Really really sad

[namechangedagen]

Been together 12 years and have 2 very young DC. DH suffers from depression and will not get help. Sometimes he says he will to end an argument but he never actually goes through with it.

We’ve just gone through some big changes lately (big move, career changes etc) so it taken its toll on us and for the last year we’ve been arguing on and off - sometime petty things sometimes about him not getting help for his depression which affects our relationship greatly. The problem is he is prone to massive rages when we argue. He smashes things up - iPads, iPhones, kitchen stuff. Never in front of the kids but I find it intimidating (not to mention expensive to fix). When he’s in these rages he says awful horrible spiteful things to me which are personal - he always takes them back later but my self esteem has taken a bit of a battering. Also sometimes he does unpredictable things like a couple of months back we talked about his depression and he got up and just walked out with no shoes or shirt on and didn’t come back for hours. DM had to come watch the kids who were in bed while I drove around looking for him. I was so worried he was going to harm himself and I’d never see him again (he attempted suicide a very long time ago before I met him).

Anyway since that incident we had a make or break talk and decided we’d give it one last shot because we couldn’t go on. In that talk yet again he said he’d get help and has just been putting it off and blaming all the other stuff in our lives for not going. Yesterday was a rare child free day - we got back from a day out with friends and had a silly argument on the way back (the first since the last incident). He went mental and smashed up a guitar when we got home, even hurled a can which hit me although I’m still undecided if this was deliberate or not) and punched the wall repeatedly until his hand bled. I’m in the spare bed right now. I’m so heartbroken.

I feel like I’m not sure what to do anymore. I said last night I wanted him out first thing this morning. I can’t take it anymore. When we argue he’s quite terrifying - I barely even raise my voice as I don’t want to rock the boat but he screams at me and looks like he hates me. No one else knows this side to him. Problem is without me and and the kids he has nothing or no one. I’m so scared about what will happen to him if I go through with this today. I don’t know where he’ll go or what he’ll do. He’s really not all bad just very sick.

I don’t know why I’m posting really. I just don’t know what to do and I feel so on my own.

I’ve found this thread quite hard to read. But maybe I needed to read it. Particularly one person posted near the beginning that this has become my normality but it makes quite horrific reading. I don’t think I realised that until I read it and it made me cry.

I think I feel a lot of shame that I’m in this situation and also feel worried that I’m wrong. Like what if it’s my fault he acts like this and the reason he’s not like this with anyone else is because I’m just that awful to live with...I know that can’t be true really but my self esteem has taken such a battering. I’m just so worried I’ve caused this somehow I keep going over and over it in my head. He’s said some truly terrible things to me which he now says he didn’t mean and he was just lashing out. I just feel done today.

I don’t have any concerns for myself because I will get through life fine and I know I will. Me and the kids have loads of people in our lives. But I do wonder what this will mean for him and his life because I genuinely don’t know where he’ll go from here.

I really wish things were different

I thought my abusive ex was ill too, I thought he needed help and psychiatric care. Even after he tried to kill me I still thought this and said so in a police interview, that he needed help not punishment. After the attempted murder he took himself to a psyche hospital, this is where it became clearer.
The penny dropped when the hospital psychiatrist, police psychiatrist and doctor came back and said there's nothing wrong with him and he rightly went to prison instead of a mental health unit. It was all manipulation.
Don't let it go as far as I did. Years later I'm still processing what he did. I was minimising his behaviour because I truly believed, and allowed him to make me believe, he was poorly.
Illness doesn't excuse abuse, nor does it cause it.
I can guarantee he will use the suicide card if you try to leave, they're all the same but it's not your responsibility. Chances are it won't happen anyway. But if it did then it's not your fault and you should not feel responsible.
This is abuse, domestic violence not depression. You need to leave because you or your children could end up dead.

OP, I can empathise with a lot of what you have said. I have been there too.

Trust me when I say this: THE KNIFE WAS LEFT THERE FOR YOU TO SEE.

He was manipulating you. Either to think he would harm himself, or an implied warning that it could be turned on you. However much you think that's not true, it very well is. He knew exactly what he was doing by leaving the knife for you to find, and his reaction when you raised it was very telling.

If he turns the knife on himself, it isn't your fault. But he won't ever do that to cause serious injury to himself, because that won't meet his objective which is to control you and put you in your place. He may superficially cause damage just to have an impact on your feelings.

Statistically he is more likely to turn it on you if you don't heed the warning and keep speaking 'out of turn' to him.

You aren't safe. Your DC aren't safe. Get his parents to come and pick him up. Do it today.

There is no shame in this for you. He needs to be outed for your protection, and possibly his recovery, if indeed he is ill, which I don't believe.

He has never been officially diagnosed with anything, he says he tried to kill himself but that was before you knew him. I would say you cannot trust anything your husband says.

He can switch his moods to suit himself and the situation. The extreme behaviour and then an apology it’s to keep you in your place and dangling it’s a known technique used by abusers. He sounds extremely manipulative and downright dangerous.

