"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2018, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

NK1 it sounds like it's time for you to walk away with your head held high. You would be completely justified in doing so. Leave all that nastiness hanging in the air as your last contact with her. Please don't get drawn in to responding & justifying yourself - you don't need to.
It's all bullshit projection anyway.

Steve the kindest thing you can say about these people is that they just don't get it. They are the lucky ones who have never suffered in a toxic family.

Might just stick to SH and ignore everything else. @AttilaTheMeerkat I sent you a pm last night :) are you still in the States btw? I'm not envious, not at all!

Thank you for the kind posts :)

Am back home now in cold Britain.

So sorry to hear about that Steve. I don't think other people 'get' it

Thanks for the reply fc. It's my birthday today and no communication from her or my Dad (normal for him he checked out of parenthood years ago). She's making it very easy for me to walk away

NK

Would urge you to walk away now from your parents for your own peace of mind as well as sanity. Your parents, particularly your mother, are never going to be the nice parents you perhaps still want them to be because they are not built that way. Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way (their own families did that to them).

Happy Birthday for today as well

Thanks very much Attila! I am walking away. Something clicked this time and I am ready within myself. I'm still devastated but I need to do it

Happy Birthday NK don't drink & drive the pushbike ! (Emotes!)

Hi there Stately homes people. I've learnt a lot from reading posts here and some of the recommended websites. I have a couple of questions for you.

Despite knowing there was something wrong with my relationship with my mother, I am only now realising, in my late forties, that she is a narcissist of the covert and ignoring type and I am starting to see what impact this has had on my own mental health and relationships.

I have recently come out of an abusive relationship in which me, and particularly my DS were emotionally abused (his step father). I went into that relationship after divorcing from a 15 year marriage in which I was emotionally distant like my own DM and in which I totally failed to get my needs heard or met. In the end he was having affairs and it ended.

One of my biggest fears is being like my mother and I wonder what the differences are between codependency and narcissism given they both spring from messed up childhoods? Can I make a full recovery? Will I ever know what a normal relationship looks like? And have one? Currently very happily single for the first time in 25 years.

I realise that I distanced myself from my mother emotionally quite some time ago and do not give her any narcissistic supply- that is my sister's job (she's a big people pleaser) but my mother has been punishing me for this for my whole adult life.

For the past year my inner voice has been yelling 'I don't know who I am' never mind what I want. I have found a good therapist and feel I have embarked on some sort of journey. Any advice gratefully received. Thanks.

Hi there,
The "I don't know who I am" is a common theme which stems from never having been heard in childhood. By constantly having to subjugate our needs/wants/thoughts/feelings to another we don't learn who we are.
This would explain why you put your own needs last in your first marriage.
I would imagine the therapy will be helpful for you working through this. It's has been for me 💐

Joining this thread. Starting on a journey to nc with my mum and hoping to find similar souls.

Just getting my thoughts down. I don’t know where I’m going with this or if anyone will have the time to read this. However, my confusion has left me to seek refuge as no one seems as outraged as me or maybe everyone tries to see the bright side of things and ‘because its your mother’ they always give the benefit of the doubt and try to pick apart all of her doings and say well maybe she meant xyz ? Outsiders find her funny and opinionated- I find her just opinionated, rude, aggressive and generally an angry negative person.

My father was present for the most part they coparented very well however he left when i was 12 and didn’t return until 17 (no communication) we then reconnected became very close again and then he spiralled into substance abuse in the last 4 years and he is now a drug addict (no contact).

It may help to know that I am the only child so I always had to take the raft of everything alone. My mother is single.

I somehow feel guilty and am still second guessing myself as I type this but anyway here goes.

