DC picking on DH

[mikado1]

This is quite a worrying turn of events and I'd really appreciate some insight/views. To give some background, DH grew up with a v authoritarian father who did slap, expected perfect behaviour, parents' emotions prioritised etc. and has found the tough side of parenting tough, has been to counselling re anger and 80℅ of time is calm but other times is moody/critical/angry - a mix of these say. Tends to take normal children's behaviour personally.

Lately I notice the 2dc, also v well behaved 80℅ of time, wind him up and delight in annoying him.. I don't like it but I see dh is either v cross or permissive... It's hard to witness and obviously I step in and remind them of behaviour or simply distract them. He doesn't want to hear my view/advice and sees them completely wrong rather than my MO which is what can I do to change things . I've not heard of this before but it feels v off for some reason so said I would post for some views.

I'd say he gets angry every day at the moment... I would also say that DS1 v aware that I'm not a bit happy about it and I know that undermines us both as such. I have said it's effected my feelings. Believe it or not his parents appear so loving, to one another and their dc, tho the father about controlling about minor things but everyone openly laughs about it. He once before we married said there a lot of door slamming growing up and I was shocked but thought no more about it. My home was the type where if my father slammed a door it was an accident and he'd apologise for it so I'm definitely an extreme of another type!

When not angry he can be grumpy, critical and... Attentive and kind and loving. I'd actually prefer a complete louse. It would be easier. If I had two v easy children, I might not even have discovered this side, but ds1 tho a lovely nature and v loving showed his determination around 2.5 and sparks flew then. Nothing awful but nor like our v v placid DNs, for example, so a challenge for him.

its one thing getting pissed off with kids being arses, but its quite another to use children being pains, as some sort of proof that they are terrible people, and that you are too, and that hes some sort of fucking victim of you all.

ALL children can be arseholes at times. It isnt always easy to keep your cool, but my god, he sounds more exhausting than the kids. Wheres the fun?

Fun is so limited tbh. He sighs and swears under his breath if ds1 grumbling about but he stomps down the stairs himself each morning, more often than not doesn't say good morning to us and bangs things around if messy.

He sounds like a misery to live with. Just because he's making a tiny bit of effort that means he's 80% shouty instead of 100% shouty doesn't mean you have to accept it. You are entitled to say that it's just not good enough.

It sounds like an awful way to live tbh

Little kids will behave like this

And when they get bigger.... what will happen then? My DSs (teens) love winding their dad up, or me. It is what kids do.in the safety of their home.

It sounds like you are trying to fix your dh, but is that even possible...?

I hope I’m wrong about this, but one coping technique for living with someone who is inconsistent and often angry, is trying to provoke the anger. When children feel uncertain about what reaction they can get, but can cause a particular reaction, then they may keep doing it (even if it’s the most negative reaction, because the uncertainty of waiting for it to appear and not knowing when it will happen, is worse).

So their “provoking” in this case would be a sign of extreme distress at his emotional abuse of them.

Unfortunately you cannot teach a child that being angry is naughty, by constantly being angry over every little thing.

I think you know it is time to leave, for their sake. He needs anger management classes to learn how to express his frustrations in constructive ways. This really isn’t normal at all.

I hope you can find the strength to realise that you have tried already. He hasn’t engaged with anything you have suggested (occasionally doing the right thing is not enough, that’s like saying “well I only sometimes abuse them now, isn’t that what you want?”), he isn’t doing the work.

My xh was an angry man, the children are so much happier since we left. My youngest was the same age as your youngest.

The lessons they are learning now will follow them throughout their lives - and you can see the affect they have had on your dh. It’s time to say enough is enough. Best of luck.

Thank you all. That's interesting/frightening about purposely provoking. It's like two people in a way, for example, he's extremely supportive of me and my parents who are going through that hard time of life as they age, I am actually v sad for him as inside I believe he's a good person but unfortunately his upbringing messed up his ability to deal with anything other than everything going perfectly.. I feel I've said it so many times about the impact on them..

