"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2018, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Just read quite a few posts on here , my heart goes out to you all .
I have been nc with my dad for almost a year now at times it's been difficult especially this time of year . I'm still in contact with mum she is lovely nothing like dad but I feel she is weak for ignoring his behaviour. To cut a long story short my dad has always been moody and his mood very much up or down . If he's up all is great if he's down he is the most horrible person, just nasty hurtful for no reason . I sometimes think has he got some undiagnosed mental condition but then I think no that's a excuse he's just bloody nasty .
Anyway I cut contact after the final straw refusing to come to my ds birthday and sending me a nasty text message. There has been a attempt from him to contact, no apology just some emotional blackmail which I won't except.
I sometimes get annoyed with mum as she tells me he's sorry he knows he's wrong etc but why can't he say that to me ? I also think my mum should take some of the responsibility for his behaviour because ignoring it or pretending not happening. Like when I said he ignores me he walks out the room without speaking and she looks at me if no idea what I'm talking about which infuriates me . Why is it that others choose to except bad behaviour? I feel that's why he thinks it's ok to be like this . I constantly feel guilty for not wanting to see him at Christmas or special occasions but I don't understand why he can't be nice or civil to me my dh or dc what have we supposed to have done ? .

That was totally wrong, @wasthis she should have protected you, absolutely. There are sadly far too many women who fail to protect their children from the men in their lives.

My DM similarly has said that she knew that our F smacked us too hard regularly, but she never stepped in to stop him. She didn't know about the other things he was doing to us, but she knew about that. (She also smacked us herself.)

Sadly, she actually believed at the time that she was doing the right thing, as she had been taught that wives had to submit to their husbands. She's also justified it by saying that they didn't smack us for things other children would have been smacked for in those days. (We still ended up afraid of them both. I would hate to think of our DDs being afraid of us.)

Dontneedthedrama

Your mother is your dad,s enabler and I would think she would continue to choose him over you for her own reasons, none of which are about you or is any reflection on you as a person. This is all about her and her needs.

It may well be that her own father acted similarly towards her mother, what if anything do you know about her childhood. It is no justification or excuse for her behaviour.

I think she just likes to keep him sweet she admits that she has to walk on eggshells around him , I think she thinks it's not worth it . My mum has suffered depression for many years even when I was a child but I think my dads behaviour contributes to that . It's like he said once to me that I shouldn't allow my mum to drink as she's a alcoholic ( she rarely drinks ) . I think that's why he's so awful to me I refuse to be controlled by him I have my own mind and will call him out when he is unreasonable unlike my mum although at times she does loose it with him .

@Lizzie48 I'm way more angry with her than with him even though it was him doing the actual smacking.

I can understand that. Sometimes, like you, I do feel more angry at my DM, though in my case it's probably because my F is dead so it's easier to be angry at someone who is alive. And my DM is broken about not knowing about the SA so it's impossible to be angry at her about that.

But DM herself was physically abusive at times. (She even caned my DB once because he couldn't get his Maths homework right.). So she wasn't at all approachable, so how were we to know she would support us if we told her what else was happening at home??

It's so hard, isn't it?

@Lizzie48
That's terrible, very disturbing that parents did and still do think it's ok for dc to be frightened of parents. Perhaps it's how they are brought up but surely they must know that's wrong.

@dontneedthedrama
I know what you mean. Tbf, my DM now does agree that corporal punishment is wrong. But she's always had the impression that she was approachable. She insists that she always showed us that she loved us. But the emotion she showed us most often was anger, and she says that this was because she loved so wasn't able to be firm and calm like she was when she was a schoolteacher.

I explained to her that as children how were we meant to know that she got angry with us because she loved us. It only made us afraid of her. (I don't think she realised that we were afraid of her.)

I'm going to hide this thread. It's nothing personal, just I'm finding it difficult. I'll pop back when I'm better able to cope. I don't want people to think I'm ignoring them. I'm not.

