"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2018, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I should have also said that I would like to be more authentic and honest around my parents especially my mum but in the past I have been shut down for expressing negative emotions around her so it is hard for me to do it now and also I am not a confrontational person by nature so it is difficult for me to confront her about things I’ve been unhappy with. To further complicate things I asked them/suggested they move closer to us or suggested that it would be a good idea as at the time it seemed like a good idea but I do feel a lot of pressure as none of their other family lives here. They help me with childcare when I need and when they are available but I feel a lot of pressure/responsibility to be nice to them because they are only here because of me and my family .

Hi Cloud

In answer to your last question no I would not continue to want such people in my life. You need radiators; not drains around you and you would not tolerate such from a friend either. Your mother in particular was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and is still not above using emotional blackmail to get what she wants from you. Your children over time will pick up on all this as well from her.

How is your dad towards you and any other siblings these days?.

If such people are too toxic/difficult/batshit for you to deal with, its the same deal for your kids also. At the very least I would raise your boundaries a lot higher than they currently are, to this end I would start by reducing the frequency of visits made to them.

Do you think you are still very much in a FOG state (fear, obligation and guilt) when it comes to your parents?. That may well be why you asked them to move closer. I would look into finding a therapist to start talking about this dysfunctional relationship.

It is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them this way.

Would also suggest you consider alternative childcare, these two do not seem to be suitable enough role models for your kids to be around. They make you also as their mother feel uncomfortable and that is also a good reason reason to curtail all visits.

Anyone?

Fuppy- my parents esp father was neglectful and very critical. Lots of Marc traits. Grandiose. Essentially treated me like an accessory. If I did well in his eyes he saw that as s reflection of him. "Failure" met with extreme criticism and contempt. This continued into adulthood although as an adult i had the relief of distance. I lived far far away. Im very lc now. Previously wss NC.
With NC he never pursued contact or harassed me. Prior to that however I did notice over many years how if I stepped out of line he's reign me in or get others to relay that sort of message.

I’ve had a lot of therapy and to be quite frank I’m just fed up of it and the £1000+ I’ve spent. They are mostly kind to my kids though so maybe I have FOG but as they are only alone with the kids perhaps once every 2-3 weeks (not really at all at the moment) am I really doing that much damage letting this continue? My dad is basically a man child who I think has never gotten over or able to get over his childhood

@Fuppy - yes. My mother tried all sorts of emotional blackmail, and still does. I am still in full contact but she knows nothing about my life really. Nothing that matters, at any rate. This was not always so but she made full use of any information she did have in order to press my buttons.

@ChocOrCheese & @lasttimeround thank you for sharing!

I've been NC with my Mum for 5 years and her family for 3 years.

She has managed to get information from my bank, found out my address and turned up (with backup) turned up at hospital when I was in, got her friends to contact me, her family to contact me (including sending them to my house) and she's contacted several of my friends.

One of my friends stood up to her and I've not heard from her since.

She's narcissistic and violent towards me, even into adulthood.

I'm sick of looking over my shoulder and being afraid to answer my door.

Hi not looking forward to Mother's Day ...low contact with mother ...say no more hugs to anyone who feels the same x

Same here dragon 💐

Even though it isnt nice, at least we all know we are not alone xx

Same here. I feel so upset but also a little angry. I don’t know why I feel angry. Misplaced but it’s there all the same.

Dd will do sweet little things for me like she always does but it’ll be tainted with sadness that my M will be alone. I won’t call her. I know I can’t but .. ah it’s just shit

💐💐 for everyone who finds Mothers Day difficult.
Birthdays, Xmas etc are all ruined by their unwanted contact. With no thought to how the recipient will feel, just with the outcome that they want.
Basically any event involving a card then ignored the rest of the year. It's fucking insane.

And relax 🤦‍♀️

to everyone on here from me as well.

I've never posted on this thread before but I really feel rock bottom today.

I have a 2 year old who is poorly and awaiting surgery. A 6 month old who doesn't sleep. DH works long hours and I work evening shifts most days after caring for the dc all day. I also have glandular fever at the moment and am anemic. I'm knackered.

My "DM" has always made plans with my sister and never included me in her Mother's Day plans. So I didn't think anything of it and asked DH if he'd mind popping her card through the door when he went to the shops yesterday afternoon. (That was difficult in itself getting her a Mother's Day card, frankly she doesn't deserve one).

I then received a text message not for me but about me. Meant to be for my sister, taking the piss out of me, calling me lazy, saying my husband is a dick for not knocking. (Wonder why he doesn't want to knock and speak to them).

I'm beyond exhausted and sick of them. I've blocked their numbers but feel so devastated. I just look at my beautiful babies and think how can they treat me like that. How can they dislike their child so much. It makes me feel so shit.

Sorry to read that this happened to you Ajumpydeer. They are the shit ones here, not you.

It’s not you, it’s them. You have done the right thing by blocking the pair of them. It may now come to pass that at some point in the future a person known as a flying monkey (this is usually a well meaning but easily manipulated person like a friend or family member) may turn up and demand that you make up with your mother and or sister. That person needs to be ignored by you.

If your husband’s parents are nice concentrate your efforts further on them. Your children and your husband too do not need people like your mother and her golden child daughter in your lives. BTW the golden child is a role not without price either but she is as yet unaware of the price to be paid. It is not your fault your mother is like this and you did not make her that way.

