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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here! (Thread 3)

816 replies

ChangerOfNameAspieThread · 29/12/2018 14:44

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Some resources from the threads so far:
www.theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/
I've probably missed some, but will try to gather them later and put in a comment for the next thread!

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

OP posts:
Haffiana · 01/03/2019 00:31

@NorfolkRattle I think that you completely misunderstood my post. I was quoting someone who said that about Maxine Aston et al and who was therefore saying that our posts/points of view are not valid.

I was making the point that in a thread where people feel utterly bloody invisible because their views/feelings/existence was being denied on a daily basis by their partner, someone (the person I quoted) was coming on here to do exactly the same to them all over again.

It happens every now and then - someone pops in to proclaim that personal experiences that people post here 'must be wrong because there is no proper evidence and it isn't anything to do with ASD' etc etc.

Sometimes we will even be told that people here are utterly unsympathetic to/prejudiced against/ aren't making allowances for those who are not NT, when of course nothing could be further from the truth - as evidenced by so many on here who have stayed unhappily married for decades because they cannot bear to destroy the life of the person who has effectively destroyed them but who also genuinely does not and cannot ever understand that.

I am sort of glad of such posts attacking those trying to find help in this thread. This is because these sorts of posts encapsulate exactly what ASD partners put up with all the time. They are a perfection of QED. Could not be more QED, in fact.

MNHQ doesn't ever delete them (and that is another story) so they stand as an unwitting, unknowing, perfect testament.

PinaColada1 · 01/03/2019 00:53

That is true. Some of the posts here criticizing us struggling with ASD partners focus on points of ideology, of phrasing, etc. and ignore the raw huge emotional pain that many of us are trying to communicate. It feels familiar. We may not always communicate it well, but most posts seem to have tried so hard to make it work. I for one probably still love my partner. I have bent myself double trying to save our relationship.

That loss of family life is devastating. I do mourn for what I never really had. I have snatched moments, walks in the park with DP and our son, meal times, funny moments, playing in the garden in summer. But they don’t make up a solid picture. Mixed in were that he refused to marry me after promising we would, he wouldn’t let me choose anything for the house, I couldn’t have an opinion so too many arguments, he never goes out with me, as a couple, or as a family, to anywhere. Except sometimes the park.

There is hanging a big photo in my mums house, one of all of her children, our spouses, our kids. It was for her special birthday and we made a big effort to all be in one place to take it. DS noticed it and asked where he was. I told him in my tummy as I was pregnant at the time. He then asked where was Daddy, because of course, this very special event, DP had decided not to come. DS was very confused as everyone else’s partner was there. He asked if Daddy was working, if he was ill. I couldn’t tell him why. He just didn’t want to, that the reason.

I looked at myself in the photo, and realized I should have got out then. There I was, at the beginning of our sons life, on my own. It was never going to change.

Moffa · 01/03/2019 07:18

Pina I think we live very parallel lives.

I had a long, difficult labour with DD, ended up in theatre and was traumatic for me. I was still in the recovery room when he had to rush off to ‘let the dogs out’ (we live near loads of family members- it would have been easy to call someone to do it). At the time I was too knackered/drugged to think, but in retrospect it makes me so sad. He didn’t even cuddle her properly.

For my mums big birthday we booked a local photographer to take some family pictures on the beach. He is in a few of them but only because he turned up all agitated, stayed for 10 minutes and then rushed back to work.

There are so many events/incidents like this.

The truth hurts.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/03/2019 07:27

I could tell many of the same stories Moffa.

H has just advised that he doesn't have any feelings for me at all, they are all dead. As far as he is concerned I have destroyed everything, he feels nothing. I am the one with the problem, he is perfectly fine and I am the one with issues.

Sometimes, when I am at home with him I start to believe it but I am sure it isn't me.

He keeps spitting out the story of when I asked him to leave for the afternoon when my parents were coming for lunch - yes I did because he was barely speaking to me and I didn't want to subject my 80 year old parents to the atmosphere within our home with him in it.

Feeling crap today, DD was subdued in the car yesterday, I just need to hold my bottle and this to be over.

NorfolkRattle · 01/03/2019 08:15

Haffiana. I apologise. I'm not sure how I misconstrued what you were saying ,except to say that I am very raw at the moment.

Yes, this thread is very revealing in all sorts of ways. Many testimonies from people whose partners are on the spectrum. (I'm sure mine is but he has never been tested, never shown the remote desire to be tested in spite of our older son diagnosed with autistic traits and our younger son diagnosed with Autism plus Severe/Complex Learning Disability. DH's parents are definitely on the spectrum, both with PhDs, both with an appalling lack of emotional and social skills and a total lack of awareness: superior, snobbish, almost unbelievably crass, both on a very short fuse and in the grip of all sorts of obsessions and compulsions. Cringeworthy at best but tragic too.)

And yes, revealing of the way quite a few folk who ARE on the spectrum insist on gatecrashing, making it all about them, demanding that we take the thread down, that it is "ableist", etc.

I do know where you are coming from. How frustrating it is when all kinds of folk who don't have our experience decide that it is us (the partners) who are being unreasonable, nasty, fascistic, even. My younger son is 20 now, still at home; when he was a youngster, his paediatrician of all people gave me that little lecture re my DH. ("You ought to be more understanding." My husband had physically attacked me! Thinking back, this and various other things leads me to strongly suspect that Unpleasant Paediatrician was on the spectrum herself.

My best wishes to you and everyone here who is seeking support. I'm glad I found the thread.

Misty9 · 01/03/2019 09:27

I found an article and it so precisely summarised how I experience our marriage, despite dh being a perfectly nice man and great father, I thought it might help others:

"When a neurotypical woman is married to a man who has the behaviors associated with autism spectrum (ASD), several things typically occur. Over the course of her marriage, she experiences herself as gradually disappearing. In the place of her former self emerges a person she barely recognizes. She is so lonely. So hurt. So … angry. She feels isolated, as her social connections have gradually diminished. She feels misunderstood by everyone who knows her, so she has learned not to talk about her “problems.” She starts to feels crazy. She also feels guilty, because her husband is a good man.

What has happened to these women? It’s difficult to see the process while it is going on, just as it is difficult to see the effects of water drops on granite minute by minute. But changes that are negligible day to day are incontrovertible over the long term. With time, granite that once held the characteristics of a unique natural form is visibly reduced to a smooth, monolithic surface.

Instead of drops of water, women married to men on the spectrum are struck by pain from unrelenting moments of being reflected inaccurately in the place they look most often for reassurance: the eyes of their husbands. And over time, they begin to interpret what is reflected to them as a reliable representation. They try to alter their own perspective, their own aspirations, their hopes and dreams, to bring them into line so they are consistent with the way their husbands treat them. The lonely process of love and guilt and shame rips them apart.

It starts like this: a man on the spectrum (most often undiagnosed) marries a woman for all the qualities he admires, but once the wedding is over, those very qualities become the things that spark the most unsettling experiences for him. She is outgoing socially, has interesting things to talk about, and is engaged in intriguing professional activities. She is well-regarded, confident, and kind.

For her part, she finds his thoughtful attention and his stability comforting. She is also drawn to what she takes to be his reticence. She admires his ability to maintain his focus so intently and to be so successful in his work.

To a man on the spectrum, however, living with a person who has these qualities may be predictably uncomfortable. Where he seeks equilibrium in order to feel he understands the world around him, she seeks—and represents—novelty, as a result of the very curiosity that made her the woman he initially admired.

His constant anxiety related to living in what feels like an alien culture is soothed by predictability. This would be facilitated by the presence of a partner who complies with his view of reality. This is not because he sets out to manipulate her. It is because his fundamental concepts are threatened by hers. His anxiety grows with his fear of doing “something wrong” because he is never quite confident about what the “right thing to do” might be.

From her perspective, his thoughtful attention may have disappeared the very day of the wedding. He quickly became self-involved and aloof. The stability she admired slowly shows itself to be profound inflexibility. The reticence does not point to the underlying wisdom she assumed was present; she now sees that it comes from his not knowing what to do or say. And his inability to focus on her has come to mean she exists outside his field of interest, where he is apparently content to relegate her."

From: here although I don't relate to the birthday part of it.

GaudaofEda · 01/03/2019 12:19

Norfolk

If you stand for the right to speak, you shouldn’t try to suppress freedom of expressions of others.

You are being very controlling
How do you mean? What power do I have and how and whom do I control?
I am not controlling at all. I am expressing my opinion. I have every right to express it. It is absolutely relevant and pertinent to the thread.
I say what has to be said, this thread needs balance and alternative perspectives.

Your post suggests that you are very fast to use the word “controlling” when you hear something you don’t like, perhaps seeing it in places where it does not exists, in too many places?

This is a thread that lots of people with Asperger partners are finding helpful.
We don’t know that really, do we? It might be helpful for some people, it might also be very unhelpful for a larger number of people and very unhelpful for attitudes to ASC in society due to spreading of misleading stereotypes and prejudices, which would affect children on the spectrum.
It is clearly helpful for a number of people on this thread for most of whom the relationship is very unhappy and broken for complicated reasons specific to their circumstances. Most of their partners are not even diagnosed and might not have Asperger at all, or not as the main/real reasons for difficulties.