Phrases my mother was always sure to say to me in repetition:

I am the mother
I have 30 years on you ( it is important for her to point out the age gap as being superior to me and more knowledgable in all situations)
Because I said so
I AM YOUR MOTHER ( raised tone)
I expect you to be on my side ( because she is always right in any disagreement between us and between outsiders and how dare i not have my own brain and should side with her in all matters)
I’m always right

Things that I resent my mother for:

I have always felt from young that she was up and down. Sometimes I came home from school music would be playing and she would be in a great mood. Other times she would be in a stinking mood (normally from work or a disagreement she would have with others). I knew to walk on egg shells those days. Disobeying her by ‘talking back’ (ie. having any form of opinion) in any form would lead to an argument where she shouts to the roof tops that ‘I AM THE MOTHER I HAVE 30 YEARS ON YOU’ which would follow with days of silent treatment on her end until she was over the matter.

At times she would punish me with physical correction- something that is seen as normal in my community. This would be an open hand slap to the face on occasion, i once remember being hit with a baseball glove and a leveller. To be honest I mainly blocked these parts out as they were seen as normal to me and nothing I really held on to. I did hate an open hand to the face as this is when i felt most disrespected and small inside. Naturally being hit and having to take it and walk away because she is the mother and you live under her roof creates pent up anger in a child (pre teen/ teen) however, i still chose not to step out of line.

She often used to ring a bell which she said she needed so she doesn’t strain her throat calling me (although our house was a 1 bedroom apartment). I always expressed that I did not like it as I felt like a slave of hers and she told me to stop looking at it like that. To this day i have brought this up and she laughs about it as if this behaviour is normal. When ringing the bell she would make me come and stand at attention like a soldier. Something she also thinks is normal and funny and said it is instilling discipline.

She often refers to me in the days as a young child (4-10) and sends pictures saying “ thats my girl right there- you always said that you would take care of me and be like my husband and friend and then one day you snubbed me and said you’re going with your friends now”. This is something i assume is only normal of a teenager?

From age 10 I had a small job which I cant remember how i got in to but I remember at one point wanting to quit and my mom said I couldnt- while under punishment she would also send me to the job as further punishment. She also got accustom to me making money so around 12/13 she often started making subtle changes - stating that I’m a picky eater and i should buy my own groceries. Something she said was teaching me independence. But then it became essential that I buy my own groceries as she would refuse to fill the fridge with the items I eat. I should also add that I have consistently had a job working around school from aged 10 (which is described as learning to be independent by my mother). However going to other kids homes I started to feel like this behaviour wasn’t right. I always saw their moms pack their lunches and make them food something I vowed would always be given to my own children. I mean 12 years old is certainly a bit young to be fending for yourself surely? I don’t know if i was asking too much but i felt hard done by and why didn’t my mother take joy in doing the motherly things?

She loves to bring up only the good things (90% of which i can not remember because it must have been before the age of 5).

She was never hard on me with school but often bragged that she put money aside monthly since i was a baby for my college fund which “made her a good mother’ in her words. When the time came for college at 17 ( I graduated early) she was sure to let me know that I would be going where she wanted on her terms. She also stated that if i didn’t write her letters that I would not be able to go (this was a heated argument ) and distinctly stated that phone calls would not suffice with her “letters were better”. I am a 90’s baby so I grew up in the technology era- letters were never a thing between us or with anyone so I was very confused why all of a sudden this was a requirement. Anyhow, I started college and ended up having to stay in country to go to a local one due to finances because I ended up receiving around $7k from her which was what she said she was saving for me (Something i was a bit surprised with because she had said she was saving from a baby). I was very thankful still- Not ungrateful at all but realistically that wasn’t getting me far. I ended up requiring financial assistance for books and also an in college scholarship to fund my 2 year degree.

She often let me sleep over my then boyfriends house (now husband). I often used it as a place of refuge to escape the environment at home (lots of mental games). When I would return home she would leave a suitcase out in my room and tell me I could leave (although she always approved of me staying over but was mad that I had somewhere to go in a heated argument). I would also add that her mother kicked her out at 17 (something i hear about often that she resents) so I felt highly upset when she tried to mind game me daily by leaving the suitcase out.

I just want to add my husband -i have been with since the age of 15- is the only constant in my life- his mother is like my mother- we have the best relationship. She is an amazing person to everyone she knows and even those she doesn’t know and would give the skin off her back to anyone. So he plainly can not comprehend how I struggle with my mother and often says things like ( well don’t worry about it , it will be ok and have you made sure you tried so she cant say anything?). This naturally exhausts me and leaves me without much outlet because I understand its hard for someone to understand my plight when they have had such a great upbringing from a loving saint of a mother they cant fathom other mothers are not the same.

