did your marriage begin life as an affair?

[thinkingandsad]

Yes of course I have changed my name for this.

That's it really. Were you married to someone else when you met your current partner and were they married too?

Has it worked out and would you do it again?

How did you go through the process of getting together and breaking up your families?

Hurtwife - I realize I have not answered your question as to why we are still living with partners, but it is entirely for practical reasons. Can't really say an awful lot more than that on here, as going into details would make me a bit too easy to identify... and that's a complication I can do without....

So how about answering the question as to whether or not your partners know what is going on? Surely it is only 'fair' to them that they should have the choice. Unless of course you are carrying on a 'secret affair'

I really do not have a problem with relationships breaking down and really cannot believe that the complications can be that huge anyway. But i still have trouble with the fact that anyone should dilibrately continue along a path that they know would cause such destruction, to anyone.

Maybe i am niave and quite possibly a complete fool but i dont think i could sink so low as to do this to anyone else.

I have got to know myself so much more now - and know what is really important, which of course is my happiness but not at the expense of my true morals.

But if this is the course you wish to take then good luck to you and i really do hope it works out for you.

Yes, he was married with children and i was single (and much younger). With hindsight i wish that he had been divorced (less scarlet woman comments), BUT they were living as two separate people in one house sharing the childcare, ie. when he got in from work she would go out.

We were and are still very happy. Situations still arise but we deal with them when they occur and together.

My dh and i knew from the outset that we would try to minimize the fallout, especially for the children. It was not an ideal solution, but neither is staying put if you are unhappy - you only get one life.

Wishing you all the best whatever you decide.

Of all experiences, I think these situations are ones where you really have to be in the other persons shoes as it is never as simple on the outside as it looks on the inside.

I have twice been in the situation where I found out I was the other woman.Once,having firmly stated my position I would not conduct any relationship until the one he said was ending actually had, I stupidly believed what he said. His relationship did end, but messily because there was an overlap - I ended it as soon as I realised he had lied.

The second time I deeply regret, not because of my actions other than my outright stupidity and naivety but because children were involved and his wife was actually pregnant at the time. I regret being so stupid to have anything to do with such a devious liar - this is a man I later found out removed wedding ring, childseat from car and photos from wallet when convenient. Fortunately, not realising there was anything to be secret about, I mentioned seeing X to a mutual colleague whoe explained the situation and that I was the latest in a long line. Boy, did I feel stupid. And I despite the fact I could have smashed his head in (I ended it immediately), I did keep quiet and left the job but I was so angry the harm he inflicted on his family was because of me. Still, a few months later he had a replacement for me who, lets say was more in the Katie Hopkins mould.

My point is I (would like to think) I would never carry on a relationhsip begun as a long term affair because you will have seen the other person at their most devious and secretive. I don't believe I could ever trust in that situation. It is a bit glib, but that saying by Sir James Goldsmith kind of rings true - when a man marries his mistress it creates a vacancy.

I am not saying relationships created during affairs don't last. What I am saying in my experience the process of having an affair and the necessary secrecy can create a situation where you can't build trust with your partner and you despise yourself.

Easy to say, but if you are unhappy in one relationship, I would say you have to sort that one out by whatever means before you complicate it with another. But difficult whatever, only you know your situation.

Neither of our partners know we have had an affair for 1.5 years, but as we both will soon be moving in with each other, we will have to come clean about a 'new relationship' ... you may think I have sunk to the bottom of the ocean in terms of moral standards based on this, but I think 'honesty' is a bit dubious in this. I see a lot of people having a fling, or an affair, who then rush into being 'honest' just to offload their guilt, leaving their partners totally devastated and their lives in a real state of crisis. This is something I have wanted to avoid, mainly for the sake of the kids, as I know when affairs get found out, or when people decide to fess up, things, at least for a while, get pretty ugly If you think your marriage is salvagable, then perhaps coming clean is the right thing to do, but if you think it is not, what is the point? I think being 'honest' just for the sake of being 'honest' is seriously overrated. All it does is give you a false sense of 'relief', a bit of a clearer conscious and it shifts the worry and stress onto the other person.

I have talked to my husband at the end of last year about splitting up and getting divorced and we both agreed this would be the best way. I did not tell him I am having an affair, as I know it would hurt him and I think there is no point in him knowing it, as the marriage is where it is irrespective of the affair, and all that would happen is that he would focus on the affair as the reason for the marriage ending, and on 'the other bloke'...

I can see you think I only have my own happiness at heart, and yes, I do want to be happy, but not at the detriment of others. I am trying to get the situation resolved as fast as possible without causing huge upheaval to the kids, without blazing rows every night etc, and I am trying to do the right thing for my husband as far as I can do this in the circumstances, which is basically trying to allow him to move on as soon as possible without me, and not keeping him trapped in a relationship when I have already 'moved on' ...