He wants to hide all this hence why he won’t let anyone else know. I would keep who your discussing this with to yourself.

I really do believe he is depressed - I am not saying it excuses the behaviour. His family have openly spoken to me about when he tried to kill himself, how long he was in holspital etc and it all adds up. Depression is very prominent in his family - his mum has it his dad has had it and his sister too. He also had an aunt with it who unfortunately took her own life when he was a child and his uncle has it to the extent I’ve only met him once. He is very reclusive.

For most of our relationship there has been no sign of the depression although he did tell me he suffered from it very early on. It’s only since we had our dc that it’s shown up. We were in a loving stable place when we agreed to have them which is why I think having them has triggered it. I’m so sure that if he went to the dr which I am going to tell him to do (again) they would diagnose him with depression although once again I recognise this does not excuse his poor behaviour.

I still stand by the fact that he is not all bad and I want him to get help and to get better. But I know I need to step away now and I will do this with the support of my family and hopefully his for him.

Hiya.

I was a DV advisor for years. Depression itself is not the sole reason for his behaviour, but it may well be a factor.

For me, that factor translates simply into a risk. He poses a risk to you and the children.

One of the risks with throwing things is that they bounce and miss Fire, which they did this weekend. He may not mean to hit you with things he throws, but he may accidentally do so.

See? Risk. Whether he means it or not, whether he is at fault or not.

It Is not about you. Other people manage to relate to you and not do this. It is him, not you.

And he has affected you emotionally, which is another risk.

And the children are at risk.

The knife poses a risk. What did it mean? Why was it there, for you or him? What if a child had found it. It's a risk.

My advice to you my love would be, don't talk to your sister alone. She doesn't know how's to diagnose a medical problem and she will be equally unable to correctly diagnose this. It's a case for the professionals.

There is the national helpline number 0808 2000 247 but also google your local DV services provider, a team of women down the road from you. They can do an immediate risk assessment and safety plan.

It's not big deal. You can blame everything on the worker, well they said you have to go, just for now, just to get the help you need, just to keep the kids safe you know, after the knife etc.

I promise you, you will feel a massive weight off for sharing this load. Xxxxx the cards we used to receive from women xxx you will be so much better off for a hand to hold xxx

Where did this theory that having children triggered his depression come from? Was that from him? How does it connect? Or did you want children more than him and feel guilty somehow? It is well documented that abusive men ramp up the abuse and control at specific milestones such as marriage, pregnancy and childbirth. Maybe you didn’t notice it before?

It's OK to not know where he will go from here. You don't have to have his route to good mental health mapped out for him. He has to work that out for himself.

Just because you can't predict the path he will or should follow next doesn't mean there isn't a good path and doesn't mean he won't find it.

It is a very codependent trait to think everyone else will fall apart if you don't tell them how to solve their problems. Codependent types usually feel frustrated and angry that the person they have decided to save won't do as they are told. Often with a good dose of After everything I've done for them Recognising this tendency in yourself can help you to fight it. Help you to let others get on with solving their own problems in their own way and lead to you having a much happier life.

I very much hope you and the dc are not alone in the house when you tell him you're leaving.

I don't think he will go and certainly not quietly. Have you asked the advice of women's aid? I also think you should report him to the police.

He controls his temper and waits til evening til losing it and has a knife hidden. Have you parents you can go to? I don't think you should tell him tbh, I think you need to go with the dc or perhaps get the police round when you tell him to leave. They can section him and get him the help he needs if he starts screaming and shouting. I wonder if he would or try and say you need help instead.

It's not your fault and you have kids so you can't put him first. The bit about him hiding a knife - he doesn't mean it for himself. Did he want you to find it and be scared enough to stay? What if the kids found it? You can't risk them finding him covered in blood, or you for that matter.

You keep trying to talk things through with him but it's past that. I'm so glad you have your sister. I hope she puts you and the dc all in a car and drives you all away to safety.

It doesn't matter if he's depressed ,it doesn't matter if he ends up eating of dustbins ,he's dangerous-get out

I find it hard to understand how everything was great, with no signs at all that there were any incidents/issues with depression / anger / control in the decade of the relationship before you had children - so that he went from 0 - 60, so to speak, in a short space of time. Was there really nothing there? And how challenging really is it changing careers, having children etc - stressful yes - but its what everyone muddles through.

I didn’t notice any issues before this. The only time I saw any aggression from him was years ago we went out one night with his mates and a random guy came on to me very deliberately in front of him (think he was up for fighting DH). I dragged him out of the pub as I was worried he might hit the guy as he used to get into fights as a teenager. When we got outside he punched a wall so hard that he broke his hand. That was literally it - no smashing objects up, no suicidal threats, no knives in bathrooms. So understandably I find it hard to understand how we are here now too.

I don’t want to go into too much detail on here so I will just say he really is under a significant amount of stress at the moment (more than kids, work and the move). However, I do aknowledge that a different person would cope with the stress better/differently. I think it’s fair to say we all have different thresholds for stress.

