I've just given Dh an ultimatum

[darksideofthemooncup]

I will try to be brief. Been together for 18 years, married for 10 one Dd who is nearly 11.
Throughout our relationship he has been self employed, he has always worked in the same industry and is very knowledgeable about the product he sells. However, he is a fucking terrible business man, every single incarnation of his business has fucked up and lost people money, including my family.
We rent and have absolutely no savings, I had to take out an IVA as we lived on credit for so long. I have no idea how he isn't bankrupt,
Over the years I have taken second jobs to keep our heads above water and after our dd was born he was insistent that I worked with him which I hated.
2 years ago our business was forced into administration owing hundreds of thousands of pounds, I immediately got a job in a supermarket but my Dh somehow convinced my father to invest 40k in him to help him start again. (I really didn't want my DF to do this but my Dh can be very convincing)
The inevitable happened and the money is gone, my Df is furious (rightly so) and I am stuck in the middle of all of it.
My Dh also has a very expensive hobby that he refuses to give up.
We live within catchment of an excellent secondary school, I'm no longer at the supermarket but have a part time job that has prospects so tonight I told him if our dd gets into the school and I go full time in my job in September and things haven't changed for him (ie he gets a job) I'm off.
His response? He doesn't want to work for some massive company and make them money and it would be really hard for him to have to answer to a boss.
I think I have my answer don't I?

Just wow! Your poor df, your dh is entitled and should be grovelling to all the people who he’s swindled out of money. He should be working in pubs and supermarkets or picking spuds to try and pay back some small amount for the people’s futures he’s fucked up. Sorry op but I couldn’t be with someone like that. I’d leave to a smaller, cheaper place and pay my own way

I wouldn't be surprised, too, if he's hiding more debt from you that you don't know about.

You choose to interpret it as such - and that's fine. Thanks for your explanation about the partner. I have a close family member was significantly disadvantaged through someone similar to your husband, so I have direct experience of this, but from the other side. I see others have made similar points to me, maybe not quite as directly. I hope you take your time to think about the implications of all this. Whatever you decide, I would suggest you need to have a very full and frank discussion with your husband about the way forward, either together - if you choose to stay - or apart.

Who knew that's how I feel, I can't understand why he continues to flog a dead horse when he could get a decent salary, pay people back and we could have a chance of rebuilding our lives.

He continues to do this because he thinks he's entitled to live a certain way. That's why he won't give up the hobby, either. He feels he's too good to work for someone else. He's not at all concerned or ashamed at those he's taken from and never paid back. This is who he is.

Can’t he take her to school since he’s essentially unemployed?

I have been in this position and yes it is very very easy to be forced into admin. In our case one of our distributors stopped paying and held a lot of our stock, we had an investor a wealthy one and he insisted we put it into admin. In the end we just liquidated it because the admin got stock back and sold it for peanuts. What we did oP was paired up with a very old cash rich company in the same business , so my H and I still get to work in it as if self employed but we get paid by this other company and they deal with all the back end’business stuff’. Might be an option for your H. However I do think he should commit if things pick up to paying your F back, even if small amounts in bits. Your F would know the risks if he is an intelligent bloke. Your H though sounds unsuitable to do stuff off his own back that requires risk, far better if he has great industry knowledge and skill to pair up with someone else and get paid and rewarded for that but in a freelance kind of wAy

I would suggest you start to get advice both legal and financial. Make sure you know what you are entitled to. Is there anyway the Landlord will transfer the lease to you? Could you have a lodger?
Does anyone else go to the same school as your DD? Could you arrange a lift share so you could go full time?

What money is he using to finance his hobby?

Op as a pp said, if you give an ultimatum you need to follow it through, I get the feeling you won't do that. You were just trying to convince him to get a job.

And yes, you're still giving excuses for his behaviour. Life isn't going to to Change. He won't change, you know this.

Get a full time job, try to take some financial responsibility yourself. You working part time and him fucking around, is never going to make you financially secure.

And taking personal responsibility is important. Your posts are all about him. But you youtself do fuck all to make your family financially secure.