I was told about Stately Homes by a friend. My heart goes out to everyone, I wish there wasn't a need for a thread like this but even though I'm definitely not a regular on MN, I'm glad that it exists - makes me feel less alone.

My dad was (still is actually) an alcoholic, and was a violent one at that. I often wonder, now that I'm 38, whether he had some messed up issues from his childhood but I don't really care tbh, as he beat me so many times. One of my worst memories is of him trying to strangle me outside the social club of the hospital where he worked at around midnight. I can't have been older than 10 or 11 years old. I think my 'crime' was telling him I wanted to go home, or telling him to stop smoking. I'll never ever forget the look on his face, just pure hatred. I was beaten, not just smacked, from when I was about 8 years old up until I was too strong for him, so in my early 20s.

I feel ashamed of myself that I didn't cut contact with him before this year. But when he was sober and in a good mood, he was a good person. That's what's made it so complex in my mind for me. I blamed the alcohol for years but when he got in a bad mood, even without alcohol, he would use his fists/feet. I once hid from him in the bathroom of our childhood home and he kicked the door in, busting the lock, and beat me. I remember wondering what would happen if I just lay there and took it but my instinct was to try and resist. I hate myself for letting him walk me down the aisle but both him and my mum put on such a pretence for other people, with both of them (especially my mum) often telling me that I "wonder why I get hit". So for years I thought it was my fault. I played along with the pretence of the happy family as it was so much easier to do, and it was a better atmosphere. Of course, I kept that all repressed. My mum wasn't approachable at all. Not only did she blame me, but she never ever told me she loved me and she was so pushy as well - I played music as a kid and she pushed me far too hard, even though I hated it as a teenager. I know she's still disappointed that I dropped music and ended up in marketing but she doesn't say as much, just shows total lack of interest. She was totally controlling.

On the occasions that I did speak out when I'd had enough of everything, I got told that I "always came running when I wanted something" (I didn't but I'd been brainwashed into thinking the abuse was my fault). I was so repressed that the anxieties caused by the abuse manifested in health anxiety at age 13, which grew so severe that my husband made me call a psychologist after a serious panic attack where he found me crying with my back against the radiator, convinced that I had cancer (I didn't). I was 33, and it took me a year of CBT to learn how to cope with it, thankfully I managed to kick it and if I get an attack I know how to cope with it.

When I had my son in 2016 my parents came over and I HATED the sight of my dad holding him and speaking to him, like he was this perfect granddad. But more than that, I hated myself for thinking that my innocent newborn son could have a role in changing a dysfunctional family dynamic. He was just a baby - his only role should have been that of a grandchild.

In the late autumn of this year, my sister came to visit and we had a very rare chat about our childhood. It brought up a lot of things for me, things that I'd been made to keep buried, and (especially now I'm pregnant again) I've now made the decision to go low contact with my mother (who should have protected me) and no contact with my father (who I refuse to have in my children's lives). I wrote to my mother to tell her what had been going on in my head, and she was ultra defensive, and played a victim card (as usual). I'm on better terms with her now, but they are my terms and even though I felt guilty as hell at first, I feel so much stronger for it.

My dad hasn't even tried to contact me. Even though I'm the one who went no contact there's still a part of me that is upset that he's not even trying .... why is that?? I don't want him in my life so surely I should be pleased that there's no aggro there, so why does part of me feel he should be trying? I guess I want an apology or for him to show remorse, but I'd be wasting my time with that.

Sorry for the long post.

@LilleVen

I can understand that you want some kind of apology or remorse from him. that's why it's so difficult to understand with abusive parents whether physical or emotional they don't want to admit they are wrong. Why ? Who knows . As a parent I could never hate my child but yes with abuse it's like they hate you . Like you say it's best to have nc and try and move on with your dc .