From the day I turned 18 I knew I had to find a way to get out of the house to avoid being controlled by her because ‘she is the mother’. I worked hard at my community college and managed to land several scholarships which luckily afforded me an all in free ride to university. Which was perfect because my boyfriend (now husband) had already just left for the same country to go to university 2 months prior.

I went to university,My mother, my father and grandmother came to send me off— I actually can not remember how the disagreement started or what it was over however I remember her getting mad with me because I kept asking her not to act a certain way with me. ( Something that was seen as trying to change her). She stormed off and from September dropping me off she didn’t speak to me or make contact until late march. Im used to silent treatment- because this was often used at home and I guess it made it easier because I wasn’t in the country ( out of sight out of mind). Ofcourse it weighed on me heavily but i decided I was happy to be free of her control and I wouldn’t give in to her foolery! I was too taking a silent stand against her.

Continued below....

Ill just skip to more recent events as this could become a novel.

My husband eventually ended up becoming very successful. Therefore outsiders are always keen to ask my mother how we are doing (thus always bringing her darling daughter to the forefront of her mind). I think she became to resent this.

I ended up staying abroad after university (because I never wanted to return home to her) and I ended up moving in with him.

Upon getting engaged- it wasn’t the bells and whistles from her that i expected (but then maybe thats just how the mothers are in movies?). It was a bit of “ I knew it, congrats” and not much anything more. There was never any interest in my wedding planning or how i was getting on with anything - not really any of the mother daughter my baby is getting married excitement that I expected. No questions about the dress- just nothing. Basically her only interest was when I said I would be dressing her and making her look fabulous for the big day. Something she was very excited about.

My mother and I don’t speak often on the phone (barely ever). Its all by text as I got her an iPad some years ago so that she could keep in contact with me ‘the millennial way’. When she does message me its often about a drama she is having or something she is annoyed about (mostly she is always a victim of the world and every job she has ever had is taking advantage of her) but the simple fact is that she does not like rules (because rules mean she has to follow someone else’s command). She hardly asks about me how Im doing or anything of that sort its many a me me me conversation and if i don’t agree with her point of view (which i find is always radical) this creates more strain between us.

My home was burgled while I was in. I was attacked physically and it was all very quite traumatic. I didn’t want to worry her really so didn’t tell her for days until I was able to repeat the story and somehow felt nervous to tell her (she isn’t really my shoulder to lean on). I guess because i seemed ‘fine’ and was light hearted about the situation although telling her all the details- she too treated it light hearted. Didn’t make much a fuss over it and basically didn’t talk about it ever again. ( where was the motherly support and checking on me even though i seemed ok? I had anxiety and nightmares for months) If it were me as a mother I would catch a plane over to make sure my child was definitely ok- but then again i have come to realise she is not me.

My wedding came- she behaved herself for the most part but obviously not without incident. For the first dance, before my husband and I could take the dance floor right in the moment- she having had a few drinks took the dance floor to have a blast as everyone was onlooking. (I found this very offensive because its not her day, it was mine. Why couldn’t she behave normally, its almost certain that all guest would know that was unacceptable). I said to her several times i felt she had too many drinks but she became agitated and became annoyed about that.

