Can I forgive DH in this unusual situation?

[BubbleFizz1]

I've never posted here before but I've seen such helpful support for others and now I'm hoping I can find that for myself. My DH and I have been together for nearly 17 truly happy years, married for 5. We have 3 DC aged 7 and under.

A few weeks ago my marriage was shaken in such an unforeseeable way. I found out that my DH and a long standing male friend/ex colleague have had a handful of sexual interactions over the last 10 years. This man joked about it to a mutual friend who told me. When confronted DH says it's been nothing more than a lingering fondle through clothes or underwear that became a 'running joke' and always happened when they were both heavily under the influence of alcohol (confirmed by friend). I've never been keen on said friend who cheats unashamedly and is known to have groped both other males and females inappropriately on nights out, but I'm not trying to minimise and DH has admitted that he initiated contact on 2 occasions. He insists there's no attraction on his part, there was no pleasure gained and that he's not bisexual. They no longer work together and the friend has moved away.

What are people's thoughts on this? Has he cheated on me? I love him with everything I have, he's been a model husband and father and ultimately want to stay with him but how do I begin to process the fact this has hurt me in a way I just never thought myself vulnerable to by him? I'm struggling to keep up the pretence that all is fine to family, friends and colleagues and how to communicate with DH after this. I know it's a very unusual situation but any advice is welcome. Thank you for reading.

I've seen a group of drunken men in the pub, pretending to snog each other or have sex with each other - it's not necessarily an indication of sexual misbehaviour, because it's all out in the open, and their various girlfriends/wives were there, and thus aware of this 'laddish banter.' It's almost like they were showing off at how comfortable they are with each other.

Haha, no problem. Worryingly, I think getting an email about some sod from mumsnet woould be more exciting than about 99.9% of the stuff in my inbox!

Have you seen him drunk with his mates OP? Is it v. blokey and bantering like some folk are describing? You see my DP is not with that kind of crowd - either in or outside work - so I'd KNOW something was very wrong if I heard the kind of story you did. But, reading what others here have said, it sounds like if it is that sort of a crowd then maybe this is just part of that, depending on what happened. Like you say, you need more information and time to clear your head.

It’s a bit confusing! A group of mates grabbing each other’s bolloxs, in a jokey way or is it fondling each other, alone in a sexual way?

stellarparallax
Sounds more like your gay friends wishes as to how straight men behave than an accurate description. I don't know any straight guys who would look to another man to cop a feel nor suggest a blow job (receiving, let alone giving!!) after a few drinks. Do straight women offer the equivalent after a few proseccos? A cheeky lick and a bit of fingering? I doubt it.

Good grief. You'd be nuts to end your marriage over this. I've lost track of the number of male friends who've given my bollocks a friendly fondle or tried to snog me on nights out. My DP is aware as it's happened while shes been out with us, but its not something I'd have ever felt the need to mention to her if she hadn't, because its a complete non-event. It's not sexual for anyone involved, its more of a "Har har har look at us pretending to be gay"

Without pants and just in underwear?

I don't know any straight guys who would look to another man to cop a feel

You think you don't. You probably also think you don't know any men who would rape, sexually harass or catcall at women.

It’s obvious he’s bisexual, he’s getting turned on by touching other men and having them touch him.
(Yeah, yeah, he’s claimed it’s not sexual but ffs, that’s an absurd excuse, no fully heterosexual Male would repeatedly fondle and be fondled by another man)

Surely the problem for you op is that he’s been cheating? Doesn’t really matter which sex it’s with.

I doubt they took their trousers off in the middle of the pub...

Although, back in the day, some pretty interesting stuff did used to go on around the place! It all seems to have calmed down, our locals are all mitre or less sober, middle aged and strictly trousers on three days!

I don't think anyone knows how they'd react, but I don't think I'd make a big deal out of it.

If he has had sex, particularly unprotected, with the other man and lied to you, then you could be at risk of STDs and I'd really rethink the marriage.

If it really was nothing more than groping, within a certain type of public setting, I wouldn't be happy about it, least of all to have found out about it now, but I think I'd work through the relationship, as it seems to be worth keeping.

@fdgdfgdfgdfg - Its childish as fuck, but its not cheating. And I've seen women do the same thing to each other too, quick snog or a boob honk.

I agree, it is a weird thing some guys do for 'bants', it's childish but not always a sign of being bisexual etc. Fine to be angry about it and not want it happening again, but I wouldn't immediately LTB over it. Marriage counselling might be a good idea though.

I can understand how awful you're feeling, but I think it would be tragic to let this throw away a happy marriage and probably wreak havoc over five lives, without a) effort and b) time, to try and work through this.

It's irrelevant where other people "draw the line", or whether they label his actions as "cheating" or not. All that matters is how you feel and whether you can build some trust again. You can. And if you decide you want to, you will. It will take time though. I think it sounds as though you're doing the right things. Good luck.

