Is A Snog Infidelity?

[daisydreams]

After claiming he was depressed but not enough to go to GPs Dh told me in late January that he'd "snogged" a colleague at the Xmas nite out. When I asked what was he thinking about, he said "Oh this feels nice". He never said sorry, did say that the depression was really guilt and that was the delay in telling me and he didn't want to upset me(!)He wont talk about it just wants things to go back to normal. I feel broken in two am I over-reacting?

Hi folks back for a little catch up. "Holier than thou and niaive", hmmmm, no Pan just different standards. Not better or worse, just different. I need to make sense of this inside my own framework. I got married because of many things, I loved the guy I believed in fidelity and religious beliefs. He knows all this. I never even went out with anyone else if they were already attached, I guess I couldn't be arsed with the hassle! Its good to see that folk think drunk/depression is no excuse. I do want to work things through but how long do I wait for him to talk to me?

I think having thrown this at you and seen your reaction, he is now trying to be evasive in the hope that grass will just grow over the issue. I don't believe that a time is coming where he will feel ready to talk about it IYSWIM

Can you talk to a professional about this, someone who could help you?

My ex-h snogged a female friend of his when we were engaged. It took him a couple of days to tell me & he eventually did it while we were in bed

I forgave him & married him (obviously as he's my ex-h) but it was hard as after the initial remorse he got a bit 'so what' about it - was even annoyed when I said no he couldn't invite her to our wedding!

A few years later, the day after I gave birth to dd2, he went to a party & spent the night on a sofa, under a duvet, with another woman. This while I'm lying in the maternity hospital. He claimed nothing happened so again I forgave him.

Another few years later he has an affair with what I thought was my best friend. That straw finally broke the camel's back. I left him & then he accused me of ruining his life by leaving & taking the kids - I was supposed to wait 'til the affair was over & take him back.

I'm married again now & if dh ever so much as kissed someone else, that would be it. Over. IME once someone has cheated for the first time, that just makes it easier to go on & do it again.

I'm really sorry for what you're going through DaisyDreams - I know how horrible it is. You're the only person who knows just how much this man means to you so it is entirely your decision. Just make sure you do what's right for you.

I think I agree with MNs who think a snog is a very intimate thing to do. A quick smack on the lips/cheek, yeah Ok but the way he (eventually) told me was quite graphic. Why did he tell me? Sometimes I wish he hadn't but he did. Speak to you all later BBFN

tempestuos-'I have snogged someone. Been with partner 15 years, never been unfaithful, never even contemplated it. I had my own sort of midlife crisis when I was on my way out of pnd, had managed to lose weight and felt stunning. '

you have snogged somebody else so you have been unfaithful.and please dont use PND as an excuse for cheating on your oh.i would hate to be tarred with the same brush as somebody like that.

pan-i dont think theres anything naive about knowing what you would find unacceptable in a relationship.in my mind,if somebody loves you then they wouldnt even want to look at anybody else.that is how i feel towards my dp.i have been through enough shit in my life,been with enough bastards and been enough of a bitch to other men ive had relationships with to know what i am talking about now.

daisydreams-im sorry.this issue comes up on MN over and over again and i really dont understand why so many people think its ok to cheat but as soon as you mention violence the 'leave the bastard' brigade come out.surely any cheating is a form of emotional abuse in itself?

Divasatrop you are very funny, totally lacking in logic, but funny.

How is ME cheating (if indeed a snog is cheating) after getting to the end of the tunnel after MY pnd tarring YOU with any brush?

I am sure you have other brushes to tarr youself with, lol.

I offered the OP a perspective from somebody who has gone through quite a a lot, in terms of soulsearching, confusion (and a fair bit of lust) and have NOT given into complete temptation, put her family first, seen the error of her ways and NOT inflicted the hearthache on my partner by telling. Not proud, but still very much in love with partner.

depression and booze do do strange things to people.

would i feel like DH had had an affair if he kissed someone? No.

would i feel sad and hurt? Yes.
and if he'd told me like OP's had, with the same response, i'd feel lost and angry too.

...if it was a drunken snog as a one off at a Christmas party then i would tend to forgive and forget BUT if it looks as if a relationship is developing between your DH and his "snogette" then I would be more concerned as to where this will lead to...

btw, if George Clooney pinned me up against a wall at a drunken party I would be unable to resist...but WOULD be able to keep it at snoggling only level and a bit of fun and nothing more (I wish !!)

true-i am totally lacking in logic,but i dont think logic comes into it when it comes to love.

i dont believe you can cheat on somebody you are in love with.if you cheat on somebody then you are obviously not in love with them.

yes,depression can make you act out of character,and being drunk can make you lose your inhibitions,but i dont believe depression can stop you from loving somebody.and in my eyes you only cheat if you no longer love the person you are with.

of course,if it makes you feel better to blame your PND for doing something like that,and helps you to live with yourself,then fine,thats up to you.

i just cant see how cheating is any different to any other form of abuse.

Daisy,
your partner was brave in telling you, and I think you should see that as a sign that he wants to talk and put things right, you say he wants things to go back to normal, can you try find out what is going on?

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has snogged somebody else, from the standpoint that this was not just a drunken snog (because that is a different and not so serious matter), realizing you have feelings for somebody else than your partner is not necessarily fun, it can be heartbraking, and love is not logical as Divastrop said. He snogged her, he did not have sex with her. He told you, and he wants things to go back to normal, I take that as he wants things to go back to BEFORE he snogged her.

Sure he can be blamed for allowing himself to fancy her (if he did), and for snogging her, but it is up to you and him what you do about it.

In my case, my marriage came out a lot stronger as I had to put considerable time and effort into figuring out WHY it happened, what was going wrong in my life for somebody else to be able to enter my thoughts, and thereafter time and effort in talking to my partner about what we could do to make our relationship and our lives better. So, yes, I did cheat (if snogging is cheating, and I think in my case it can be classified as that as it was NOT just a drunken kiss) but the experience made me realize what I value in my marriage, what sort of marriage I want to have, and how to better take time with my partner and communicate with him, and finally put things behind me. I dont recommend snogging as a way of improving your marriage, but how you deal with the aftermath can improve your relationship.

You cant just sit there alone and feel sorry for yourself and wonder why, you need to get him to talk. At least you need to get him to THINK and ponder these issues. And you may need some councilling to put you and him and your relationhip back on track.

havent had time to read thread but will do later.i had to think about this 2 weeks ago on night out when a very pissed dh snogged girl of 16 whilst standing next to me.

tempestuous-excellent post!
i apologise for my PND comment in my last post,it was personal and wrong,and i have no right to judge you.

moljam-and .that is bang out of order,what did you do about it?

i dont think either of them would have lived to tell the tale if it were me.

Daisy - I think if it was me the comments about how nice the other woman is would be more worrying than the drunken snog. It shows he's been thinking about her and likes her.

Its fine to fancy other people IMO as long as you don't act on it. I think he's being very hurtful to you by telling you how nice and easy to get on with this woman is.

I think you need to take some action now to prevent it happening again or leading to anything more substantial. I would take steps to ensure you know where he is at all times and would watch out for changes in behaviour such as suddenly taking more interest in his apprearance or unexplained late nights at the office.

I would certainly have loud alarm bells ringing and would "ground" him and keep a very close eye and , yes, you need to talk. Someone suggested earlier getting a friend to mediate which sounds like a good idea if he finds it difficult to talk.

[big hugs]

Well Dh left work early today telling his boss he had to sort things out or look for accommodation. He phoned and asked to talk. So we talked for around 3 hours and will continue talking when dcs are in bed. He produced a bouquet of roses but surprised me by really opening up. Must ask friend to consider relationship counselling as a career! He apologised repeatedly and admitted he was grovelling for another chance. I was very wary and said I was afraid of waiting for things to grind to a halt once more. So we talked through various strategies to improve communication. He said he wanted me to point out when things were sliding but I said only partially. He has to take responsibility for his behaviour and monitor it himself. I repeatedly asked if there was anything I could improve - but nothing. I've pointed out that I'll be watching him like a hawk and looking for fault, but hopefully with a lot of reassurance my paranoia will recede. He admits its a tall order but he's willing to try. He says he is scared. So am I. But I do want this relationship to work.We've agreed that if it does go pear shaped again we're going to Relate and try as best we can. Cheers tempestous sound advice. Cheers one and all the support has been invaluable.

daisydreams - I hope you can forgive him as i dont think its worth losing your marriage over. I also hope he realises teh hurt he's caused you.