On a side note it's awful that the pair of you allowe your father to invest like that. Really you should both be ashamed.

The fact he can't see a problem and refuses to address his spending is very strange.
I don't think it is that strange actually.
Admitting this would mean admitting that he has been wrong his entire life. It would mean giving up his self-image as a businessman and seeing himself as a useless loser.

I doubt he'll change his habits, as that would amount to the same thing: admitting he was wrong all along, and is rubbish.

Frankly, to maintain his self-image, he'll be better off letting OP divorce him and then going round making himself out to be the poor victim of a mad wife who never supported him and is in fact the reason why it never worked out.

I see some big history rewriting coming up, OP. Batten down the hatches, get everything you can in writing - all paperwork, including his business stuff - multiple copies in a very safe place.

I wouldn't wait until September - you certainly need to be financially cut off from him well before then, as if he sees you ready to leave he may take the opportunity to "jointly" invest some more of your funds so he's not solely responsible for it, especially if he's been warned in advance. Don't let him know any more about your plans.

Bluntness did you read my original post? I have always worked sometimes two jobs, I can't go full time at present as my Dd wouldn't be able to get to and from school, do you not think it is the first thing I would do if it was as simple as that. I'm not after sympathy I wanted to clarify that my feelings over his reaction to my ultimatum were valid. I'm also not after a kicking over financial decisions that were out of my control.

Ravenmum yes he is good at the blame game, as regards joint funds, we don't have anything in joint names save our tenancy agreement and bills, no joint bank accounts or savings.

Where is he currently getting money from to do his hobby if he's out of work with no savings? I hope you're not giving him cash!

Could the business be profitable if someone else was running it ?

You say you've nothing joint, apart from the tenancy agreement and bills. In your opening post you mention you had to take out an IVA, so presumably some of your debts were written off. Are you paying down your residual debts down regularly? Have you checked your credit rating recently?

Yep I'm paying off my debts but my credit rating is poor and will be for at least the next three years. As regards how he is funding his hobby, he has kept going as a sole trader but it is limping along and I know he cannot possibly be making enough to keep going indefinitely. I know from experience that it will eventually crash and burn and I just want him to recognise that, get a salary and stop waiting for miracles to occur.

Op, how old are you?
For your own sake you need to get out..being linked to this man is dragging you down.I assume you have no pension?

I agree with sorting secondary school, will that be March time?
All you can do is plan for the separation to happen.
What business and hobby is it, people could perhaps give specific advice.

So yes he is 'working' but the bare minimum in my opinion and with no room to pay my Df back or enable any financial security for the family

I'm nearly 50, I have a work pension but other than that nothing and the thought of that terrifies me.

Isn't he in the slightest bit embarrassed he lost your dad 40k. He should be doing everything possible to pay it back. Or is he too good to work in a shop or bar while looking for a well paid job.

Sorry to hear you're in this situ.

I've been in a similar place. ExH was employed for many years in well paid jobs. Took voluntary redundancy and then decided to run him own business. Cue 8 years of financial misery, uncertainty and stress. Huge sums from inheritances were used to keep us afloat. We downsized significantly to pay off debts. The lies and stress destroyed our marriage. He also wasted money on hobbies and socialising that we just didn't have. It took a long time but I called time on the marriage as I could only see things getting worse.

I think you should start making plans to leave. Put secondary application in. Start planning and saving and make your move over the summer. You can be settled ready for Sep and then move to full time.

I now work Ft. My eldest is in secondary. Youngest still in juniors. My life is busy and I don't have much spare cash but I manage just fine. I budget and plan and I do not have the massive worry or what the hell he will do next. You will be fine.

Exactly that Banana, I can't believe that he is so blase about the whole thing. I'm fucking embarrassed about it so he should be mortified but it would appear not

As others have said, he needs to take your daughter to school, so you can go full time. Then by September, you will be in a position to take on the rent on your own and kick him out. He won’t change, you already have your answer and need to start planning accordingly.

Thanks Another, it's good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel