I've just given Dh an ultimatum

[darksideofthemooncup]

I will try to be brief. Been together for 18 years, married for 10 one Dd who is nearly 11.
Throughout our relationship he has been self employed, he has always worked in the same industry and is very knowledgeable about the product he sells. However, he is a fucking terrible business man, every single incarnation of his business has fucked up and lost people money, including my family.
We rent and have absolutely no savings, I had to take out an IVA as we lived on credit for so long. I have no idea how he isn't bankrupt,
Over the years I have taken second jobs to keep our heads above water and after our dd was born he was insistent that I worked with him which I hated.
2 years ago our business was forced into administration owing hundreds of thousands of pounds, I immediately got a job in a supermarket but my Dh somehow convinced my father to invest 40k in him to help him start again. (I really didn't want my DF to do this but my Dh can be very convincing)
The inevitable happened and the money is gone, my Df is furious (rightly so) and I am stuck in the middle of all of it.
My Dh also has a very expensive hobby that he refuses to give up.
We live within catchment of an excellent secondary school, I'm no longer at the supermarket but have a part time job that has prospects so tonight I told him if our dd gets into the school and I go full time in my job in September and things haven't changed for him (ie he gets a job) I'm off.
His response? He doesn't want to work for some massive company and make them money and it would be really hard for him to have to answer to a boss.
I think I have my answer don't I?

So what’s the deadline date on your ultimatum OP?

@darksideofthemooncup I think you are being too kind to your husband - @daphnedum is right - he can't not have known about the bankruptcy for some time. The fact that the only thing keeping him afloat was the debenture should have been glaringly obvious in his accounts, and the fact the investor pulled the debenture would have been because they could clearly see it as well and called time.

He probably doesn't help himself as if he's pursuing an expensive hobby - essentially using money from the business, his investors - your DF and others will be incredibly pissed off and rightly so.

Just a word of warning though - he is probably pretty much unemployable as no employer will look at him with his history as they will think he is trying to steal trade secrets. He will be too set in his ways anyway to be employable by a decent company.

Whoknew if my Dd gets a place at the local school then next September as she would lose it if we move out of catchment. I will know by the end of March

Move out of catchment before she starts I mean

I can't understand why some posters are blaming the op for the poor decisions by two grown men. "Will your DF forgive you?" For what? Her DF is a grown man, he can make his own decisions, if he has £40,000 to risk that's his business. Sounds like the first rule of misogyny to me.

If Op's DH insists she would have inherited the £40,000 anyway, that's lovely, he can get it deposited in her bank account ASAP or he's robber her of it.

Honestly, op, all the best with the whole nightmare.

Thank you King

Can you ask him to leave and just rent your house on your own?

If you can afford that, I'd totally choose that route.

There's no point in giving him time. You know what he's like and he's told you he won't get a job.

Your father is furious because your husband has made a fool out of him
this is him demonstrating that he is in control and he can do whatever he likes he won't answer to anyone and he won't be accountable

If you've already applied for the place and have to move now, you should not lose the allocated school place. Because you totally followed the rules and applied from the address you lived at. Circumstances have changed, but that doesn't mean you're playing the system to get a better school place. The fact you've lived there for 9 years and would only be moving because of a relationship break down is fairly obvious proof of that.

Plan to leave and get legal, financial and housing advice, eg to minimise financial risk to yourself of your H’s likely bankruptcy.

Many, many people wouldn’t have stayed in the relationship anywhere near this long. It was passive to go and work for DH when you knew the business was likely to fail, and again passive to say little about your family investing.

I would never, ever go along with my family taking a financial risk on my DH, even if I had full trust in his business genius!

Mooncup what are you getting out of this marriage apart from stress and misery.

I can't understand why some posters are blaming the op for the poor decisions by two grown men. "Will your DF forgive you?" For what? Her DF is a grown man, he can make his own decisions, if he has £40,000 to risk that's his business

Really, so in your view it was nothing to do with her, she's just the dumb little lady sitting in the background whilst the big clever men make the decisions? She didn't have knowledge, she could not have said, this is my father and we are about to squander his money, so I should put a stop to this? She didn't think he was only doing it becayse she was his daughter?

And after 18 years she has no financial responsibility to her family? It's her husband's job to make the money? She can work part time and it's all good?

So ok, you think these things and can't understand why many of us feel she is jointly to blame and complicit.

I'm sorry op, but I'm fairly sure you wanted your father to give that money and you didn't stop it becayse you were hoping it would keep your family afloat.

@Blunt, i don't think that's how it went down, the husband has charmed the father into investing the 40 grand
he's not going to take investment advice from his daughter, a mere woman
No, he will listen to her husband, the talented, knowledgeable man

OP - love your name! - your OH has clearly been living in cookoo land but from what you've written so have you it seems. Your choice to work PT in these conditions doesn't make any sense. Your OH CAN take your DD to school so why was this never raised? Aren't there any afgerschool clubs? What do other parents do? Surely not all families are one only parent working family or relying on family.