I wish your child the very best for their upcoming surgery and wish he/she a speedy recovery. I would also like to send my best wishes to you as well.

You do not mention your dad here at all, I was wondering where he is now. Is he in your life at all?

I read your comment on the other thread about grieving. You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. It is similar to a bereavement.

I thought today would be shit with the two weeks of tears about mothers day activities at nursery. But we survived, not only that we survived the changing of the clocks without bedtime being a disaster and it’s our first day without the dickhead living here. So all in all, it’s been fab. So now it’s beer and fag o’clock.

Ohjumpy your mother is a prize bitch. I know how much it wears you down and makes you anxious to be the disliked on in your family. That insecurity wondering what on earth it was that made my family dislike me so haunted every aspect of my life. Until I finally walked away and slowly realised none of it was about me in any case. I want to give you a hug so badly. I recognise that horrible feeling of having tried to be nice (even though the exclusion of you from mothers day with favoured sis only is horrid too and doesn't deserve a card particularly given your circs) and getting yet another kick in the teeth. Think about that. Think about how you would advise your child to act if someone treated them they way your mother just did - and then do that.

Do any of you have any advice about relationships with siblings having gone low contact with mother? My mum is a narcissist who has always played my brother and I off against each other and 3 years ago I had a breakdown as a result of her impact on my life. I was no contact for about 6 month's which caused a huge reaction from her. Telling family how terrible I am, contacting my friends to say she suspected my husband was abusing me etc etc. She and I are low contact now, all on my terms. I have been seeing a therapist for the last 3 years and done loads of work on my self esteem and acceptance of how my mother is and how to protect myself from her. Things with her are on a relatively even keel now. However, i have now discovered that my brother has had a big family get to together- his wife turned 40 - where all family was invited apart from me and my husband. I suspect that this is somehow a result of my mum but I don't know that for sure. I am really really hurt and feel that my relationship with my brother and his family is now ruined and that they don't like us. I don't know how to approach it with any of them, how do i ask why we were excluded without sounding jealous or paranoid?

@QueenietheCutie
Similar to me I'm nc with my dad and my dB does not speak to me because I'm nc with dad .
My dB has never asked what's happened but basically has said he's done with me if I don't speak to dad . I've told him I'd never side with dad over him as I know how unreasonable my dad is .
If I can describe it to me it's like when a bully bullies someone you are glad it's not you so you go along with the bully in fear they will take it out on you . My dad is the bully and I stood up to him so my dB took the bully side . My dB has his reasons and I hope that one day he will realise how manipulative and nasty my dad is but in the meantime I have to concentrate on myself and my family.
If you message your brother you may get a message back like mine and it will hurt but for me at least I know , I'm dealing with it and trying to move on .
Families are very dysfunctional

I appear to have been cut adrift by my middle sister and my brother since NC with M (and therefore with Dad, who is not allowed independence of mind) seven months ago. Sibling relationships in our family have always been tricky to say the least, because - as I now realise - they are not actually meant to exist. The only approved relationship is between M and each individual member of the family. How else can she control the narrative?

The only functioning family relationship I have is with my youngest sister, my DSis, who was cast in the role of primary scapegoat while still in the womb. This is no exaggeration, by the way. I was 16 when M was carrying her and 17 when she was born and I recall, with painful clarity, the warning signs. Up until that point, my brother was (and still is) golden child while middle sister and I had to play scapegoat lottery. We were never destined, therefore, to develop anything resembling a normal sibling relationship and our subsequent periodic attempts to do so have always been undermined and ultimately scuppered by M.

Painful as it is, I accept now that this is just how it is in our weird family dynamic and that it is never going to change while she is around. Contact with my middle sister and brother is limited to birthday and Christmas cards, nothing more. I am only keeping the lines of communication open because one day, M will be no more and there might, just might, be the faint hope of some sort of relationship with my middle siblings. Till then - and here is my advice FWIW - is "let it go". Idontlike789 is right. Put your sanity first.

she suspected my husband was abusing me

Classic, QueenietheCutie, absolutely classic. In your mother's world, you can't possibly be acting of your own free will so therefore you must be under the complete control of your husband. Reminds me of something that happened just before my NC started with my mother. She accused DSis and me of a "wicked conspiracy" against her (translation: we each stood up to her during one of her madder moments) and then she informed the wider family that my DH was "orchestrating" the whole thing.

DH, a no-nonsense Northerner, and DSis's DH just burst out laughing, pointing out that either of them would have to be certifiably insane to even try to control one "Singing" sister, never mind two. M's face, oh her face

@SingingLily My Mother died a year ago yesterday, I was holding out on a similar hope, but I've wasted a year of my life on it now, and my Dad and sisters are still dancing to her tune, so I've gone NC again for my own sanity!

I'm sorry to hear that, MrsT1984, and expect it to go pretty much the same way for me when the time comes. Still, you had to try and I applaud you for that.

My DSis is very very low contact with M and middle siblings, only because she wants to be able to say a last goodbye to Dad when the time comes (she says she thinks he's given up on life now). Once he's gone, she's determined to go NC immediately, something she's been longing to do for years. I understand and support her decision, just as she understands and supports mine.

We all of us deserve better than this, don't we?