There are hundreds of thousands of people with family members on autistic spectrum and there would be a range of views and experiences.
This thread and certainly you cannot claim you represent them all or them as a group.
The thread does not represent those in happy and successful relationships, like me. Huge number of people would find it difficult to post here given the level of emotion and hostility to alternative opinions. I did because I feel this thread needs balance and an alternative perspective and I stand by this.

We have a right to speak. I'm so sick of this kind of c#**@p.
I don’t know who told you not to speak and what they told you exactly. I certainly never did, have you listened? You do not respond to what is actually said, but do react to what is not said, have you noticed?

I didn't understand what do you designate as "this kind of c#@p"?

I am sorry you feel sick, but then you need to address that, not attack me. You did not engage with any of the points I made, you do not engage the argument.

Stop trying to bully
I am not trying to bully. I express my opinion on an important topic and I have every right to do that and other people have every right to hear the whole range of opinions including mine.

It is not for you to butt in
Could you clarify why can’t I post here?

NorfolkRattle · 01/03/2019 12:35

Yes, this response of yours illustrates the points I was making.

This is a thread for people whose partners have Asperger's. Are you such a person? That's why what you are doing, repeatedly, is "butting in." It is intended as a support group, it doesn't claim to be an information manual nor has it claimed to be representing EVERYONE who has a partner with Asperger's.

You can't see the issue, you have just shown that you can't see it. This is not all about you, it is for people who have Asperger partners. Perhaps you are not TRYING to bully but that is how you are coming over.

I'm not engaging with you further because there is no point.

AutisticHedgehog · 01/03/2019 12:58

Thank you, Gauda. Brilliantly put.

PinaColada1 · 01/03/2019 13:07

Most of their partners are not even diagnosed and might not have Asperger at all, or not as the main/real reasons for difficulties.

Please do not invalidate my experiences this way. I do not question whether you have ASD. I don’t mind other views, suggestions. I do mind being told to effectively shut up and my experiences are made up. I’m bringing up a child with ASD as are many others. I have committed my life to helping him, and given up everything in order to do this. I love my son deeply and am his protector and champion. I support other parents of ASD children and campaign to make their lives better. So don’t preach from a pulpit.

I’m not going to argue further with anyone. I have enough of this in my own life where my energy is protecting my family unit.

My son with special needs really deserves to have the best, most responsive and nurturing environment I can provide. I do feel that it is so much better now, that I’ve stopped taking the blame for my DPs inability to forge a trusting bond with us all. At one point he became very divisive, with his family. I had to bring myself out of that invisible space I’d been put and carve out a more positive environment. DP has calmed down a lot, he’s looking sad mostly these days. He’s kinder to me day to day. He also realizes I’ve really helped our son, and that he’s difficult to live with. He won’t budge on breaking up though, I think because he’s said he feels terrible at how rubbish a partner he’s been to me. Yet he can’t quite take full responsibility, as he will then say, oh but if we were better matched he wouldn’t have been like that.

Gosh recognize a lot in other people’s statements. @moffa I do recognize a lot. You are nearly there! And that article is very interesting @misty. I have been relegated. He’s even had a FB for the last 3 years and not added me! Everybody else. His acquaintance from work, his gym buddy, his barber! I’m hidden in plain sight.

NorfolkRattle · 01/03/2019 13:46

Yes, PinaColada, it is the invalidating that I too find so unpleasant.

And the lecturing. People who have Asperger partners, people who in many cases also have children on the spectrum, being told repeatedly that we don't know enough about it.

best wishes to you and your son.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/03/2019 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Moffa · 01/03/2019 16:25

Box what did you say? Always intrigued by a deleted post!

Misty - I’ve read that article & it resonates so much.

Norfolk & Pina - I don’t think it’s even worth trying to explain yourself to the thread attackers. They are not experiencing life as we are so their POV are irrelevant to us. I just ignore them.

NorfolkRattle · 01/03/2019 16:44

Moffa, you are right. I've tried this before, on other threads, from time to time. Definition of flogging a dead horse, really. Am aware, of course, that there ARE people on the spectrum who have a better understanding of what we are saying (not so far along the spectrum?). . .but these are not the types of people who attack threads.

Moffa · 01/03/2019 17:28

Exactly. And frankly, if asked, my H would proclaim to be happily married......

Daftasabroom · 01/03/2019 17:56

Very, outing but as my ASC son put it recently "it's not mathematical integration we struggle with, sometimes it's social integration". He taking the pi$$ out of himself, but all same....

AutisticHedgehog · 01/03/2019 18:01

They are not experiencing life as we are so their POV are irrelevant to us. I just ignore them

Perhaps this gives an insight as to why your relationship didn’t work out of this is the approach you take?

Today 16:44 NorfolkRattle

Am aware, of course, that there ARE people on the spectrum who have a better understanding of what we are saying (not so far along the spectrum?