@SingingLily Thank you so much for your reply. I read it over and over and even had a little cry because you are a very kind person to have written so much to me, and also because your sister's story really does sound a lot like my own! As sad as it is to hear of somebody else going through the same, it's also a little comforting too if that makes sense.

I do truly hope that me worrying so much about being a good parent at least means I'll never be as bad as my own. I get easily annoyed by my children and snap a lot, and can have quite high expectations. I don't know why, maybe it's related to my childhood and maybe not. But I try my best to be more kinder, and I always say sorry if I feel I've gone to far, and we hug and say I love you lots of times a day. They are my world and I tell them so. I hope that's enough but i still worry and I have wondered recently if maybe some counselling for myself might be a good idea, to help me work things out and break the cycle a bit.

My children have seen my parents shout and belittle me and they've seen me cry about it afterwards. They know I don't like to be around them. I've explained gently that Nan and Grandad weren't as nice to me when I was little as they are to them, but they don't really understand and I can't tell them enough to make them understand without going too far. They adore their grandparents, and I do fear that actually they side with them over me. They get spoilt rotten and loved with them, whereas I'm harsh and snappy.

With regards to avoiding them at Christmas, I actually used to go back home every couple of months but I've reduced that to about twice a year now for these reasons. I've tried to get out of Christmas before with the work/commitments excuses but that just led to them inviting themselves to stay with us and that's even worse, so I just go there now and then I can escape sooner. But I'm so tired of going back there, sleeping in my old room and having all those memories flood back. It's like being a helpless child again. And I look at the way they both treat my children and how amazing they are and think why can't they be like that with me? My children have me to love and protect them, but I still have nobody. Oddly as well, my daughter is their favourite and they tell me often how much she reminds them of me. It breaks me, although I'm very happy for my daughter to be so loved. She deserves it and I couldn't take that away from her

Pineapple

A good rule of thumb here is that if your parents are too toxic/difficult/batshit for you to deal with it’s the same deal for your children as well. Your parents have and continue to fail you and in turn your children here utterly. I would keep well away from your parents going forward and you need to further protect them from such malign influences. Children tend to give love indiscriminately and do not realise that not all grandparents are nice to be at all around.
I would think that your parents buy their affections and use them also to get back at you as their mother. I would give them the full age appropriate truth re their nan and grandad. Distraction techniques work too if they bring up the subject of their grandparents. They do not need to keep on receiving mixed messages from their grandparents ie bring nice to them whilst acting crap toward you. You would not have tolerated this from a friend and they are no different. Toxic parents more often than not make for being toxic as grandparents too

@AttilaTheMeerkat I really don't think that's the case for us here and I honestly believe, as much as I'd truly love to cut my parents out, that I'd be doing a damage or disservice to my children. To my children, my parents are wonderful. Never snapped at them, never lost their temper, don't let the children get away with too much and are basically everything I ever wanted them to be for me. They are still awful to me and yes my children see that but I think I'm best sucking that up and letting my kids have a good relationship with them than ending it and being blamed by my children forever for that. If when my kids grow up they see it for themselves then I'll support them if they want to have no contact, but I can't make that decision for them while they are getting so many benefits from having their grandparents in their life.

Pineapple

You would only be harming your children if you were to continue contact with your parents. You are the parent here, not they, and they do not know what your parents are really like. Why would cutting out your parents who treat you like crap damage them? It would not do this and your fears re your kids hating you going forward are unfounded and likely based on your own fear obligation and guilt re your parents, they seeing you as their mother sucking it up is very damaging sand they could carry that into their own adult relationships too. I would urge you to think about all this some more and yes do get counselling from a back registered therapist

You need to find someone who fits in with your approach and has no familial basis about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Back registered therapist

Bloody predictive text!

Bacp registered therapist

Interview such people carefully before using any particular one person

Many such people like your parents pineapple also have a favourite and in your case it’s your daughter. Do not ever think that your other children do not already notice that she is their fave because they do and know, that could also harm their sibling relationship

How do you know what type of counsellor to look for?