After the wedding, I was certain that any mother would be excited to see the wedding photos? Nope not mine! I messaged her several times by text to mention the photos had arrived and she ignored ignored ignored and spoke about other things. I sent her a link to the photos because she kept ignoring and still heard nothing for 3 days. She then replied ‘everyone says i look so nice in the pictures they could hardly recognise me’ referring to herself. This obviously hurt me because the only thing I wanted to hear was ‘ you looked so great in your dress or even that the day looked beautiful, it was special… ANYTHING!!! So i decided to directly messaged her and said why are you ignoring me and Im asking if you like the wedding pictures. She still ignored this and said she has seen them and that she is busy and will be attending another wedding soon. At this time i was on a scheduled flight back home to visit and she made sure to leave her new address in a text and stated.. ‘you know where i will be’. In a way that meant you need to come and see me if we are to see each other (bearing in mind at the time I’m 6 months pregnant with twins). I told her I wouldn’t have transportation while back in the area and asked her if she wanted to meet for lunch for her birthday. She told me she couldn’t and that I can stop by on the way from the airport and see her. I obliged because of course it would weigh on my conscience if i didn’t make the effort to go and see her. I went face to face and said why did you keep ignoring me about the wedding pictures? She said ‘ because I was there at the wedding I saw it all, what is there to say?’ Crushed! What did I do to deserve an uninterested parent.

I decided at the beginning of that year hey you know what, when people get older they become great friends with their parents. Let me try to see if we can have a good relationship as normally we cant be in a room with each other longer than an hour without an argument starting because I disagree with her point of view. So I told her I was booking us an all paid for 5 country trip so that we can bond because I felt like she really didn’t know me as an adult or in general. (I had been away from her now out of country for 7 years). Initially she tried to self sabotage and not accept it as (she never had anyone do anything like that for her, in her words). Eventually she obliged and became very excited about it. I paid for everything she didn’t have to worry about anything. This is thousands of dollars, i was really trying for us to have the trip of a lifetime. The trip was meant to be September however in June I fell pregnant with twins. She seemed happy about the pregnancy (well happy enough by her standard).

I had an absolutely horrible pregnancy and hypermesis for 6 months. I was completely ill and bed ridden from work. This obviously put the trip in jeopardy. I didn’t know I would have hypermesis or that we would get pregnant so fast but I assumed that by the time September came i should be fine and over the worst. September came and the trip was approaching and I was no better it was awful and I called my mother sobbing ( I was at my lowest point if i was turning to her for support). Surprisingly, she appeared to have empathy stating that she too had a bad pregnancy so she understood (she is always sure to let me know that anything I have done or experienced, she has done better, more or had a worst off time than I). But it didn’t matter because I was so pleased and thought she has definitely changed. I told her that I needed her now more than ever and needed her to come and take care of me when she came for the trip. She sounded so excited at the thought that I finally ‘needed’ her in some form or even just to have heard the words. She is obsessed with wanting me to need her and because she made me fend for myself so much growing up I had become accustom to not needing her and neither did i want to ever need her! So i wouldn’t have to be controlled by her!!! I made a way to make it without her and was doing very well not needing her. Anyway she Agreed she would come and take care of me. The day she arrived- early in the morning 7am and I was at the peak of my ‘morning sickness’. I let her into our home (where she had never been before) and I hugged her and showed her to the room. I informed her that I was very ill and I would show her around later but I really needed to letdown because I was fatigued. She went on to say that I looked well and didn’t look as sick as I said I was and that Im so dramatic she would have thought I was dying because when she was pregnant she looked far worse when she was feeling sick. I ignored it for the most part but said you cant always see how someone feels and then I went to bed. I woke up to a text from her (bearing in mind she is right across the hall in the next room) and the text said ‘tic toc’ what are we doing? I miss (her partners name at the time). So as if to add insult to injury I’m very ill and the first thing you say is basically hurry up and entertain me because you’re bored. Anyway, my husband came home and she was complaining to him in ear shot that I hadn’t shown her around the house or anything. Thankfully he defended me stating that Im sick and I echoed it and said I only just woke up you know Im unwell. My sickness ramped up after this and I was at my worst. She didn’t come to see me in my room for 2 days while in my house. I was very ill and didn’t leave the bed for 2 days I had to wait for my husband to come home just to feed me because I was so ill and weak. I was very upset at this display of actions especially considering she is in my house and has not come to check on me at all knowing how unwell I am (you can hear me vomiting from the hallway). Then she finally came to my room and said with an attitude that She went outside yesterday and the weather is colder than she expected and I (me) don’t have good communication because I couldn’t confirm what the weather would be (even though I told her to bring a jacket because I don’t know and September could be extended summer or early winter and the feeling of coldness is variable to each person). She went on to say this is why she had 30 years on me because she would know how to let someone know what the weather would be. I then said great thanks for checking on me all these days in a sarcastic tone as she only came in there to discuss herself I also added that my back was hurting and I felt very ill and she replied ‘ well my back hurts too and I’m sitting in a room doing nothing. If i knew you were this sick I would not have come’. I was shocked that she would say such a thing and I said I told you I was sick i asked you to come I told you I needed you. Instead of addressing the concerns I had when I broke down to her and asked her to be a normal mother to me she continued to go on about how she was wronged and frustrated with other family members (all about her and nothing about her actions). She also mentioned that she was still ‘taking in all of this’ regarding the house i have and how well off I am (so so odd as I’ve been sure never to bring it up or brag in any way because I would never) and why would she mention that when I’m crying because she didn’t come to care for me or even check that I was alive for 2 days while in my house. Anyway needless to say her visit was awful and we never ended up going on the trip because I was too ill. I couldn’t wait for her to fly back home! Something I thought she was sympathetic about but turned out not to give a rats! She also mentioned several times that I was not sick as she was, because she couldn’t talk or walk when she was sick- I had to mention several times that It was not a competition and she would have no idea what I’m enduring in a twin pregnancy.