You say this and yet you don’t think this is an ableist thread? You do understand the spectrum is not linear?

This kind of comment reveals all sorts of gaps in your knowledge to me but this thread has no need for facts - I was told that very clearly before.

To be clear:

  1. I understand you are all in difficult relationships with partners who sound abusive
  1. You absolutely have the right to vent/offload and share experiences with each other

BUT

It’s not appropriate to ascribe every symptom, trait or incident to autism. Which several posters on this thread - and the previous threads - absolutely have done. This is what I object to. The worst of these include

  • rape
  • inability to look after children
  • bullying, controlling and manipulating partners
  • being racist and homophobic

(See first thread - ALL of these have been levelled at autistic partners)

But the worst for me, are the two mothers who have said they either wish their son’s partner would “run for the hills” or that their son doesn’t ever meet anyone - because autistic people are just that bad.

I hope you all find the peace and tranquillity you need.

PinaColada1 · 01/03/2019 18:30

There are some points I’d agree with @hedgehog however I do think 99% posters are not here to vilify their partners or their Asd traits. Intention is everything. 99% are trying to either fix their relationships or to understand how to understand how they have collapsed.

I guess it does get to me, if someone says I’m just an NT person using my unhappy relationship to have a go at my partners ASD traits. Because a) that’s an assumption, I think I have asd traits too and b) I spend every single day supporting asd on a personal and wider level. I’ll be doing that for the rest of my life.

My DPs asd traits are a barrier to him being an effective parent. That is just how it is. I’m not generalizing to others and never have. He has had great trouble adjusting and recognizing that our son has ASD, and will defer his parenting to others and lacks judgement about this. He recognizes that his ASD traits are one (not all) but the main cause of damage in our relationship, and have blinded him about what our son needs. He is controlling too, so is my son! I think it is one of their common asd traits. Again I’m not generalizing, but it’s my experience. I am anxious and way too sensitive, in a sensory way so I know I have things about me that have been hard to deal with too.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/03/2019 18:39

This is what I object to

Why on earth do you object, this thread really isn't about you and yours it is about those of us who are supporting each other.

GaudaofEda · 01/03/2019 19:02

Misty9 Fri 01-Mar-19 09:27:52
The article you quote from the FAAAS / Cassandra informed therapist in US
www.goodtherapy.org/blog/married-with-undiagnosed-autism-why-women-who-leave-lose-twice-0420164

In the comments below the article have you noticed therapist's comments?

Sarah Swenson, MA, LMHC
April 20th, 2016 at 4:14 PM
Hello, Mari. It sounds as if you might want to consider codependence as a possibility for understanding the situation you describe. Sometimes, individuals give too much for this reason.

AutisticHedgehog · 01/03/2019 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

boxlikeamarchhare · 01/03/2019 19:15

Deeply offensive just about sums up how I feel about your intervention here Hedgehog so at least we agree on something.

I don’t have communication issues but my HFA husband does.

AutisticHedgehog · 01/03/2019 19:20

Exactly what have I said that is deeply offensive?

I’ve acknowledged that posters here are in very difficult, possibly abusive, relationships

I acknowledged that they should be able to discuss these on a public forum.

My objection is to the posts which describe autistic people offensively and inaccurately. If you find that deeply offensive then that’s your problem, not mine.

GaudaofEda · 01/03/2019 19:36

Are you such a person?
I am sorry, but maybe you might reflect and observe that there is a real problem with listening and responding to what is really said (written) as opposed to what is not?

This is a thread for people whose partners have Asperger's.
is contradictory to
nor has it claimed to be representing EVERYONE who has a partner with Asperger's.
These are mutually exclusive statements.

As a matter of fact the thread title and the OP does imply people 'married to partner with Asperger' as group, that is everyone.

In addition this is a public forum open to general public who might want to inform themselves because the title appear to be a source of information about a partnership with people with Asperger in general.

it doesn't claim to be an information manual
The OP also purports to inform about the 'dynamic of a relationship' of partners with an individual with Asperger's as a group, in general.

So it does purports to be a manual, which as you recognise it is not.

This is exactly my point about changing the name of the thread, narrowing it down to pinpoint exactly the nature of and tone of conversation and specific circumstances of the group it represents, so that the broader group of people with partners and general public could understand the context of this and assess the relevance of advice.

That's why what you are doing, repeatedly, is "butting in."
What do you mean? I am not forcing my entrance into your private dwelling.

This is a public forum open to everyone, to a range of opinion and all people and opinions within the law are perfectly entitled to be expressed here.

Why are you reacting so defensively to anything that does not echo what you feel?

What do you mean by validation?

Bluebellforest1 · 01/03/2019 21:49

Yet again, as we are in our homes and on this forum, we are being gaslighted.

Swipe left for the next trending thread