Can I forgive DH in this unusual situation?

[BubbleFizz1]

I've never posted here before but I've seen such helpful support for others and now I'm hoping I can find that for myself. My DH and I have been together for nearly 17 truly happy years, married for 5. We have 3 DC aged 7 and under.

A few weeks ago my marriage was shaken in such an unforeseeable way. I found out that my DH and a long standing male friend/ex colleague have had a handful of sexual interactions over the last 10 years. This man joked about it to a mutual friend who told me. When confronted DH says it's been nothing more than a lingering fondle through clothes or underwear that became a 'running joke' and always happened when they were both heavily under the influence of alcohol (confirmed by friend). I've never been keen on said friend who cheats unashamedly and is known to have groped both other males and females inappropriately on nights out, but I'm not trying to minimise and DH has admitted that he initiated contact on 2 occasions. He insists there's no attraction on his part, there was no pleasure gained and that he's not bisexual. They no longer work together and the friend has moved away.

What are people's thoughts on this? Has he cheated on me? I love him with everything I have, he's been a model husband and father and ultimately want to stay with him but how do I begin to process the fact this has hurt me in a way I just never thought myself vulnerable to by him? I'm struggling to keep up the pretence that all is fine to family, friends and colleagues and how to communicate with DH after this. I know it's a very unusual situation but any advice is welcome. Thank you for reading.

@BubbleFizz1

Look - sexuality is a spectrum. Some people are on the every edges, some are less clearly so.
And for women - touching and hugging other women is a lot more acceptable by the society than it is for men...
Clearly for him - there’s been some curiosity when he was young - and he acted on it with this specific friend...
And over years, when alcohol was there and inhibitions low - it came back a little.
People often push boundaries and do ‘forbidden’ things. Alcohol does helps it. And - it’s entirely possible they did it to be ‘naughty’ rather than for sexual kicks...
It’d have been easier to swallow if it were an odd joint. But in essence - it’s what it was. Just a little thrill, naughtiness. I think, anyway.

I don’t think your H is secretly bi-sexual and pining for men. Or he’d have seeked it with other men too.

Shocked as you are - I think the societal view of male sexuality adds to it.
Plenty of women get drunk and have an odd kiss/feel of s boob - and are not suspected of being closeted lesbians.

Anyway. I hope you get through this. It’s not worth it to throw away a marriage and a family over it

Now you have this I’m even more of an opinion it’s all done in a joking manner when greeting or leaving. I wouldn’t class this as cheating. Cheating is vindictive and cunning, this is homey banter. Not really how you want your Hubby to behave and it needs to not happen again but it’s not an affair, it’s how hey greet each other in a silly way, a lot of men so it x

Some men have really weird sense of humours when in groups together. If there's been no kissing and this is something this other guy regularly does then probably they see it as some weird joke. TBF when I think about myself and a friend used to make weird sexual jokes about each other. There was 100% no desire behind it.

If there is nothing sexual or emotional behind it I don't think I would consider it cheating.

Did your DH not want to be seen as a 'spoil sport' and ruin the 'joke'?

The guy told a friend that he’s been having sexual interactions with your dh?

Your dh says it was all just clean fun?

I don’t think so.

He's been "greeting" people with a "lingering fondle"?

What makes me uneasy is the unconvincing explanation. It just doesn't make sense or seem complete, which troubles me. It feels off.

I absolutely have always said I couldn't be with someone I couldn't trust, then when this happens to your life, your family, your marriage it's suddenly really hard to gather that adamance that was so confidently there before.

Of course, that's only natural. The people who immediately respond with "right, see ya!" are vanishingly rare.

Take your time. Gather your thoughts. Trust your instincts. Think about where you will be 5 years from now, and what you can live with - tough choices now for better long term outcome, or less painful choices now for harder long term outcome (I know it's not this black and white, but just think about the trade off and where you're going to draw the line for yourself.)

Don't rush yourself or beat yourself up for having a completely human response to such a shock.

And take care of yourself.

A lingering fondle through underwear?

You really need some clarity here.

Man or woman he has been cheating on you for 10 years!!!!!!

Game over.

Yes, there is a lot of vagueness here, has he been vague or you on here?

You said through clothes, but then through underwear, which would mean that they somehow found themselves without their trousers on together.

I don't think you have the full story, especially as you said the man was laughing about sexual encounters, not just the touching he appears to do to everyone, this seems like more.

Op, please re read nothing on tellys post, she’s right. This sort of horseplay is nt unheard of in a drunken jokey context. And is done because they are straight and there’s no sexual pleasure in it. I would forget it, and remain friends with the other like but I might re assess my opinion of the shot storing friend

I agree it's vague. I need to ask the difficult questions and gain complete clarity about each and every time plus any potential fluidity regarding sexuality. I will show him this thread tonight and try to get to the bottom of it and reassess from there. I am also considering speaking to 'friend' to get his point of view directly. Although I am considering all responses, thanks to those who have provided a less life destroying point of view, I know that this could end us but I hope it won't and those posts, naively or not, are giving me something to hold on to.

Maybe don't show him the thread, but write down what you want to ask him. Keep the thread for you as a safe space.

