Can I forgive DH in this unusual situation?

[BubbleFizz1]

I've never posted here before but I've seen such helpful support for others and now I'm hoping I can find that for myself. My DH and I have been together for nearly 17 truly happy years, married for 5. We have 3 DC aged 7 and under.

A few weeks ago my marriage was shaken in such an unforeseeable way. I found out that my DH and a long standing male friend/ex colleague have had a handful of sexual interactions over the last 10 years. This man joked about it to a mutual friend who told me. When confronted DH says it's been nothing more than a lingering fondle through clothes or underwear that became a 'running joke' and always happened when they were both heavily under the influence of alcohol (confirmed by friend). I've never been keen on said friend who cheats unashamedly and is known to have groped both other males and females inappropriately on nights out, but I'm not trying to minimise and DH has admitted that he initiated contact on 2 occasions. He insists there's no attraction on his part, there was no pleasure gained and that he's not bisexual. They no longer work together and the friend has moved away.

What are people's thoughts on this? Has he cheated on me? I love him with everything I have, he's been a model husband and father and ultimately want to stay with him but how do I begin to process the fact this has hurt me in a way I just never thought myself vulnerable to by him? I'm struggling to keep up the pretence that all is fine to family, friends and colleagues and how to communicate with DH after this. I know it's a very unusual situation but any advice is welcome. Thank you for reading.

I know that I'll be accused of holding on to what I want to hear, but yes he says that it's not when they've been alone and he puts it across as a 'banter' type thing. As I said the friend has also done similar things to other males in the friendship group. I could deal with him being bi, he must be attracted to other women so being attracted to men wouldn't bother me as long as it wasn't acted on of course. My head is a mess to be honest as it's all so unexpected.

I think it is also worth considering why he has never mentioned this to you and what he thinks your reaction might have been.

Ugh, I don't know what I'd do OP. My mind would be reeling. I'd be thinking, "what else has he got up to when he's drunk?" because this is just the one you found out about (found out - he didn't confess. That would trouble me). It can't just be put down to the drink either, because this isn't something everyone does when they've had too much. I don't know any heterosexual men who would do this, and I should perhaps qualify this by saying that I'm a recovering alcoholic who used to surround myself with other alkies/massive drinkers - no one did this. I do think it brings his sexuality into question, especially if this is something he's initiated. It's just extremely odd, isn't it?

I don't doubt you that your marriage has be incredibly happy otherwise. I'm sorry not to be more helpful - my mind would be going crazy too. I'm someone who can't forget stuff either so this wouldn't go away for me as an issue.

The crowd he drinks with - that needs to stop now surely? 3 kids and he needs to drink like a 20 year old on Booze Britain. What's he saying now? What was he like when you confronted him about this?

I used to study with rugby types who thought it hilarious to grab each other’s genitals through the clothes as a greeting. I wouldn’t be impressed but also wouldn’t be too upset.

I would probably get clear the actual nature of the interaction. Friendly quick fondle of genitals as a running joke - annoyingly prurient but not the end of the world. Vs Any sexual undertone to the encounter - this I would take seriously enough to reconsider our relationship.

Sorry - cross posted with your update. But this wasn't something that was "done to him" by this other guy. He initiated it sometimes. It just doesn't sound right to me.

You must be devastated, does DH think he's in Brokeback Mountain, and if he only sees him occasionally then its not like cheating on you. You must do what you think best though.

@forgivenessisdivine that does niggle me. If it's what he said then I wish he'd just mentioned it. He said he didn't hold it back to be intentionally deceptive but didn't acknowledge it as a 'thing'. He understands my reaction though. He's sleeping in the spare room and I'm going to take the children to my mum's this weekend. Right when we'd planned to get our tree... It all feels alien.

I agree with someone up thread who asks if you're going to throw away 17 years of marriage for this? Marriage is a long game, humans do strange and stupid things (that they sometimes regret).

I disagree. He initiated it, at least twice.

So it’s been in amongst groups of people rather than them sneaking off for a fondle? If it is more of the rugby club stupidity behaviour, blokes thinking they are being hilarious while pissed, type of thing, I would be able to get past it.

Is it a case where the other chap started doing it while pissed, sussing out whether your DH might be interested (given that you say he gropes lots of men and women 🤢), and somehow your DH when pissed has decided it would be a great idea to do the same back on a couple of occasions?

Not trying to minimise, just to understand whether this is genuine intimacy (which sneaking off for a fondle would imply) or meaningless drunken stupidity l.

Hi Bubblefiz1,

Im on the fence on this because I feel like more information is required.

These drunken fondles, can you explain more, are they brief encounters that happen in say a bar for example, do they grab each others manly bits whilst walking past as a joke? Or is it in a more serious setting.. is it just the two of them? do they go somewhere private, is kissing involved?

If it is literally just a grab and manly shout out whilst walking past one another then I would class this as a joke also if he has kissed this bloke in front of other people, how disrespectful is that to you, surly he would have known it was going to get back to you. If it was whilst in a bar in front of a load of people making a joke then I can accept its a joke.. but if its anything more than likely to be cheating.

Hope your ok.

I think it was Marian Keyes who wrote 'he's not gay/bi, but he will help out if they are busy.'
How did you find out OP?

There's a huge difference between 'jokey' hugs/cuddles between friends, even friends playing 'grab ass' or giving a smacking exaggerated kiss. That's 'play' and I wouldn't have a problem. But a 'lingering fondle' of another person's genitals? That doesn't happen for no reason. I'd be on the train to Nope Town on that one.