Bacp is a good place to start and you trust your gut

You really do need to find someone who fits in with your approach so the first one you talk to may not be the right one. A person who has no familial bias about keeping families together would also be a requirement

Thanks Attila. I’ll take a look.

hello :)

I'm looking for some advice and have been told to come here as it'll be the most applicable. Me and my mum have always had a strange relationship even since I was 12 (I'm 22 now) and I'm on my last thread so to speak.

In no way am I saying I don't love the woman but at the same time she seems to always come out with the snide comments or expects everyone to kiss her arse, I sometimes think it may just be me as I have two older siblings; one doesn't speak to her anymore and is exactly like her and the eldest is trying to help me with this but doesn't seem to understand the situation very well. I'm currently at university so I can't exactly have no contact as I still need to speak to her for student finance and I do technically still live with her away from my uni home.

So some background of recent events; my parents have recently moved to a building I can no longer stay comfortably (almost like a care home) which is their choice so fair enough, this is shortly after a family death that has hit her hard in particular. She will not get professional help with this matter. So essentially every time I come back from uni (Christmas, once every two months to see them and Summer) she always manages to cause drama. This is usually social media based. So as I don't have time to wait on her hand and foot since exams are coming up, she's being very petty. I've tried and better tried to organise things we could do together (plus dad) and every one she has shot down as she is 'ill' or 'busy' or whatever excuse she can come up with. She waited for me to leave their house in the night since I no longer feel welcome there and then sent a nasty message stating I do not support her, she's having a tough time, no one spends time with her blah blah blah. I have not responded to this since I have tried and better tried to spend time with her. (We sometimes get along) This happens frequently, usually a similar thing but she doesn't quite grasp that everyone has something going on and I cannot drop everything to spend three days getting her to talk to me. My best friend overdosed the other night so I took them to A&E and she somehow made it about her saying no one would do that for her.

Obviously the situation could be a lot worse, but alongside Uni and my own life I cannot deal with this 24/7, it really makes me not want to talk to her but that's genuinely not even an option. She's incredibly jealous of mine and my fathers relationship; bare in mind I hardly see him with his work commitments so we spend most of the time watching a film together. I do feel as though she is the child and I have to tiptoe on eggshells and I just want to know how to approach this as I'm sick of getting upset from what she says and her behaviour. Do I talk to her? Do I carry on as normal? I have no idea, the usual approach is 'sorry tell me all of your problems' and I just can't do that anymore. Any advice is helpful. (SORRY ITS SO LONG)

Thank you @SingingLily , you’re right, it’s not easy. I initially had periods where I was feeling quite high from the freedom and pretty proud I suppose of the strength I’d finally mustered but that’s gone now.

My mum doesn’t know any of my friends, she never liked anyone anyway but when she couldn’t poison my friendships she would ignore they existed, as in took no interest whatsoever, I doubt she even knows their first names. I’m not directly in touch with any of my family either as everything went through her, it went so far as she still put my name on the Christmas cards she sent. I suppose this means that she’s pretty stuck now on who to approach and would explain why she marched round to the home of someone so loosely connected.

I think also, peddling the story that I have not wanted anything to do with her since I married probably suits her narrative. She gets to be victim, I get to be scapegoated even in my absence and for extra points ‘this’ is pretty much the tale her sister tells about her daughter too ie that she met a man and thus excluded her own mother.

That is how I feel but I don’t know if it’s true. It feels true, It’s factual but yet I wonder if it’s me that’s crazy and ungrateful. I really struggle with that because although I feel I should and could and have been mad/annoyed I don’t actually want to hurt her in case I’ve got it totally wrong. It’s all so confusing.

I’ve given myself a month and if I have more bad days or circular days than good I’m going to consider therapy.

I really do appreciate all the support you’ve given, you and everyone.