She came with me to an ultrasound and a drs appointment - she sat in muted silence for the drs appointment agitated at the fact we didn’t take the trip. ( Would you be more concerned with your childs health or the trip- I mean I’m the one who is losing thousands of dollars and I could careless because when you’re that sick nothing else matters). Every ultrasound picture I showed her she was sure to mention that she thinks they look like her in some way. She was well aware of my due date but after she returned home she told me she was going to Las Vegas in April ( which was my due date). My MIL was extremely excited about the pregnancy and said (without me even requesting) that she would be taking a few months off work to fly over and take care of us and help with the babies during arrival. Things I can only wish my own mother would do instead of booking a flight to Las Vegas!. A flight I might add that she asked me to book for her. I didn’t even question it because I didn’t want her presence anyway one that would be full of stress and disappointment. She’s one of those people that actually doesn’t consider her actions until someone else brings it up unknowingly and then said ‘ you’re not going over for the birth of your first grandchild!!?” which made her think that she should be coming when it hadn’t even crossed her own thoughts. I will add that I believe she is jealous of the relationship I have with my MIL as we are so close. She told me 2 months before I was due that she now wanted to come. Which of course started an argument as Now my home is full as MIL and family are coming up. I questioned her trip and long story short she said the trip was canceled because I didn’t book it for her and she didn’t want to be accused of not coming up for the babies. I couldn’t believe it, but it shouldn’t have shocked me.

She never once asked me if I had everything I needed for the babies, what their names were going to be, if i started a nursery, If i feel prepared just nothing in general ever about my pregnancy and preparations for the babies. What kind of mother have I been dealing with!! I cant even believe it as i type. All conversations were always about her. I decided from that trip that I would stick to neutral topics that cant be argued over so i would send pictures of any baking or cooking I would do. She was sure to say that I probably forced my husband and others to say it was nicely tasting. (cant even have a conversation about food without her rude comments. After then she sent me pictures of her food with snarky messages like ‘ you can cook but i am the baking and cooking specialist’ and ‘when you eat your humble pie maybe you will want me there to cook for you’ ( I have never denied her the chance to do this in fact i begged her to take care of me when she came for the trip and she done the exact opposite. So I don’t know why she thinks I have an ego about it. She also believes Im an evil person). She had mentioned a few times that she was ‘so Jealous that you got two boys’. A slap in the face like having me (a girl) meant the worst thing in the world. She also went on to say ‘ I want them to be good men like their daddy but mom (referring to me ) might mess it up’ and that she will need to toughen them up so they are strong like their daddy. Basically she said I was a failed parent before they even arrived. AWFUL to hear.

Continues below...

Final part

A fuss was made over the babies when they arrived from her via text - however she never called me I called her to show her them she never asked. It was only if i sent pictures or reached out to call ( which is very f*** exhausting when you’re a new mother dealing with twins). She said she couldn’t wait for me to come back home so she could see the kids xyz. 2 months later I fly back and take the kids. She lives right near to the airport but I would have never expected her to be waiting there to receive us. But maybe just maybe she would be as excited as he said she was and it is only a 5 minute drive away just maybe she would be in the arrivals hall. But no ofcourse she wasnt. I informed her well in advance what hotel I would be staying at and informed her (as she always wants me to chase her down) that I would not be lugging two new borns around without transportation (or in general) and will be based out of the hotel which she is welcomed to come to any time!!!! I don’t think she liked the idea of having to come to me. But of course its always about her and of course me having just had a c section with twins was being selfish and inconsiderate not to make my way to her. She came to visit the day after I arrived but unfortunately as all newborns do they sleep. You never wake a newborn baby and after the exhaustion of twins I wouldn’t have woke them for Jesus himself. She was very annoyed that I would not let her wake them for her visit. But i wouldn’t have for anyone. She stayed for an hour and then left unimpressed. I messaged her and tried to arrange the next day for her to come and she kept asking when they will be awake (obviously I have no clue because I’m new to this and I let the babies sleep as and when). She said she was coming that day but then canceled an hour after she was meant to be there saying she was eating a steak dinner. I didn’t expect much else from her so I ignored it and said ok well we can arrange two days next week and hang out all day and get lunch and have dinner together and take the babies out. She seemed excited, I was excited. It was raining the morning she was suppose to come and I had a feeling she would not show. She messaged me well into the afternoon and said she did not have transportation and if it was raining she would not be coming. I thought she was excited about the babies? so rain has stopped you from your grandchildren? Ok i didn’t want to argue I simply replied ok. The next scheduled day came and she didn’t show up again. Thats 3 times a try and I would be the fool no more. I can tell there was unspoken tension by this point and I had now been back an entire week and she only came the once while they were sleep. She finally sent a message from a different phone ( so that she didn’t have to reply on the iPad where it reminded her that she never attended our meetings) with a message saying what are the babies doing. I was just floored. She said that she would try and come with my friend only if my friend can get a car. I still can not fathom how she could not hop in a taxi, the bus anything or even have asked me for taxi fare if she didn’t have it (which she definitely does). Using any excuse not to come. SHe then said she is not sure about transportation and that she ‘guess she will have to wait until the children can come and see her’ At this point I had enough because It wasn’t about the kids it was about the control she wanted me to come to her all along and was mad that she had to go out of her way to come and see me and the kids. I let her have a piece of my mind (still ever respectful). She replied that she is my mother and that her grandchildren have not been presented to her in her arms. I was raging at this point because my children are not her property or some prize to be presented to her and I didn’t want any of this toxic woman energy to ever seep into my kids. How dare she! She went on to say that I am the cold and distant one and that I prevented her from letting her pick up her grandchildren (although they were sleeping so I guess that means I prevented her). And also that I have been avoiding her and quote ‘ Its all about me I am your mother”. I just couldn’t believe it… Did i not arrange 3 occasions for which you never showed up? Each time I tried and she failed to attend because she was harbouring anger because I did not let her wake them up when they had just gone to sleep and because I did not present them to her. And wait for it, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ALL ALONG HER BOYFRIEND WAS A TAXI DRIVER. Transportation was laying in your bed all along but you could never find a way to see your grandchildren you couldn’t wait to see. Now I’ve had enough of her, I vowed that I would never allow her toxic energy to seep into my kids but I fear that one day I will become her and my kids will secretly despise me as I do her. I was also scared to initially have children because I felt that if a mother can be how she was to me then it must not be easy to love a child? (this thought immediately disappeared upon having my children because I love them so much that I could bleed and this is why now all of this aches and haunts me more because if i love my kids this much how can she not love me the same? How can she ever have done these things to me! Just how!!! Im now fearful to have a daughter as maybe the relationship will end up like ours someway some how. Why does she hate me so much?

