DC picking on DH

[mikado1]

This is quite a worrying turn of events and I'd really appreciate some insight/views. To give some background, DH grew up with a v authoritarian father who did slap, expected perfect behaviour, parents' emotions prioritised etc. and has found the tough side of parenting tough, has been to counselling re anger and 80℅ of time is calm but other times is moody/critical/angry - a mix of these say. Tends to take normal children's behaviour personally.

Lately I notice the 2dc, also v well behaved 80℅ of time, wind him up and delight in annoying him.. I don't like it but I see dh is either v cross or permissive... It's hard to witness and obviously I step in and remind them of behaviour or simply distract them. He doesn't want to hear my view/advice and sees them completely wrong rather than my MO which is what can I do to change things . I've not heard of this before but it feels v off for some reason so said I would post for some views.

He feels criticised by you if you discuss it. He feels victimised by a three year old playing. Sounds like youre the only capable adult

He says I'm holding him to ridiculous standards and I'm not seeing the huge effort he's making. I've been saying for literally years, it's not personal, it's not an emergency and you're the adult. I really think and I'll never now know, that his overreactions have actually increased and prolonged this behaviour as well as my 6yo's rages... :/

Well it started off this morning, ds jumping onto bed from floor, dh going bananas, younger DC then cross with dh and trying to slap him :( Dh getting even crosser) This ds is particularly cooperative and gentle so I hate to see him going this way. Then dh starting totally ranting and raving and saying how awful they were and I said to walk away that he was the adult and he had s few choice words for me then.. complete disaster of a morning. He said I'm too kind to them. DS 6y got into such a state with all the aggro last night he was actually so distressed and I've noticed he's chewing hid sl3eves a lot.

You've said 'this DC is particularly cooperative and gentle' but also talked about them slapping, and there was an earlier reference to the kids poking and slapping him as they went by. What happens when they do this? Attempting to hit is something I have always treated very seriously but it feels like you're glossing over that here because of your husband. Sure, he needs to really work on being calm around them, but are they really also in need of some clear boundaries for some things?

If that’s the behaviour he’s modelling to them then it’s going to be very hard to teach them appropriate ways to stay calm and behave appropriately. Bit hard to say “stay calm, treat people nicely” when Daddy rages and shouts at the drop of a hat.

I’m not surprised it’s distressing your 6yo. Was your DH saying how awful they were in front of them? This is probably fixable on his part if he wants to, parenting techniques are something you can learn, but if he doesn’t want to and refuses to do anything about it then it’s really going to damage your sons.

Well this is why I'm so shocked with ds2, he's the type you'd be worried about being a doormat, and I agree slapping a big no, no. Unfortunately dh starts shouting about consequences-taking away Christmas presents in a v out of control way and it has no effect. I think I'll have to try to get him to talk about some kind of plan, even though he's resisting discussion.

Yes he was saying it in front of them, really ranting. It's that typical thing of shouting at someone to calm down, it's almost laughable and I'm terrified that damage is already done. He's the tor to sigh and curse under his breath if the bin has not been changed, for example. 'Everytging is difficult then.

He sounds like he generally has anger/ frustration issues. This probably wasn’t so obvious to you before you had DC as you’d have worked out ways to keep him calm - most likely without even realising you were soaking up his anger / stress and defusing situations.

Your DC are reacting to the anger they can sense from him.

My ex was like this and this is why he is an ex. I found myself becoming cross too, and constantly stressed because I’d be waiting for the next incident. I couldn’t relax, as soon as DC started being loud, annoying, etc I’d be on edge.

If he won’t address his issues you have two options - leave him and give the DC a calm environment with you. Or stay and give them an anxious environment. Either one is tough.

Personally, life is so much better without ex. Now he is on his own he is better at being calmer. The DC are happier in my home as they can be themselves.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing bad behaviour here. The slapping is yes, and that you need to send them for a time out for. But pretend sword fighting with a lollipop stick? Jumping on the bed in the morning? That's just kids. You obviously want to teach them the right way to go about things, but that's not 'bad' it's just 'child'. They learn, but they will have fun and mess around whilst doing it. You just keep teaching.

You don't have a child problem here. You have a husband problem. He can't handle children. It's not just that he can't handle bad behaviour. He simply can't handle kids. What's he going to do when their behaviour actually is really bad?

Other than the slapping, they've not done anything wrong but he's terrorising them. You need to go to family counselling or you need to tell him to leave and sort himself out.

Unfortunately, people who grew up in an abusive or angry household are more likely to then treat their own kids with the same anger.... and that's what he is doing.

It is not your children's job to learn to walk on eggshells so they don't set daddy off. It is his job to control himself. If he can't do that them he needs to leave... or you do.

Whilst they absolutely should not hit and that needs to be dealt with appropriately. I'm not sure what they're doing so wrong. In the sense that every 3 & 6 year old messes about a bit, does daft things, and can push every button a parent has got. It's the job of the parent to deal with the silliness at an appropriate level, and not to expect the children to change because the parent can't handle them. I feel quite sorry for your children if Daddy flies off the handle ranting and raving when he doesn't like their behaviour. It's also quite difficult to expect them not to be cross (and they're expressing it by hitting) if they don't like something when Daddy seemingly gets cross when he doesn't like something (not saying he hits them of course, but the rage).