@pinapple22

I'm glad you have opened up a little more about what is happening with your parents but oh, pineapple22, I could cry for you.

"My children have seen my parents shout and belittle me and they've seen me cry about it afterwards. They know I don't like to be around them."

"Oddly as well, my daughter is their favourite..."

It's my sister, my lovely DSis, all over again. Your parents are playing divide-and-rule, not only between you and your children but between your children themselves. My cold selfish mother is a grandmaster at this. She, the woman who could never bring herself to hug two of her own three daughters, would throw her arms open wide to my two little nieces and exclaim "My angels!" and they would run to her. And all the while, my DSis would stand there in utter misery. Pineapple22, do you not see? Your parents couldn't care less about their grandchildren. Your children are simply useful to them so that (a) they can demonstrate to the world that they are the perfect grandparents, just as they probably pride themselves on being the perfect parents, and (b) so they can inflict more pain on you.

Please please ask yourself what damage is it doing to your children to see their mother belittled and reduced to tears before their very eyes? And what sort of life lesson will they learn from witnessing your parents' Jekyll and Hyde behaviour firsthand? That it's all right to treat some of your family like royalty while you treat the rest like dirt? Because that's the lesson my middle sister learned all too well. She is my mother's daughter all right, and now history repeats itself. She dotes on her self-absorbed son but not on her lovely, kind and open-hearted daughter.

I'm afraid Attila is right. She always provides the clearest and sanest advice at these times and she is right once more. You would not be damaging your children by removing them from their grandparents' baleful influence. You would be protecting them. Because - and I am sorry to tell you this because it is hard to hear - when your children are no longer useful to your parents, your parents will turn on them.

I can't give specifics without outing myself but M inflicted a subtle little cruelty on her "angels" quite recently. I wasn't there because I'm NC with my mother but DSis told me. She and DBiL keep careful watch over any interaction between M and their children but DSis was momentarily distracted so DBiL swooped over to intervene. Even self-absorbed middle sister noticed and tried to smooth things over. The girls were too busy playing so probably, hopefully, didn't notice but for my DSis, it was the last straw. I think it unlikely that M will see her grandchildren again. Thank God.

It isn't easy for you, pineapple22, because you don't have a sibling to look out for you but counselling is a good idea. In the meantime, remember that you are a survivor and now I implore you to be brave on behalf of your children.

@NoraButty

"yet I wonder if it’s me that’s crazy and ungrateful. I really struggle with that"

It's the first NC Christmas for both of us and of course it's hard. Of course we have days when we doubt ourselves and wonder whether we can trust our feelings or instincts, given that we've had to bury and ignore them for so long.

When the scales first fell from my eyes, I went through a period of emotional madness when long-buried memories bubbled up to haunt me once more. My inner child was wounded once more. But adult me, logical rational me, tried to be fair, tried to recall all the nice things my mother had done for me. After all, she's my mother so she must have done something right, mustn't she? I tried to recall even the smallest thing that would challenge my negative thoughts about my own mother and prove I was the crazy one. So I asked my DH - a blunt Northerner who doesn't mince his words - whether my mother had ever hugged me. He said, "X, in the nearly thirty years we've been together, she's never hugged you. You hug her. She just stands there and endures it. You know she's not right in the head, don't you?"

Didn't you once say that you'd known your OH for ten years before you confessed that your mother wasn't a very nice person? And he said that he'd known she was weird from first meeting her but thought everyone was too polite to mention it? Your OH, my DH, in agreement. If you doubt your own instincts - and oh yes, I know exactly how that feels - then trust your OH's. The colleague's son episode was crazy behaviour. No ifs or buts. Ignoring the fact of your marriage is crazy behaviour. No ifs or buts.

You are not crazy or ungrateful, Nora. You are just having a tough time de-toxing, that's all - and that's exactly how a normal reasonable person would react. Counselling would be a good idea if you can find the right one but in the meantime, please try and trust yourself. You will get there.