It sounds like you've prioritise your DD's school over managing your finances and ended up in debts as a result which surely can't be best for her.

It's time that you both admit that you've been keeping your head in the sand. You need to go to work FT, and your OH needs to take the responsability of transporting your DD to and from school.

Kiss him au revoir OP and ASAP. as I said before we had a similar situation but my H was an incredibly hard worker in his field and we found another way to ‘make it work’ but without the risk . If he isn’t prepared to think sideways, he isn’t worth fretting another day over.

OP

Your father did make his own decision to invest. But @Bluntness100 is right to a certain extent. I am fairly sure if you had left and been honest about what is your husband’s financial abuse and business stupidity, there would be no investment. Staying enabled the situation allowing your DH to convince your father into the investment. Because this very post shows you think he is redeemable and that he just needs more time to change. He clearly isn’t and you should know it by now.

Yet, you are still with this man. Investing more time, emotions and finances into a relationship and family life that is a lost cause. Cut your losses and either throw him out or move out. You know what he is like and he isn’t going to change. Who cares what drives his behaviour, if you leave it is no longer your problem. Crucially it isn’t going to be your family’s either.

There will always be an excuse not to leave. You have spent years finding those excuses for your passivity and I think for his actions.

You can and you should take control of your life and your daughters life. Staying with this man allows him access to you, your daughter and your family’s money and love. He is a threat to both of these and to all of your security. He won’t pay back anything but he will try to borrow

Any adult making an investment of £40,000, or indeed any amount they can't afford to lose, needs to take responsibility for that decision and do their own version of due diligence, not blame the spouse of the person they lent it to. The op was not working in the business at this point, as I read it.

Blunt I have given a snapshot of what has happened to cause the situation I am in, I do take responsibility for some of it, I have been far too passive I admit that, however I am not posting in AIBU, you have absolutely no proof that this is what I wanted to happen but you are seemingly insistent on surmising that I am in kahoots with my husband to take my fathers money.
As I said my post was to confirm that I am right in my feeling that my Dh doesn't have any regard for my feelings, this hasn't happened overnight, this is a culmination of years of him disregarding my opinions and verbally beating me down so he could do what he wants
I am sorry I'm too much of a passive victim for you

Lemon no I don't think he is redeemable but I no longer trust my own judgment

No doubt I will now be accused of drip feeding. Thank you to those who have given me practical advice

OP

If you gave him an ultimatum then you still think he can change and he is therefore redeemable. Otherwise what is the point. In reality the ultimatum is pointless as he won’t change and in any case he has gone too far. That is real point. He has gone too far and the marriage is dead anyway.

I can’t see why you are still living with him or why you stay with him. Yes he is to blame for his actions and for taking your fathers money. But stay with him and it will appear that you are condoning how he lives to other people, particularly your father. You are in debt, your father has lost money and eventually he will do this to your daughter or somebody else close to you or him. Nobody else is going to loan him money but family and friends. He doesn’t have the capital, credit or reputation to run a business or get a viable job. So how else will he pay for his hobby. He is trading under his own name and you are married to him. That is a financial risk to you.

If you know this and do nothing, then you are passive. But not necessarily a victim of anybody but yourself. I am sorry but this is the time to take charge.

NB If he has any love for his daughter he would move out, that is what is best for her. Ask him to leave and insist on a divorce. Liquidate anything of value associated with his hobby. It’s all going to go anyway.

Lemon, I gave the ultimatum to see how he would react, he now knows that I am planning to leave him unless he changes, he has basically said he isn't going to change so, as I stated I have my answer.

You are married to my husband. A more extreme version but the same issues. It is so nice for me to know I am not alone. He has been "starting a business" for 9 long years. None of them ever make money, just cost us money. He was never available to do things that helped me despite me working and doing all child care and housework. He was happy to spend my money and when I finally came to the end fo my tether we had not a bean - just lots of debts. It is crazy because I earn good money.

I asked him to leave. I felt bad as I worry he is totally incapable of looking after himself in the real world and he will just crash and burn. I am now divorcing him as quickly as I can to financially separate myself. We will sell the house to cover debts and split what little equity is left and my DD and I will start over.

He left home 8 weeks ago and for a week I was totally numb and then REALLY angry at the mess he'd made of my life. I signed my decree Nisi papers yesterday so soon will be captain of my own ship. It hasn't been easy but it has been worth it. I feel so much better not carrying him through life.

It sounds to me as if you need to part ways. Good luck!

I've put that the wrong way, I am planning on leaving as I know he won't change, I know the marriage is dead and I know I can't trust him, I wanted to see how he would react to an ultimatum and got my answer. I came on here to confirm that my feelings and reasons for wanting to leave are valid and I have been shown that yes they are.

I didn't come for lectures about what I should have done in the past 18 years

Can you just tell him to leave now OP?