This morning ds1 jumped across bed again when I was getting dressed, we just continued to chat and headed down the stairs happily...it literally wasn't an issue! We had a calm, happy morning and school drop off. It's v hard to think if I'm not around it's shouting and stress... And similarly if we were to split.

if you split and he did it then, then its just his relationship with them hes fucking up, not the whole family

Ok thanks branleuse

They are testing his boundaries because he's inconsistent with them - sometimes permissive, sometimes angry. i remember doing this at a veyr young age with my own dad. We were terrified of him but even more terrified of neve rlknowing which way he'd turn: roar with laughter and tickle us or scream and hit us. Looking back I think we were testing for consistency so we could work out how not to wind him up long term, though it probably seemed the opposite.

Thanks for that insight.. I had an utterly gentle dad so just can't imagine it. Another thing that would have riled him this morning - ds robbed ds2's hat, out it on and ran, I have chase and caught him- he then grabbed my phone from pocket and ran, all laughing and shrieking, all good humoured and over within a minute. It would have been so different with him. I think it comes down to control.

If you leave him now, it might be enough of a wake up call that he'll actually change. But if you wait, you'll get damaged children and probably a full blown abuser ex.

I did bedtime last night do I said id leave him to it tonight, both DC share so mess around at times. Well he's already got not overly cross but he's now ignoring it completely and seething that I'm not looking after it!

He then went up, blew his top, ds1 ended up in tears and I had to go pour oil on troubled waters again... Why can't he see that, apart from anything, shouting and stomping around, simply doesn't work?!!

Why can't you see that he's not going to change?

Why are you still waiting? Every day you wait your children are being more damaged by his behaviour.

I think maybe because my friends and I often say how we had a bad day and lost it or the dc were driving them mad etc and as well as agreeing he needs to improve, he's also said my expectation is unrealistic, my patience is not the norm etc and I suppose that narrative has got in on me.. he said ds1 was lying there about what happened/why he was crying and the sad thing is I don't even know if I can believe him..

You need to ask him to leave. Running off with a hat, or jumping on a bed, your children sound completely normal, not challenging. From the outside his behaviour sounds horrible. Not saying good morning, huffing and banging things about, would be serious deal breakers for me. He is behaving like a child and needs to be the adult

I said everything I could.... And he initially said they can do anything and are never punished, I asked him what he'd prefer to do, he had no answer, I went on about all that's been said here and he sat in silence looking pretty down... And later left the room.

Out if interest how much attention does he give them when they are well behaved?
I just wonder if it an attention seeking thing.

Plenty, he did lots with them earlier but it's when they react at all off he reacts to that. Eg he sat doing homework with ds --who got annoyed when he spelt something wrong, and he jumped up telling him to calm down etc.. I don't know I think he's just not in tune with the trials and tribulations of it all. But tbf yes, they do get a good bit of positive attention, or even neutral attention.

He told me last night that the fact we've had no sex life since this all started is abuse..I told him v clearly it was not and I left the room. He said no wonder he is angry. I told him we would discuss it tonight.

He's not going to listen. That was a very calculated response from him. Using the word 'abuse'. Making you the bad guy and him the victim.

You're not having sex with him because at the moment, you're probably not attracted to him due to his behaviour and quite rightly, you're just not interested in him. Every marriage goes through that; it is not abuse. Not at all. But he's used that word because he wants to be the victim. He wants to pretend he's been abused so he can excuse his behaviour.

Why did you think he is going to listen to you when he quite clearly thinks he's perfect and you're the problem?

You need to get your kids away from him and he must only have supervised contact whilst he attends anger management.

Thank you. I was glad I held my tongue, it was midnight and I slept better away in another room. Tonight I will tell him that sex stopped after his anger became a problem and that being ok with anger because of his own 'needs' and taking it out on two small children is not ok. I think this is the end. I feel so lost.