I've just given Dh an ultimatum

[darksideofthemooncup]

I will try to be brief. Been together for 18 years, married for 10 one Dd who is nearly 11.
Throughout our relationship he has been self employed, he has always worked in the same industry and is very knowledgeable about the product he sells. However, he is a fucking terrible business man, every single incarnation of his business has fucked up and lost people money, including my family.
We rent and have absolutely no savings, I had to take out an IVA as we lived on credit for so long. I have no idea how he isn't bankrupt,
Over the years I have taken second jobs to keep our heads above water and after our dd was born he was insistent that I worked with him which I hated.
2 years ago our business was forced into administration owing hundreds of thousands of pounds, I immediately got a job in a supermarket but my Dh somehow convinced my father to invest 40k in him to help him start again. (I really didn't want my DF to do this but my Dh can be very convincing)
The inevitable happened and the money is gone, my Df is furious (rightly so) and I am stuck in the middle of all of it.
My Dh also has a very expensive hobby that he refuses to give up.
We live within catchment of an excellent secondary school, I'm no longer at the supermarket but have a part time job that has prospects so tonight I told him if our dd gets into the school and I go full time in my job in September and things haven't changed for him (ie he gets a job) I'm off.
His response? He doesn't want to work for some massive company and make them money and it would be really hard for him to have to answer to a boss.
I think I have my answer don't I?

I don't know if he is a con artist or a Walter Mitty or somewhere between the two but he is a drain on you, money just seems to slip through his fingers

I think you need to call time or he will drag you down with him
if you separate you will manage to keep afloat and be ok but he's just going to sink isn't he

Sounds like my brother in law, except he isn't and you are the exact opposite of my SIL who is in cahoots with him.

Any reason why he can't take your DD to school?

More a Walter Mitty and incredibly lazy. The frustrating thing is that he is really good at selling and his product knowledge is amazing. He could earn s decent salary working in an industry he loves but just won't consider working for someone else.
He hates the idea of losing his flexibility but that's just life isn't it. We all have to earn a living and I can't get my head round the fact that he thinks it's acceptable to dig his heels in and continue doing what he is doing

I wonder if in his mind he is the 'talent' the special person, and everything should revolve around that?

Word that is highly likely. As to why he can't take my Dd to school he is either up really early and making a big show of doing long days or laying in bed till 11. He has actually taken her in this morning as I'm ill and maybe some of what I said last night hit home but I'm not holding my breath

It also seems like a bit of a game of chicken... he thinks if he digs his heels in you will have to be the one who bends, who lets him have his way and then you run around do what you can to pick up the pieces and try and make things work, keep him as the centre of attention the special person who must be indulged

but does he understand that there is another option for you, you can just say I'm not playing this game anymore, you're on your own sunshine

I should add I have been ill for over a week and this is the first time he has offered to take her.

He seems to have no shame, No remorse, no sense of accountability or responsibility
Yes he may be talented but he is not using that talent for the benefit of the family unit, he is just using it to bolster his own ego and to try and get away with being as lazy as he can.

he has said several times that he doesn't want to work for anyone else, you do realise don't you that that means he also won't work for you

that's why his talent and his energies are not benefiting the family unit, he will only do things if they benefit him directly
he won't work for other people and that means he won't work to benefit you or your children
he only works for HIMSELF

he also considers other people's money to be his personal property, it's a kind of 'What's yours is mine but what's mine is my own' mind set
he's not embarrassed about losing your father £40,000 because he considers other people's property to be his property
he's the king and everything belongs to him by default

Are you still sleeping with him OP? How can you beat to be intimate with such a pathetic creature. You can’t possibly have any respect left for him.

'It would be really hard for him to have to answer to a boss'

Listen to this and listen carefully, he does not have to answer to anyone, and that includes you, he will never let you dictate what he does
even if everything around him falls to ruin he keeps his position, he keeps his expensive hobby, he's the important person, the person with high status

Word that really resonates, he said once that the '40k would have been left to you anyway' when he said that I told him that that really wasn't the point or a given and that we need to pay it back.
He really is the centre of his own universe

I've we haven't been intimate in years we have separate rooms and I don't think he is remotely interested in me as a wife, more a facilitator to allow him to do as he pleases

I jAve no respect for him at all

I know if I leave there will be absolutely zero chance of him paying my dad back, it's one of the reasons I issued the ultimatum to try and jolt him back to reality, clearly not going to work

Oh love, why are you still there? This isn’t a marriage, this isn’t a partnership. He’s bled you and your family dry.

Personally I would just see it as a sign of extreme weakness, not being able to admit he's done something wrong because that would mean he was a loser, and he'd hate himself - there being only losers and winners in this world, in his view. Was he expected to always do super well in school, so that he could bever admit to finding anything difficult? Very competitive dad?

@Dark, it must be really hard to accept that he's never going to be a team player (and that's a very generous way of describing him, he's a selfish asshole from what you said) but I think the writing is on the wall now
it sounds like you need to start planning your exit?

*never

How is your relationship with your dad, will he forgive you?

It will be interesting to see what he does when left on his own .....what he does to survive?

My dad doesn't blame me but I feel a responsibility to him getting it back.

It's a form of narcissism, isn't it? He absolutely knows best, no matter what the evidence against him states.

I know you say he's a great salesman (he certainly was when he persuaded your dad to invest £40K) so why doesn't he go for a job where he gets commission? There are tons of sales jobs like that.

But in any case, you're nearly 50 and if you stay with this man you'll end up homeless, so yes, you need to leave him and to take care of yourself.

The manoeuvre that he pulled with your dad was quite a clever one
what it does is it binds you to him, he doesn't feel embarrassed and he feels under no obligation to repay the money but he absolutely knows full well that you are embarrassed and that you feel obligated towards your dad,

because of your sense of obligation towards your dad you feel that you have a duty to stay with your husband, to help him and support him so that he can earn the money to repay your dad.

If you don't leave your husband the message sent to your dad is that he has to kiss goodbye to the money and that's very insulting and difficult for both of you

your husband has got you all tied up in knots to keep you with him

Your husband works for no one and he tries to arrange things so that everyone is working for him