Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here! (Thread 3)

[ChangerOfNameAspieThread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Some resources from the threads so far:
www.theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/
I've probably missed some, but will try to gather them later and put in a comment for the next thread!

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

*years, not tears, but those years often involved many tears!

Haven't read the first thread, just this one. Came across it and clicked because I thought it might be useful for my DH but don't think it is as we luckily have very few issues compared to some of these mentioned. I agree with someone who mentioned it's about compatability.

Apologies if my questions irritated you, I was curious and didn't mean to make you feel obligated to answer!

@seline my son may never be independent, so I’m probably going to be supporting him until I die. However, I have worked hard to teach him to be a good friend to others. I think everyone is individual, my son may well be more vulnerable to other people taking advantage. I’d be concerned for him. His father, DP, is a functioning adult with many more advantages, sailed through a lot because iof his high intelligence, earning power, physically very able etc. Very different.

@Seline I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren’t being goady with your first question, and I enjoyed chatting with you.

But come on, now you’re being disingenuous and dickish with your second ‘innocent’ question and your reply. You didnt get the rise or succeed in making people feel shamed in quite the way you wanted so you came back for a second pop. This despite the OP of this thread spelling out about how it would be appreciated if people with Aspergers/ASD did not come on here and question why posters are being critical.

You know damn well that you were being provocative and judging the people here. Well I’m going to judge you - with respect it doesn’t say much about your emotional intelligence to comprehend, without it being explained to you, that there is a huge difference between the behaviour of, and communication with, someone who has known for a long time they have ASD and accepts it, and someone who grew up not knowing and doesn’t accept it. It is not a case of “aspies” being, as you cutely put it, “annoying”. It is a case of the relentlessness of some of the behaviour or communication styles some of the women (and odd man) here have to put up with being soul- and relationship- destroying.

My dc1 has ASD diagnosed last year. The diagnosis has been a huge help in both us and them understanding them and being able to play to their strengths and navigate their differences.

And btw, note I say they have ASD and not that they’re “an aspie”. Neither you nor your son are diagnosed but if either of you become so, you won’t be diagnosed with Aspergers as the diagnosis no longer exists and hasn’t for some time. I get the impression you’re not actually that well informed which is why I’m telling you.

Typical I made a crucial typo ... should be “NOT to comprehend”. Seriously, the fact that you’ve had to have basic and easy to figure out concepts like “I didn’t know an adult man had Aspergers when we met given not that many of our generation was diagnosed in childhood” spelled out to you, suggests you’re either not that intelligent or you were being deliberately goady.

ThisWay lmao, okay. I wasn't actually here to start an argument but as you so kindly decided to, I'll oblige.

I wasn't being goady at all, I was asking how people emotionally distinguish between having negative feelings in one instance but unconditional loving ones in another. I haven't criticised anyone anywhere.

As for how informed I am. I was told I likely had Aspergers at age 13 and diagnosed ADHD a little later, I decided not to pursue professional dx for Aspergers because there's no treatment and it isn't so much a problem as a difference and it's more useful for my own personal understanding than medical purposes. ADHD is different on the other hand because there are several treatments available to counteract the negative symptoms (my preference is Concerta, not that it matters). I use Aspergers for myself because that is what I was "off record" dx with, if you will. While the name has officially changes, the condition itself remains the same and it's far easier to understand what Aspergers is than ASD, especially when conversing with people who don't have it because rightly or wrongly Aspergers has more awareness.

I didn't come here to argue originally, as I said, I clicked originally because I thought my DH may find it useful but I quickly realised it was for more unhappy relationships rather than tips for minor miscommunication. I was genuinely curious as NTs are interesting to me because I don't intuitively understand them and I enjoy discovering what makes people tick and how they think. That's all. As I said, no one is obligated to answer me and no offence was meant.

ThisWay ironically you've taken my question literally. Obviously they won't know it has a name, but the traits don't stop existing just because you don't know the collection of them has an official name. That person is the same person whether you know they've got Aspergers or not.

I think the value of this thread is the shared recognition that for some of us, our partners autistic traits, put a huge strain on the relationship. For me and others, this means our relationship is near to collapse, we have a lot of stress, and yet everyone who has posted here is looking for a way to understand, to share how others have coped and to ultimately have a better relationship.

That is positive.