Your husband is a bad parent, in part due to his upbringing, but he is refusing to work on it and that's all his fault. He runs the very real risk of becoming abusive like his own father, in fact there is some low level emotional abuse going on, with the rages and the critical comments. They are 3 and 6 for God's sake.

I would lose all love and respect for a partner who treated our children like this. Personally I think it's ultimatum time, he does a parenting course (and maybe couples counselling to discuss the parenting issue - but it would need to be a good one) or he leaves. You have to be prepared to follow through, though.

Most importantly you need to do more to protect and stand up for your children. It's sounds as if you're afraid of his rages too and you're walking on eggshells a bit.

There are some good articles here, I doubt he'll read them but I found them helpful
www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/Peaceful_Parenting

There's also Family Lives, they have a helpline, online parenting course and advice on their website.

so he couldnt just say "no, we dont hit" and hold their hands

I love aha parenting,thanks for those. He does say 'we'll don't hit' but hands on grabbed tight and he shouts it angrily. Advice is v sobering but I appreciate it.

So here I am again, reporting back because an outside view means a lot as in the moment it all seems chaotic and dh seems to think I'm utterly weak and permissive. He doesn't seem to reflect on the fact that they don't go on like this to me. Again it was jumping across the bed while he was trying to make it. No they shouldn't be doing it, well it was just ds1, and again with the massive angry and annoyed reaction. It's not right I know but I also know that ds1 etc is much more likely to do something if he sees a huge reaction to it, angry or not.. dh doesn't see this and again got really mad, lifting them out of the room while shouting and slamming the door when they tried to get back in - a finger could so easily have been caught. We usually read stories on our bed which is why we were all there and I then took them out and got ds2 dressed bed and teeth brushed but still he said I did nothing to help. He then shouted they do whatever they want which really maddens me, a. Because it doesn't help them hearing that and 2. I don't allow them do plenty and manage to hold the limit without losing my cool (most of the time!) I know if I point out his reaction increases the whole thing he'll say 'Oh yes it's all my fault'. There was tears and shouting back from DCs, all so unnecessary and avoidable.

Just leave him

Stop letting your kids think this is ok, they will think it's ok to behave like him

IT ISN'T

Thanks AnotherEmma , I appreciate the response. I suppose I'm v much second guessing myself because he does a huge amount for them/us and because obviously it's absolutely huge to break up the family unit. I do know that ds1 can be especially challenging and his behaviour earlier had been atrocious but again dh rose to the bait and it all escalated within seconds. I also worry that I'm making excuses and/or that I have read so much h myself on child development etc that I'm expecting too much so I'm thrown when it comes to judging the situation.

It would be ok if he admitted his behaviour was wrong and was committed to improving it. It would be ok if he showed any respect to you as a parent and willingness to learn from or at least listen to you. But he's blowing up at you and the children and he sees nothing wrong with it. He things everyone is in the wrong but himself. You can't work with that. The only tiny chance that he might change his attitude is if you leave and mean it. But I don't think you should leave in the hope that he should change. I think you should leave because he's not a good husband or father.

At times he does admit it, and like I said early on, he says I don't notice huge efforts at other challenging times; in fact I do but it has to be more consistent imo. I feel he's chipping away at their connection and thus making it harder to pull them on course.. he has gone for counselling, he has started how to talk.. But.. it's a long time since this started and originally brought about counselling, I feel I need a line/a date or something so I know I've given it, and he's given it his best shot. As you can imagine it's massively effected our marriage and my feelings for him.

What would he give as an example of making a huge effort? For me, for example, that might be repeating myself calmly for the nth time rather than losing it and shouting. Or saying 'shoes!' to a child who still hasn't put their shoes on after the fifth time of asking, rather than going on a long diatribe about 'how many times do I have to ask, why don't you ever listen, am I talking to myself here' (read somewhere that this is just far more effective). Can he point to any examples like that? What does he see as really making an effort?

Yes he probably can point to instances like that... That's why it's so hard. I feel like I need to jot down the wins and losses of each challenging situation but vv often it it goes on and on, he flips, not always angry but impatient and intolerant.. but because he does also go the right way about it, I'm lying here thinking if I say enough is enough, it will feel like I'm making this enormous decision for our family on the back of the row St bedtime. Sometimes I'd love to record it so we could watch it or give it to someone else to watch! Or book ds1 in with a play therapist so they can tell me he finds it hard to self regulate because of his father's behaviour.

Those diatribes are too familiar to me by the way and I can't stand them! So demoralising. I firmly believe all children are doing the best they can do while he sees them as 'getting away with things' etc. We're chalk and cheese.

He needs to take responsibility.

He’s showing the dcs that he cannot control his temper and is losing control. Is it any wonder that they piss about with him?

You should be honest with him that how he treats the dcs affects your feelings for him and he needs to change.

He should stop looking for people to blame and accept what he can do to change.

So how much of the time does he manage to stay calm and how much of the time are you getting the anger and long diatribes? Because if he was really making this huge effort, it should be calm more of the time than not. I think that ought to be the norm rather than the product of him really working hard to be a good parent. And from what you've posted the calm responses sound more like the exception.