FWIW though if my dh snogged someone on a drunken night out I wouldbnt be too put out but that is just me .

your dh is a very lucky man to have such a forgiving dw like you,and i hope he appreciates what he has and doesnt look elsewhere again.

divastrop a big bit of me wishes I was more like you in nature! Your posts have certainly made me think that side of me isn't so mad after all

i'm glad he decided you were worth fighting for and at last showed some remorse.
good luck

I am stunned by this thread. I didn't know so many insecure women existed! It's unbelievable that counselling and ending the marriage should be discussed about a snog at a Christmas party. I have posted this thread to a friend of mine and she said, 'I didn't think there were women like that anymore'.

C'mon girls - get a grip. Do you know anything about the male pysche? It was a bit of fun. End of. A lot of men get up to a lot worse than that, and they don't think any the less of their wives for it. I know quite a lot about this because I work for a women's website where we research a lot of this stuff, and also in my career, I've been the only women in large groups of men going abroad on conferences and so on - and I see what goes on. But they love their wives and children.

Please relax and enjoy your husbands - being so uptight and hysterical is deeply unattactive, and ultimately that's what will destroy a marriage, not a snog.

Bishop - does that mean because it's in men's psyche to behave like this, we should just turn a blind eye? I would rather be labelled as neurotic than say that my DH having a snog with someone else didn't matter.

Well obviously you wouldn't want your husband to be snogging other women all the time, but a snog at a Christmas party when you're a bit tipsy is not something to get upset about. I feel it is the proverbial mountain out of molehill.

My husband is a musician and travels the world and with the 'groupie' element stuff goes on. So what? It doesn't mean that he loves me less. This is a nothing incident and should not be rumbling on for six months.

Bishop you and your friend are obviously most understanding wives/girlfriends/partners. Does this coolness with snogging go both ways?

Your attitude - male psyche, men do worse things than this and still love their wives and children is totally prehistoric unless they are Ok with their partners doing the same.

Bishop, I think YOUR opinion is quite ancient to be honest. Gone are the days where men where sowing their wild oats and us womenfolk just had to accept it. I think most women have learnt to expect more from their men than just that, and in addition, that men just have to have their fun and cant stop their dicks from doing the talking is both outdated and offencive to most men, in my humble opinion.

How you handle your musician husband is of no relevance to the op.

Oh dear, as an agnostic with a severe streak of what can only be termed as 'Catholic Guilt' (no offence intended to any RCs, it's the only way I can describe it) if a snog is infidelity then I'm off to hell

While married I have

Snogged my DH's work colleague, we were good friends, I did fancy him, he confessed he felt the same over a pint and it just went a bit too far (but not that far IYKWIM)

And I got a bit too close to a mate at work, again we were good friends, best mates even He was up for the whole shebang but I wouldn't as he was married with kids. (I never considered my marriage!) We were good mates for ages but, it went wrong (he was screwing around on his DW). Though the intention was there, I fought it and didn't act on it. I am proud to say that my virtue was only sullied by extensive tonsil hockey.

I have since confessed both incidents to DH who has been remarkably understanding of my indiscretions.

Since my pregnancy I have grown up a lot and don't feel the need to ever do that again. I am fairly embarrased by my actions now. I'm just pleased I didn't chuck everything away for a quick meaningless bon

Pardon the pun, Bishop, but is it not a slippery slope?

In my heady pre-marriage days I recall
that a snog was usually accompanied by
some more or less heavy petting.
Would that be ok, too?
Where would you draw the line?

Interesting POV, though.