I have had a very tough time in my relationship mostly because of DPs autistic traits, he knows he has a very low emotional understanding, is quite controlling, and blames me for a lot of his weaknesses.

It is very helpful for me to read this thread and see that..

• I am not alone
• many have the same experience
• many of the things I’ve tried, like counseling, have not gone well and I was at a loss to understand why. Reading this specific thread has been a relief, others have had similar! I wish I’d known this sooner
• there are tips on how to cope, and how to navigate my way through.

I have some autistic type traits too, lots of sensory issues, anxiety and need for time for myself. DP has also found that hard at times. He also finds my social ease both beneficial and annoying.

I also have found it very hard having a severe ASD child with DP. DP totally denied it, and was very rigid with him. The opposite of what our son needs, he needs me to be very accommodating, super sensitive, patient and very aware of his needs. It’s exhausting to bear the brunt of this care alone.

Seline no I didn’t take your question literally -if I had taken you literally then in my post when I answered your question I would have just said we didn’t know he had it.

But I explained that I’d put the traits down to miscommunication, or to him being wilfully obtuse - the subtext being, which no I didn’t spell out - that I thought things could change or improve because the traits weren’t fixed. Strongly suspecting or finding out that your partner is on the spectrum is a thudding realisation that to a certain extent, they can’t help it.

By comparing to yourself, you’re not imo getting a real difference between your situation and that of the majority of this thread’s regular posters. I’m pretty sure that you’re female. Most of the partners described here are male. As you’re so educated about ASD, you’ll know of course that there’s a big diffrrrnce between how it manifests in females as opposed to makes, just like with ADHD, and how some of these differences are societal.

@saline this thread may be of interest to your partner, it’s up to him not to you to judge that, given it’s for partners of people With Aspergers. The nature of this thread - the third in a series - is very clearly set out in the first post. I’m not convinced you read it properly or else you did and chose to ignore it.

Saying in essence why did you marry someone with Aspergers if you don’t like how they are, and don’t you feel bad about the fact someone may speak about your children like this IS goady. You could have explored these issues in a much more empathetic and genuinely curious way.

ThisWay yes, I'm female and I know that makes a difference as many females don't even get diagnosed as we can blend in far better (a double edged sword but that's another issue).

In your case, I understand what you're saying about thinking the traits were non permanent problems caused by something outside the individual and that learning it's a part of them that won't change is hard to accept.

I've shown it him because I wondered if he agreed with some of the comments here for our relationship. He said one in particular stood out about someone's husband getting overly invested in a parking dispute as I can sometimes refuse to back down from relatively petty arguments, but that most of the other stuff didn't really apply.

I didn't word it like that. I meant it must be really difficult to know the negative side of Aspergers by being on the receiving end of it but also seeing your children struggle and knowing how hard it is for them, and then knowing they have the potential to struggle with relationships later on.

Sorry if it came across as insulting because it really wasn't meant to.

@saline I think for me this is a very useful thread as it is asking for peoples experience of having a relationship with someone with autistic traits. I don’t find your posts helpful because you have not got this experience. It’s helpful to have a space that is not dominated by other agendas, and I think your agenda is different and would suit a different thread.

Thiswaydown

And btw, note I say they have ASD and not that they’re “an aspie”. Neither you nor your son are diagnosed but if either of you become so, you won’t be diagnosed with Aspergers as the diagnosis no longer exists and hasn’t for some time. I get the impression you’re not actually that well informed which is why I’m telling you.

Actually it is you that is not that well informed as Asperger’s does still exist as as a diagnosis in ICD-10 which is the most commonly used diagnostic manual in the UK. ICD-11, which is due for release later this year, is expected to align more with DSM-5 so maybe it will disappear then.

See here. www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/criteria-changes.aspx

But there is a real lack of understanding about autism on this thread highlighted in many posts but particularly by the recent statement by ChangerOfName who naively thinks that if a person receives a diagnosis of an ASD during their childhood this will mean all will be straightforward for them in adulthood. You really, really do not understand autism if you think that’s the case. It is a disability. 80% of autistic people (including me) suffer from significant MH problems. In a recent study of females with Autism over 80% had been sexually abused because they were too naive to realise the person was taking advantage of them (this applies to me too) Very few (

@AutisticHedghog source for your statistic that “under 20% of Aspies” have a full time job please. Do you have a full time job btw?