Good grief. You'd be nuts to end your marriage over this. I've lost track of the number of male friends who've given my bollocks a friendly fondle or tried to snog me on nights out. My DP is aware as it's happened while shes been out with us, but its not something I'd have ever felt the need to mention to her if she hadn't, because its a complete non-event. It's not sexual for anyone involved, its more of a "Har har har look at us pretending to be gay"

Its childish as fuck, but its not cheating. And I've seen women do the same thing to each other too, quick snog or a boob honk.

If you don't like it, tell him so and ask him not to do it again, but you'd be an idiot to up-end yours and your kids lives over it.

They've been hiding this behaviour for a long time. If you go asking them for information you'll be none the wiser. So is there any point? The 'friend' is a shit stirrer. He was the one that made sure this got back to you.
I guarantee he will get off on you asking him for more info as it puts him in a position of power. And he can say whatever he want, there is nothing to make him tell the truth. Why give him the satisfaction?

I'm sorry to say this but if it were me, I'd go for an STD check as my next move, and not say anything until I had the results.

I would be very worried that your DH is minimising and only telling you what he wants you to know about it and not the full extent. For example, "through clothes or underwear" - well, they are very different. Fully dressed is one thing. Down to underwear is far more serious and if he's admitting to underwear I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was more than that. Can you get any more details from the mutual friend who told you?

I don't know if I could forgive him, in your shoes, but if I were prepared to give him another chance he would have to agree never go out drinking with this crowd again and never see this particular man again in any circumstances. If he is not willing to agree to this then it tells you all you need to know.

I think you should see if your husband is willing to go to counselling with you in the new year and discuss it there. Problem is, you have no way of knowing if there is more to this or not. I don't think most straight guys would do this for a laugh. I also know work colleagues who are 'model husband's and one of them is a serial cheat, you would never ever guess from anything about him - I only know because he once told me. If I were you I'd do some digging. Sorry this has happened, I can imagine how you might be feeling. Hope you don't discover anything more op.

"Josuk Wed 28-Nov-18 13:30:18

Look - sexuality is a spectrum. Some people are on the every edges, some are less clearly so.
And for women - touching and hugging other women is a lot more acceptable by the society than it is for men..."

But most of us don't "fondle" our female friends on the vagina (!?)

I think you need more details OP. If it's a "rugby club" blokes thing (whatever the fuck that is - glad my DP doesn't play rugby) then a lot of people here seem to be saying that they would be ok with this. But if you're talking off in a corner fondling each other through underwear/there's a sexual response type encounter, then in my view that is something very different.
Myself, I know if my DP touched anyone of either gender in the latter way I would be appalled and see it as a betrayal. Thankfully DP has male friends who aren't the drunken/physical bantering type so the former wouldn't be an issue.

Honestly, there have been a couple of very different threads on here lately, which have lead me to think that I'm a bit closed off when it comes to the touch-feely thing with friends, but at least life is certainly a hell of a lot simpler if you just don't touch people in a questionable way!

I think you are turning this into something it's not... and for what you've described it's definitely not cheating. certain male friendship groups find this kind of thing very amusing. My husband and his friends are definitely one of them. They are big attention seekers after a few drinks and it is definitely no surprise when one of them strips off or they get a bit handsy with one another. He's told you it's just banter and not sexual, so why after 17 years of a happy marriage, wouldn't you believe him and just laugh it off too?

fdgdfgdfgdfg For ten years you’ve had lingering fondles through underwear/sexual interactions secretly with your colleagues?
Wow.

Man hugs and arse slaps can be part of locker-room type behaviour. Faux-camp behaviour is fairly common amongst hetro guys too. Never known anyone go for genitalia unless it was a big showy group-level wind-up; and never ever 'lingering'. And (feels a bit odd to write this) the fact that it's the one person is a bit strange - if this was group in-joke, why not the rest of the group?

One poster said you should hit the roof. Hard. Which'll probably ensure that he never risks coming to you with honesty any time he messes up in some way.

@Helmetbymidnight Not sure where you've got the 10 years figure or the secretly? Its generally been in the middle of the pub with plenty of other people around, and its been going on ever since we all started drinking so a good sight more than 10 years, although its less frequent these days as we all begrudgingly grow up.

I've always been fully clothed, but I can easily see it happening in a rugby club changing room when people are in their undercrackers

Meh. From what my gay male friends tell me, the difference between a straight man and a bisexual is about 5 pints. Lots of straight blokes cop a feel or suggest a blow job if they're a bit pissed, and it doesn't make them bisexual, just drunk and up for it.

Please dont @ me.

Oh so your circumstances are not the same as the ops dh, are they? Quite different in fact.

Would DH stop drinking completely and never socialise with this group again if you asked him to? Do you think he is prepared to change job to somewhere with a less blokey, banter type of culture?

You are doing the right thing by not making any quick decisions and going away for the weekend, because you are still in shock.

Sorry, thought the @ thing was just a formatting thing, how you bolded someones name.

No, its not identical to the OPs circumstances, but I thought it was close enough that it was worth posting.

Sorry for being abrupt- yeah you get an email, and I get my exciting email ring tone only to find it’s some sod from mumsnet