CottonTailedRabbit - the comment you made about co dependent types are frustrated when people do not do what they’re told....if you mean because I want him to get help and he won’t, well yes that does frustrate me. But I’d probably say this would be frustrating for someone who is co dependent and also for someone who wasn’t co dependent as he says he is ill but will not get help. Not sure I got the point of that post but hopefully it was well meaning.

Is there a connection between his extreme rages and alcohol?
This might seem cold but if he kills himself it will not be your fault or your responsibility. Cold fact. You need to face this or you will be eternally in his grip.
This is like living with an alcoholic. Its up to him to seek help. Its up to you to protect yourself and your children.
He knows the threat of suicide makes you fall into line. I talked to a woman at a support group who learnt to say to her exh who did this.." just make sure the dc don't find you" . That stopped him in his tracks as the power was gone out of his threats.
My dh has bipolar so l am very familiar with mental health. And it took me years to get support for myself. I fought against it as l felt l didn't have the issues. But it was the best move l ever made getting counselling for myself and joining a support group.

The alcoholic analogy is a good one. You and your DH is a dysfunctional dynamic - where you are in fact an unwitting enabler. Its a game - so you need to drop the rope. Get support for you to do this. This will make him face his rock bottom sooner.

Op, you can't sacrifice your life being responsible for him and you can't sacrifice your kids life being responsible for him, and they will be of an age shortly where they know.

The bottom line is he is able to control this. He only does it in front of you and to you. That speaks volumes and tells you all you need to know.

He's keeping you there by makin you think it's your fault, that he might harm himself. He's abusive and controlling. It's not depression. Because he can control it when he chooses to.

Leave him or get him out. For everyone's sakes. Remember when he does it he is choosing to do it. It's a choice. By pretending it's illness you are absolving him of personal responsibility for his actions.and he knows this.

That's why he doesn't want to get help. He knows he can control it. He's shown you he can control it.

You need to leave this man. You cannot keep him alive if he wants to die. You cannot keep living with his abuse either.

we all have different thresholds for stress.

Well yes. But what he's doing is illegal, it's against the law. It isn't the automatic response to stress. In fact it's very little to do with stress.

He is an abuser. he gets a lot out of it or he wouldn't do it. Quit with the 'he's hurting and can't help himself'. He so can help himself. He chooses to do this to you and your children.

Regardless of that you MUST report him to the authorities after the knife incident. This is dangerous territory now and I'm very concerned for your safety.

His behaviour from early on suggests he has anger issues. In his relationship with you he is violent. He does not care how that impacts you. He has control over his reactions as he behaves differently with others. He may be depressed too.

It sounds as if you have realised you cannot help him, as hard as you have tried you keep going round in circles. You have tried hard enough. You have not failed. If he doesn’t want to change he won’t.

You still love him. You still would like to help him. Those feelings are normal. I understand the worry you have he may hurt himself if you left him. I think it is more likely he will have to find new ways of behaving and that is a good thing but if you are worried you may talk to his GP, explain the erratic and violent behaviour, your need to have distance and your worry for him. They will offer him an appointment to chat about his mental health needs and this may be a reassurance for you he has some support?

No connection with alcohol. Although he was drunk on the weekend he’s usually sober when it happens.

I asked him about the knife again last night. He said he doesn’t want to talk about it. I pushed him and he said he’s not ready to talk about it with me yet. I’m pretty angry about that actually I think I’m owed an explanation. Actually every time I want to speak to him on my terms he shuts down. I shudder to think what would have happened if one of the kids had got hold of it first.

Did not get to speak to my sister yesterday as she was ill and I didn’t want to dump it on her. Spoke to her this morning though I’m going over with the kids after she’s been to work and told her I need to speak to her about something very serious (so I can’t back out).

One thing though. A lot of people have said on this thread about what’s happening being abusive. I haven’t addressed it yet but I don’t get how it’s abusive behaviour? It’s definitely bad behaviour yes - but he has never actually physically harmed me. He’s said some vile stuff but doesn’t everyone when they’re angry? What separates abusive from just having an argument and saying something cruel? Which I’m sure most couples do? Not that I’m excusing him saying these things.

I don't think anyone was suggesting it is alcohol-induced. A pp made the observation that it's like an alcoholic ie he has a problem he refuses to face; you think you can 'help' him.

Your response, above, seems to entirely ignore the very real concern posters have about your safety. Why is that? Do you think your situation is different and he's 'not like that'? As I said upthread, almost all victims thought that.

Yes this is abuse. It doesn't have to be physical to be abuse. He is terrorising you and terrifying you - that is abuse because he can control it in every other situation except at home with you. That is abuse.

But it definitely could become physical, as posters are warning. The signs are all there

i wouldnt keep my dc in the same home with a man like this, i think they are in risk.
and you have to have boundries while arguing, what is acceptable what is not.

Smashing property up is abusive OP

I do so hope someone hears it and reports you so the police get him out of your home.

If social services knew this was happening they'd have those kids out of there in a flash.

They'd give you the choice: him or the kids. They'd make it clear you can't have both.