I’m very sorry to hear you have been sexually assaulted. You have my empathy. fWIW, although I’m not autistic I have also been sexually assaulted; unfortunately the percentage of women - NT or otherwise - who have been assaulted or harassed is depressingly high.

I’ll respond further tomorrow. In the meantime, your services are required on a thread about Jamon. Someone suggested that the OP’s DH’s “ham anxiety” may be an indicator he has autism. The OP said they’d done an online diagnostic test for autism and her DH had presented highly. I’m sure they’d appreciate your views.

AutisticHedgehog Thanks. I get the impression that some people don't like people with Aspergers asking questions or speaking on this thread, or like us at all really. The comment about "we aren't here to educate people with aspergers" is odd. I have no problem educating people on it, because I genuinely want to help people understand. I don't think it's helpful to anyone to not want to explain things or be willing to engage.

Everyone is welcome on this thread to ask questions & offer helpful perspectives but please do remember this is for people with ASD/Aspergers partners who are struggling. We may not always use perfect terminology but ultimately we love/d our partners and are experiencing relationship problems and looking for help & advice from people who have been through the same experience. We may not always seem kind about our partners but sometimes we need to be able to let out frustrations on here.

I for one am desperately sad about the potential end of my marriage. I’m seeking counselling to understand what has happened and to try & find coping strategies for my relationship. I wanted joint counselling but H refuses (and he is always right & reasonable). I have DC & wouldn’t walk out on my marriage on a whim but I DO have to consider my future, my mental health & my happiness. I find a lot of support in this thread.

Here is the 2016 study on autism and employment www.autism.org.uk/get-involved/media-centre/news/2016-10-27-employment-gap.aspx

They found that only 16% of autistic adults were in FT employment. I do not work FT.

Yes the sexual assault statistics are appalling for all women.

Thank you for alerting me to the other thread. I will take a look but I get extremely anxious about posting (that may surprise you) so it may be I have to quietly seethe instead.

@Selina i understand that this thread is for people who are in difficult and unhappy relationships. So i do get the rational of not wanting the thread to turn into “educating” autistic people. For me it’s just upsetting when Asperger’s is repeatedly used (across MN) as the explanation of some pretty appalling behaviour by partners (especially when most have no formal diagnosis). I genuinely believe that everyone posting here has a very difficult relationship and that they should seek support, but I don’t think that AS is always the reason. Sadly there are abusive or inadequate partners Everywhere. They are abusive as they are arseholes. They may be neurodiverse or they may be neurotypical. Whatever, they should not be tolerated and the abused partner should most definitely leave.

When I worked I didn't work FT either. Too much interacting with people involved and I was permanently exhausted and upset.

I get that if the thread was taken over by people asking things it would ruin the purpose of it, and I agree that Aspergers gets blamed for a lot of crappy attitudes on here when it's not always the reason.

It baffles me why you would want to come on a thread oozing pain from everybody who posts and aim to make them feel worse.

Probably because most of us spend our lives being insulted and abused by people who struggle to understand us? As for self policing...that's every day life for us. If we speak our minds, we're rude, blunt, cold, awkward. We can't just talk about our interests like NTs can because we aren't interested in the same things you are usually. I get that your relationships are difficult but this "NTs are the true oppressed people" vibe I'm getting is wholly inaccurate. You get to walk around in a world designed for you. We do not.

Again, I'm not here for an argument, but I can definitely see why some people with Aspergers would be offended by these posts.

We have discussed in an earlier thread why people with Aspergers would be upset about what our experiences are. But this thread isn't not here to upset people with Aspergers. It exists because people without Aspergers love dearly (or did) someone with Aspergers (HFA if you like) and in order to facilitate the person they love, they've suffered - and still often are - a lot.

Now, if the case is that people with Aspergers are suffering on the other side of this - and I don't know, but I can categorically tell you that my DH isn't as he tells me that, behaves consistently with that as a truth and had/has no idea what I'm talking about when I start to discuss the reasons I'm not - please, please go and support each other. Do it. Just not here.

Just because you suffer does not give you the right to make others suffer. We're here because we don't want to suffer, but crucially, we don't want those we love to suffer either.

It's ok if you don't understand that. Just accept you don't. And go somewhere you feel comfortable.

It amazes me that if there's any criticism of someone with Aspergers that comes across as being generalised we get the "If you know one person with autism you know one person with autism" line. Yet in the next breath we are told that individual's personal experience with autism and are expected to accept it as a universal autism experience.