There's a line and he's crossed it. It's cheating, plain and simple. The sex of the people doesn't matter, the relationship between the people doesn't matter, the imbibing of alcohol makes no difference. The promise is "Keep thee only unto her/him", not "except for a drunken fumble with a mate".

As far as what you do know, that's an individual decision. For me cheating is an absolute dealbreaker because I wouldn't stay with someone I couldn't trust. But if you do decide to try and work it out, counseling will be the only way. And he'll have to be prepared to be perfectly honest about everything, including his sexual desires.

I know people that do this sort of thing in a jokey kind of way, I really despise the term 'banter' as I think it's often terribly misused, but I suppose it's part of that. However surely you've been around when drunken sessions have taken place? It's gone on for ten years without you knowing about it and if it was just drunken mucking about surely you would have known about it before now...

If he got nothing out of it why did he instigate it in two occasions?

I think regardless if male or female it’s cheating. Would you be happy if he’d been fondling/fondled a female ex work colleague? Same thing in my book.

I work with blokes, and they can be crass and rude and down right gross, they can muck around and maybe ‘go’ to grab another mans genitalia, but it never EVER results in fondling. op, he’s either gay or bi and taking the first steps towards experimenting

It's not as straight forward as "yes it's cheating...imagine if he did that to a woman". I think a lot depends on whether it was a sexual thing or not. If it caused sexual feelings in him then yes of course it's cheating regardless of whether the recipient was male or female. If he felt nothing sexually and it was all part of some odd joke between them then I wouldn't class it as cheating. My ex boyf used to regularly grope his closest male friends (they often did it to each other) and it was just part of their friendship and long running jokes etc. I would sometimes see him doing it and it never even crossed my mind that it could be considered cheating as it was not a sexual thing at all for any of them. None of us spoke about it or paid any attention to it because it was just an accepted norm within the group.

So basically, what I'm saying is that yes, if he found it sexually arousing then yes it was cheating but if it was just based on jokes/banter then no it isn't cheating. However, your dh isn't going to confess that he was sexually aroused by it so you either need to end it with him, agree to move on, forgive and forget, or see how it goes whilst looking for other evidence to suggest he's lying to you. It's a horrible situation.

It doesn't really make any difference that it's a man. Touching somebody else in a sexual way is cheating. It's up to you what you choose to do about it I wonder if marriage counselling might help you both clarify how you feel about the situation going forward?

@ BubbleFizz1 Sorry you are having to deal with this, as someone who discovered her "perfect" partner was cheating after 16 years I get the confusion about who that person really is. It can be heartbreaking and head wrecking to try to fit together the person you thought you knew with the person who has crossed boundaries with another and lied.

My advice is take some time away from him to give yourself head space, going to your mum is a great idea, for now speak about this only to someone you can trust, I would recommend an impartial person, an experienced marriage counsellor would be a good start just to sound things out and help you make sense of what you now know about your relationship.

One last thing cheaters always minimise and will never tell the truth the first go around, you may get bits and pieces over a prolonged period of time and that can make everything more difficult as you never really know if this time is rock bottom. It can make healing tougher. Please be kind to yourself and take care.

If this has been happening over ten years, I wouldn't trust that it's just been an over the clothes fondle, he's lied about it for ten years, I doubt he's telling the truth now. He's more then likely minimising it.
Why is it only this man, or is it only that this man has revealed himself and there are other men.

If he's said he has initiated some of the encounters, it means he is getting pleasure from it, so at the very least he is bi and he's exploring that.

The question is is he gay and not accepting it, or bi and he's exploring that side of him.

What has he been doing with this man, who you said is a known cheat? Has there been full sex? You cannot know for sure, so you may want to get an STI/HIV test.

Nobody can say what you should do. It has to come from you, but you should maybe go to counselling together to get to the truth.

This reminds me of Grace and Frankie.

Clearly the friend is bi. Your oh sounds like a straight man who had a few inappropriate encounters. It's not that unusual. It's also irrelevant, he hasn't been carrying on a secret affair, or cottaging, unless there's more to tell. Get the whole story.
Whether it's cheating depends on whether you think a drunken grope at a party, whoever its with is a sacking offence. He deserves to be given a hard time, but I feel he can understand how you feel and it's a silly thing unlikely to be repeated then you may be able to get over it
Good luck.

I agree that I need to gain more clarification on what the interaction actually involved. There has been no kissing and he said it has been in a bar as a greeting or when leaving/after a match scenario.
I absolutely have always said I couldn't be with someone I couldn't trust, then when this happens to your life, your family, your marriage it's suddenly really hard to gather that adamance that was so confidently there before. He wants to do anything possible to regain my trust. I don't know if it's possible but I think I will be able to try, with counselling.

I really do appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond to this. I'm sat in tears at the relief that I'm able to discuss it. I'm sorry for the poster who experienced something similar with a seemingly perfect partner, it's shocking. Thank you all.

Bless you OP.
This is really tough.
Getting away for the weekend is a good idea.
Just a bit of headspace to think things through.
This is you, your family and your life.
Only you can decide what is best for you.
But counselling is also a very good idea.
On your own to start with then with him.

It doesn’t seems anything sexual. If it was then more would have happened. Sounds like the story is corroborated, and if no other cheating has gone on so I’d forgive and forget.

As a guy I can confirm that this kind of behaviour could well be nothing, they're weirdly handsy with each other in their choose group of mates. They're not wanking each other off secretly, right?
In fact the posts are quite vague.
It also sounds like he's reacting well to your concerns.
I would not be taking the family apart over just this, as described.