It has clearly, understandably, shocked and upset you 💐

First thing though, do not speak to his ‘friend’ about it. You don’t like like the guy anyway, he has form as a cheat and a liar. No good will come of talking to him.

Secondly, this absolutely does not have to be the end of your marriage and you do not have to make that decision immediately either.

I would say it doesn’t matter if the other person is male or female if a partner has been having an emotional affair or actual sex with someone else. ThIs, is not that.

It’s something everyone else who doesn’t do it struggles to understand the mentality of, totally straight men doing this stupid greeting/post match man grope. One of my male friends is a really lovely bloke, but part of that whole rugby scene that act like this. He is straight, nothing repressed, no interest in men sexually. I know him inside out, he would definitely tell me if this wasn’t the case. Absolutely. I don’t understand why they do it, neither does he. But it’s not sexual.

I have another male friend too who has very definitely opened my eyes to things I would would have previously viewed quite differently and been adamant about. I am now far less rigid in my views that doing x automatically means y. I can understand that people who haven’t had these discussions might still think differently, I would have.

It’s understandable that you’re confused about what this means, but I honestly believe that it’s could be exactly what your DH has said it is. An unexplainable thing this group of blokes (and many other groups of blokes) does, in a pub/locker room way. Nothing more. Nothing ‘cheating/affair’ about it any way.

Imo it is not the same, at all, as discovering your DH has been unfaithful/cheating on you, emotionally and/or sexually. Secretly meeting up to ‘be together’ or have sex. This is an odd thing done in a public place amongst mates.

However, you need to give yourself time to process it and decide what it means to you & in your marriage.

I would stay home this weekend, get your Christmas tree etc just process it in your background thoughts.

All I can say is that I wouldn't be throwing away a 17 year relationship, with a fabulous husband & dad, who has always made me feel very secure and treasured because of this stupid behaviour. BUT YOU have every right to do what is right for you 🌷

I don't think it quite adds up. For the 'friend' to be talking/joking about himself and your husbands encounters then he must see it as above and beyond what he does with other males as a form of greeting.

The friend also obviously took it as something worthy of telling you so I think your husband may be minimising what's actually gone on.

You also say it's over underwear sometimes so presumably not all encounters have been in a public place?

I suspect there's more too it than some weird greeting ritual.

You think you don't. You probably also think you don't know any men who would rape, sexually harass or catcall at women.

Catcall - no, I know quite a few who would, will, do
Harass - hmmm, I've known some who've trod close to the line of persistence/enthusiasm and the need to back off
Rape - I'm glad to say I do not believe I know anyone who would do this.

I have, however, spent much time in the company of many straight men in all levels of inebriation; none of whom have decided to try a guy. I suspect your gay friend tends to encounter men who don't fit the straight label quite so well - even if not outwardly gay/bi/pan

This thread has gone from "A friend of my husband's told a mutual friend of theirs about sexual interactions he and my husband have had over the last 10 years", to "It's just banter that groups of blokes do when joking about in a bar/dressing room". Personally I doubt the husband's friend would have 'confided' in a mutual friend if it was just the typical pratting about type stuff that happens within a male friendship group. Massive minimising going on here. I hope you get some answers OP, this must be very hard for you.

Tip of the iceberg. He’s gay. Some women might be able to live with it.
A friend of mine does. She didn’t find out til they’d been married 25yrs plus.

Totally don't get this thread!
If it really was jokey stuff about the pair of them having a grope then why all this angst.
I think there is a lot being unsaid.

Op, I can categorically assure you straight men do not "lingeringly fondle " each other's genitalia by way of greeting.

Do you lingeringly fondle your female friends Vulva when you see them? I'm assuming not.

I work in a male dominated environment, I've been out with drunk men more than I can count, and I've never once witnessed two men lingeringly fondle each other's cocks.

Have you?

As a minimin he's bi sexual. He fancies his mate. But in terms of cheating does it matter if it's a man or woman whose genitalia he is fondling?

If, as lots of people are saying on here, it's something certain GROUPS of men do in a rugger buggers banter kind of way, then why has it happened repeatedly with only the one guy? It's clearly NOT the group culture, it's something just between the two of them. And that's why I wouldn't be happy about it.

In afraid I'd be offering an ultimatum - either he tells you the truth about his sexuality or he gets the hell out.
Simple.

I wonder what really went on between them and why it's coming out now. This quick, public fondling of each other's tackle sounds extremely unlikely.

Men give the penis poke greeting, women have the boob honk. I think we forget that while writing here we are stone cold sober and can’t imagine this, but these shenanigans happen when you have a pint or five so sprits are well high and people get closer to each other than normal.

I've written a list of questions and we're going to talk tonight. Thanks to everyone who has given their thoughts, it's been useful to hear so many opinions and it has helped me focus the direction of our conversation.