To be honest, we'd be within our rights to ask for some posts here to be deleted. They're deliberately aimed at upsetting a group of already upset people. But I hope nobody reports (or if MN mods are looking that they don't delete). It's good for people to see exactly the dynamic we're talking about when we say we're not understood by partners, that things get twisted, over rationalised and our feelings utterly disregarded to the point that they don't exist.

And it's not the victim Olympus's here either. As a group, NOBODY knows we exist, outside specialised circles. Our daily reality is invisible not only to the person we live with, but in society in general. That does not mean that society treats people in any position of the Austin spectrum well. And nobody t any point in these threads so far (this is the 3rd) has even hinted otherwise.

Not everything is black and white. And that is the whole problem.

*Autism spectrum! Not quite sure what the Austin spectrum is! :)

*Sorty double negation at the beginning obviously should be single.

I hate posting from phones!

Seline offended or hurt??

Because they are not the same.
I can see why you would be hurt. It’s never nice to hear hat some of your actions, even if you can’t help them, hurt the people you love.
Offended is stupid. It’s like if I was been offended because someone was saying that ‘Caroline’ is a twat and I had assumed that it meant all women, including myself were twats. It would clearly not be the case and wouod be a case of generalising when it’s not the case.

Hedgehog fwiw, I have now spent nearly 20 years wondering if H doing was a twat or ‘just’ being himself and autistic.
My OWN conclusion is that is sometimes he is probably a twat, sometimes it’s autism and sometimes it’s a bit of both.
Except it’s still impossible for me to actually KNOW for sure if it’s one or the other. In part because he never ever talks about what’s going on in his head.
But it’s really interesting that you believe that if an ASD person is hurtful then it’s becquse they are twats.
Do you think it’s the reality or it’s what you wouod like it to be? Do you think you CAN evaluate whether someone on the spectrum can be hurtful or hard to live with as someone on the spectrum yourself?

It reminds me of white people commenting about an incident happening to a black person and saying it’s not racist when the person who is black is saying it is. Who is right? I suspect we should all listen to the black person because they live that reality day in and day out.
In a case of an Nt/ASD relationship, it thinks it’s fair for ASD people to believe the NT person and how it feels to them (rather than assume they are there to ‘get’ ASD People or are disabling etc...) because THEY are living it everyday.
Just as it is fair for NT people to listen to ASD people too but THEY are the only ones to know what’s it’s like to live on the spectrum.

So please, I appreciate it’s hard for people with ASD. I’m sure you can get some support for yourself (and rant at how it’s crap that NT people don’t acomdate you, do xxx and yyy).
And leave us alone getting our little bit of support for ourselves too.

changer you really are not reading my posts properly. My post above contains the following:

1. Correction of the statement that Asperger’s does not exist as a diagnosis anymore

1. Challenging your comment about autistic children will not have same problems as late/undiagnosed adults. Do you still stand by your statement “Children with Aspergers growing up today, as has been previously pointed out, are diagnosed. Therefore they cannot get to adulthood without some idea that other people view the world differently to them. The existence of that information alone, as they develop, will make all the difference. Never mind being able to tell their future partners that they will understand each other and some aspects of life very very differently from the get go, will mean they're not in this situation.”

1. To say that a thread where partners have problems with marriage is absolutely fine. What is not fine is to self-diagnose autism as it is a very hard condition to diagnose. Autistic traits do not equal autism. It is very unfair to label every bad behaviour being due to autism.

And as for you attempt to make me out to be some sort of weirdo for screen shotting deleted posts, I had copied several posts (including Non-deleted ones which are still there for the entire world to see) as I wanted to discuss them with my therapist to understand if I had been inappropriate. I always prepare something in writing for each of my therapy sessions as I communicate far better in writing that verbally. I keep all of these prepared notes so by default I still have the deleted comments.

I know you will not pay one bit of attention to what I have written as you are determined to put me in a box of “typical Asperger black and what cannot be wrong” type. I know you will continue to say that I am denying everyone has problems and it’s all the NT partner’s fault. I’m not. But these types of thread do both both people in relationships with autistic people, as well as autistic people themselves a massive disservice if they allow common myths about autism to be perpetuated. Both parties in the relationship need recognition, support and understanding.

I repeat, I hope all of you find peaceful solutions to you current situations.