I have tried to have minimal conversation- no conversation, pleasant conversation. But there is always a way that everything is about her or turns hostile or a way where I must be passive in my response to avoid confrontation. Every time she makes contact she unloads her negative spew of hatred about how everyone is taking advantage of her in the world and abusing her by asking her to fulfil her job requirements and how she knows the law and is knowledgable and will fight everyone in court (this spans from every job she has ever had to family members who will not speak with her). Now she has moved in with my grandmother who is elderly and now other relatives do not want to visit because they will have to deal with her. She is a pit bull dog that guards the house and makes a by-passer never want to enter. In order to get through you must deal with her raft!

Her latest rant is that my elderly grandmother is abusive to her because she asked her if she could get her a christmas tree something for which she says is absolutely crossing the line. She is meant to be my grandmothers carer (paid for 4 hours a day) and says that she is ungrateful because she cooks her meals and turns the volume on the tv up and down throughout the day and how dare she ask for a christmas tree and she needs to find one of her other children to do it. Sad just so sad. I told her i thought it was a silly argument and that my grandmother was old and why is it such a bother for her to have a tree for she may never see another christmas. She absolutely did not like that I did not agree with her view that she was being abused by this and said that she expects me to be on her side. Because of this she did not speak to me for a few days which was in the lead up to our babies first Christmas (for which she says she now does not celebrate). I sent her pictures of the babies in and around the days before christmas, christmas eve and christmas day. No reply to anything. She finally messaged on boxing day with a picture of her and two strangers (who are apparently her friends) and stated who they are. How self serving can you be? Why would that be more important than acknowledging the pictures and videos of your grandchildren? I said fine to myself and settled with the fact that maybe she just not hates christmas that much. Days passed one of my babies first learned to walk so i sent her the video excitedly. She responded with the picture of an old neighbour stating its the neighbour and her grey cat. ARE YOU JOKING! and not until an hour an a bit after that did she acknowledge him walking but still then didn’t even say much. This is all very disturbing but I’ve learned to live with it and accept it as her way ( WHICH I AM SICK OF DOING). The straw that broke the camels back for me is when I had up a picture of a weight loss tracker for which she randomly attacked and made a comment saying “ that wont help you” I sarcastically replied thanking her for her support thinking it would make her reflect that she was being rude (but of course she is never in the wrong) She replied further saying you buy all these cute things let see cute results instead. I let her know that she was being negative and she laughed. I said it wasn’t funny and she laughed more.. Infact sent about 15 laughing faces. I told her that she was rude and it was an insecurity of mine and If she didn’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all. And she replied my child is touch and cute words will not inspire you . I let her know I was offended by it all and do you know what she said? She replied the exact words I said to her when I told her that the argument about my grandmothers christmas tree was silly ‘I am not going to say what you probably want to hear’ she said the truth is hard and I need to sift through what she said the best i can. I let her know again that she was rude, outright rude and her rude comments were unprovoked, unnecessary and unsolicited. I also left on the end that she should have a lovely day and I will be sure to teach my kids how to be kind to others. This may have struck a nerve as I haven’t heard from her since and Im sure now she is applying her silent treatment cooking up a story inside to tell others and bring shame to my name. She will certainly feel she was in the right and i was being a ‘drama queen’ taking things overboard. I may not hear from her for weeks. I don’t even want to hear from her as I feel like she is a burden on my life. I get anxious every time I see a text from her she dulls my light every time I speak to her. She has a hold on me that I cant shake and I would never in a million years be associated with anyone like this but because she is the mother I feel obligated.

I don’t expect anyone to have read this, its outrageously long I certainly don’t expect a reply. I am just so much more relieved that I have some form of thoughts written out for exactly how I feel and why I’m disgusted in her. I think my next step is therapy. I may one day be tempted to send this to her. She must know that I will be calling her out on her behaviour from now on instead of letting her have her way with me and accept it because she is the mother.

Thankful for this space to sort out my confusion.

