if something is wrong will be perceived as me being needy. And so I don't say anything. Instead I just sit here and worry about it (and vent on here). I wrote a whole message to send to him asking him if he is ok, but I haven't been brave enough to send it.

I feel torn between being true to myself, and telling him that I'm worried/anxious/not ok, and risking whatever comes of that, and hiding that part of myself through worry that I'll be seen to be needy, or demanding, or really just a bit pathetic. I can see how fucked up that sounds.

Robin2323

Next time ask yourself 'how would I react if a child said this?'

I find that quite useful. I have one child with ASD, and he really struggles with his emotions and recognising them. Therefore, ironically, it takes me to recognise them in him and point them out to him "you seem sad today/you are very cross with me today/look how happy you are" etc. If a child were to say something that was at odds with their behaviour/facial expressions, I would probably point that out. In my own kids, anyway. I'm not sure how that would go down in an adult relationship. Maybe I should try?!

Also Robin - can I ask - I agree that I need to get some CBT to manage the anxiety. Does that mean you think it's just my anxiety that is fuelling this, rather than there being actually anything to worry about? (as in, as per the thread title, it's me, rather than him?)

I sent the text.

Now sitting here in a bubble of anxiety.

Gah.

@SerenityFunCity sending a virtual hand hold to you.

The fact that you're worrying about seeming pathetic is really sad. If you're in a secure relationship you should be able to tell your partner how you're feeling without being sneered at for 'seeming pathetic'. It's not as if you don't have a reason to be anxious because of what you know about him. It was very brave to face up to your insecurities and be honest about them with him.

But it clearly isn't just about him, as you're realising. I would also recommend more therapy to help you come to terms with the way your mum treated you growing up, as that was truly horrendous.

Relationships are complex. I don’t think it is ever 100% one person’s fault.

He responded to the message.

His (lengthy) response is that everything is ok, but he has heard me that I'm not feeling ok about things, and we will talk it over so he can work out what he can do better to try and make it easier for me.

So, I'm still kind of confused that when I thought things aren't ok, he says they are. And surely I can't really ask for a better response than the one he has just given me?

First well done for going nc with
Your m.
You haven't given up you've just stopped knocking your head against a brick wall.

The message back from dp
Is very good. Sounds like the sort of loving response a man would give his partner. Men like to fix. He may come back with suggestions and then expect it all to be fixed.
But only you can fix your a anxiety. And it can be managed by you.
To answer your question I think that anxiety lies and distorts things.
Doesn't mean you don't see red flags but that you don't make them up.

And the biggest play boy will settle down if he finds the right women.

I think you're focused on the anxiety because you think if you could just quiet your fears you could enjoy the relationship. What if the anxiety is your instinct screaming because you've ignored it so long?

Maybe I just need to get myself some better people in my life who are more honest!!!

I think what you are looking for is openness, not honesty. You need someone who is very open, stable and emotionally generous so that you feel safe around them. I don't think "honesty" is the key here. People can be honest but not much else. Also human beings will always have some complexity to them. You'll never get zero mixed messages from anyone.

If it's this hard now, how will it feel a couple of years down the line. Sorry but he sounds untrustworthy and immature.

I think you're focused on the anxiety because you think if you could just quiet your fears you could enjoy the relationship. What if the anxiety is your instinct screaming because you've ignored it so long?

Maybe you are right. But it's just another "what if...?" that I don't know the answer to.

I flit between wanting to give it all up and walk away, and wondering if that would just be a huge mistake that I would regret.

So, I'm still kind of confused that when I thought things aren't ok, he says they are. And surely I can't really ask for a better response than the one he has just given me?

Things being okay is an agreement between the two of you. He can't tell you that things are okay if you feel they aren't. A better response would be one that actually addressed the legitimate fears that you have.

But in his response he did say that they will (when they see each other) address the legitimate fears the OP has. Didn’t he? That’s how I read it?

We haven't discussed things in detail. And I still have no real idea of how to broach the subject of expressing my worry about his previous infidelity and whether that will be repeated. I don't know how to say (or even if I really mean) "I don't trust you" without that sounding really horrible. I'm not sure I even know what trust is.

what exactly did you text him and what exactly did he reply?

vuripadexo I'll summarise (both were lengthy, and would take forever to type).

Mine - I'm struggling with you being away. We've been pretty intense since the start of the relationship and this will by far be the longest we have spent apart since we got together. It's an adjustment; I'm struggling with it. I feel disconnected when we are apart and I rely a lot on seeing you to know that you are ok. I find it hard when apart to get a sense as to if you are ok or not. Text communication can so easily be misinterpreted. You've been quiet for a few days - is everything ok? We agreed we would both be honest, so let me know if there is anything troubling you. I don't expect you to be able to fix this, but I need you to know where I'm at.

Him - Everything is great. I miss you too. It's a difficult balance between balancing a new career and having to spend time apart in order to achieve that. I'm sorry you are finding it hard. I need to take that on board and see what I can do to change things so my life choices affect you less. This 3 months was experimental to know if I could do the work, but also as to how it would affect us. You are the most important thing in the world, I love you, I am so excited about all our plans together. Gaps in communication are when work gets busy. Thank you for telling me you aren't ok. I will see what I can do to make it better for you.

Serenity, I think it’s him.

His response sounds good, but of concern is whether he is capable of sounding so supportive even when he is preparing to jump ship. He can talk the talk, but he’s done it over and over with a string of women.

”The gaps in communication are when work gets busy.”

You say he ”has gone really quiet for the last few days. Sometimes he does this.” How frequently does he go incommunicado? Have you noticed a pattern? Although “work gets busy,” he could find time to call or text during lunch or evening, particularly as he normally texts you frequently.

This “going very quiet” detachment doesn’t match his enthusiastic attitude when in your presence. He shouldn’t need prompting to be consistent, and I wonder if it’s actually manipulation to keep you on the back foot. Perhaps he is really detaching and following his pattern, lining up the next unsuspecting woman.

Regarding his history of infidelity in back-to-back romances, this is due to weak boundaries, poor coping skills, and a sense of entitlement. You are wise to be concerned that he hasn’t done any work on himself. I wouldn’t trust such a person until he had done extensive work in counseling to investigate the underlying reasons for his behavior.

Your concerns are spot-on, Serenity. This man would not be for me.