@ashparo12 I did read all that you wrote, most of it with my mouth hanging open. What an awful person. I can see at least 10 occasions when you wanted her to be a certain type of mother - your wedding, your pregnancy, your travelling with twins, two months postpartum to see her, and she cancelled! Sadly, she has never, and will never act in the way you want her to, and be the nurturing, kind, equal party in a relationship. You need to mourn for that, and take strength from your own self esteem, your achievements, your family.

@Ashparo12 I have read your posts, and am stunned at how horrendous things have been, and are for you. I will reply, but due to disability problems may be tomorrow. Most important thing is to look after yourself.

Ashparo12
This will sound harsh, I don't mean it to be 💐

She does not love you. She is incapable of it.
You did nothing to deserve her appalling treatment. (Feeding and clothing are usually the absolute basics of parenting but even here she abjectly failed you).
You are stuck in the FOG. Therapy SHOULD be your first step. Find a therapist who understands NPD.
You need to stop reaching out to her. Let go of hope. She SHOULD be a better mother but she never will be.
Each time you hope she lets you down and this damages your self esteem every single time. Conversely giving her opportunities to disappoint you gives her all the power, attention and narcissistic supply. She enjoys this!
I would advise absolutely minimal contact (ideally none) and DO NOT give her access to your children.
Do you remember how worthless she made you feel as a child. Would you want that feeling for them?
Something I learned recently. I am the scapegoat. This is a permanent state of affairs. No reasonable efforts from me will change this.

I wish you well. Her appalling behaviour only reflects badly on her NOT YOU.

Try not to worry about turning into her. You won't. From experience I can say that the less contact you have with her the better parent you will be.💐💐

Ashparo

I have read all of your posts and would absolutely concur with the other respondents here re your own FOG and therapy (that is indeed your next step here). You need to find a therapist who both understands NPD and has no familial bias whatsoever about keeping families together. Your children need to be kept well away from your mother too. She has completely failed you as a parent and you need to be no contact with her too.

You are not your mother nor will turn into her, many adult children of narcissists have such groundless fears. You also have two qualities she is completely lacking in; empathy and insight. It is not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. You will need to let go of any hope she will change, apologise or even take any responsibility for her actions.

@suffragettestory thank you for your response and taking the time to read my situation. I agree I need to mourn what she has not and will never be to me. It is good for me to hear that others believe her actions are not normal and indeed outrageous. I wish you well on your personal journey as well.

@SimplySteve thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post. I will work on looking after myself and address the mental battle that I’m fighting in my head with her. Thank you

@fc301 thank you for taking the time to get through my post and reply as you have. I feel relieved that you’re confirming what I have thought for a long while is that she does not love me, I think it goes deeper that she also does not love herself. Please can you confirm if FOG is an acronym or just a figure of speech. Either way I am truly stuck in the FOG as you pointed out.

She will never be the mother I have wanted her to be and I don’t know why I’ve allowed this to wear me down instead of realising for what it is and find healing with it. Again, I agree with every point you have made. I am glad an objective person can see it for what it is straight up, no chaser. Thank you. I want to keep her away from my kids and my life but I also feel guilty and am in some shameful way concerned with what outsiders would say for me cutting off contact with us all. I believe they will think just because she is like that with you she will not be with them. But why does she deserve the chance when she has been cruel to me? As you say I will try to stand strong in keeping her away and reducing contact. I will be looking for a therapist soon.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my posts. Thank you for sharing my outrage and despair. I will be looking for a therapist to heal from all of this. Please can you confirm what NPD stands for so I’m searching for the correct therapist.

She has indeed failed me as a mother so thank you for pointing that out. Of all the times she has pushed in my face that she is the mother she never actually acted like one to me when it was most needed. I hurt about that and ache a loss that I didn’t have in that sense.

I will do my best to break the chains and keep her well away from the kids and myself as I’m certain she would taint them with her view point on me making me appear defect in some way.

Thank you for pointing out the reality of letting go of hope. She will never apologise and never has as she doesn’t rationalise as a normal person would. This has always been my struggle realising this. You all have no idea how much this has helped me already. Another person seeing that you are indeed not crazy.

FOG is Fear Obligation & Guilt. Something which ensnares us all.