I have had 1.5 years of being the 'bad'wife and (perhaps even worse) the 'other' woman and it has made me feel incredibily guilty, but it's also made me see that things often really aren't as black and white as they seem.... what may seem to you as 'low moral standards', huge amounts of deceit and lies, complete selfishness on my part is really me trying to sort things out as best as I can with the least amount of hurt for the kids and my husband...

Yes me and dh got together, I was engaged to someone else at the time, dh was single. We had an affair for about 3 months then I left my fiance and moved in with dh and my dd.

It was the best thing Ive ever done and Ive never regretted my decision

'the children can be happier afterwards... often their lives become more interesting and their parents more involved with them after divorce.'

While not wanting to judge anyone this does sound like a typical self-justification for someone trying to avoid the facts.

People whose parents separated are more likely to separate themselves etc, possibly because they have never seen long relationships lasting for many decades, only adults who jump ship when they were unhappy. What child would be happier in that situation if given a genuine choice?

Just a comment on the 'kids from separated parents are more likely to separate themselves'... There are loads of other stats there like 'second marriages fail at a rate of 85% compared to 'only' 50% of first marriages'...

All very interesting but all these stats do is terrorize people who are splitting up who have kids, make them feel like complete failures and give them the idea that they will never be happy again and that every other relationship they will have is doomed to fail.

It's all very easy to sit on a moral high horse, and perhaps 5 years ago I would have been too, happily married, deliriously happy with baby number 1 on the way, no intention of ever stooping so low as to cheat on my husband, or to have an affair with a married man... But relationships develop, people change, and 'shit' happens...

I know everybody rallies around the women and men who get cheated on, give them lots of advice not to put up with the bloody w@*ker/ the bitch etc and typically the 'Other Woman' gets a good bashing too.... and perhaps rightly so... however it seems to me that nobody ends a relationship lightly, certainly not when there are kids, and nobody who is involved in an affair does not feel extremely guilty about it.

Well thanks for posting again - I in no way want to judge you it is just that i know what i could and would not do.

Of course nothing is black and white, and until it actually happens we cannot say hand on heart what we would do in any situation.

I really hope you do sort it out soon and find happiness and that your husband does too. The longer it goes on the more chance there is of someone finding out anyway so if you think you are doing the kindest thing then i hope it is soon.

Sorry to disagree but i think honesty is the best policy. There have been 'secrets' in my H family (past suggestions of affairs ect) and it still causes problems even now - his parents split and although it is not official we all think it was because of an affair.

No problems Hurtwife, it's good to have a frank discussion on this but it is really hard to give advice as everybody's situation is so different...

Sorry for hogging this tread but am one of those people who've been on Mumsnet for years, always passively, and now I've started posting, I can't stop!

Will try to contain myself a bit.

'shit' happens - sorry but we dont have to be the ones throwing it.

Relationships 'change and develop' - so do children but you dont 'trade them in' becasue they are not turning out the way you want them to.

I think that what i am many others are saying is that 'work on one relationship at a time' If your marriage has come to a natural end then of course seek happiness somewhere else. If this new relationship is 'the one' then it will easily wait the few months it will take to get a divorce started and move on.

whoops looks like i am not containing myself now. sorry

Wont be back for a while as have school run now.

Carry on without me though!!

I too have been watching MN for a while but only really started posting when my world fell apart and have found it very addictive since!!

Agree I would not just 'trade in' my kids when they 'change and develop' but do you have to stay in a relationship just because of some sense of loyalty, or because it's the 'right' thing to do if both sides have changed in opposite directions and there is nothing left that connects you... And then what, get to 60 or 70 and feel like the last 30 years you've been unhappy, unfulfilled and you've given your kids the 'good' example of 'sticking it out', giving up your hopes and dreams and basically your personal happiness and giving them the example of a disfunctional marriage? I don't think there are any prizes to be had for being a martyr...

Regarding 'putting another relationship on hold' while you sort out the marriage first... yes, sounds good in theory, and would have preferred this route too, and admit I have tried to do this, but I don't think you can just 'put a relationship on hold' emotionally... It just does not work. You either have to end it, or it goes on, and if it is good, you need the other person, the other person needs you, you want to be together and just putting it in 'in storage' till a later date feels completely impossible... But perhaps that's just me being 'weak' again.

We were both married, we've been together for over 10 years.

There is no "affair bad karma" that people warn about. Life isn't like that. We started off having an affair and spent a long time in couples therapy (together) throughout the early years of our relationship. Some relationships work out, and some don't. But there is no "rule" that any relationship won't.

Why do people have affairs instead of just leaving ?

overdraft - I suppose there are all sorts of reasons. Leaving is a HUGE step, and I imagine a lot of people view it with total horror, especially if you are in a comfort zone. Where would I live? how could I cope with less money? where would the kids go to school? And, inevitably, What Would People Think?

Some people just want a "bit on the side" and the idea of leaving "for" that other person - or just leaving per se - would fill them with horror.

I'm not condoning this - just saying that IS the way people's minds often work.

And I do mean "people" - not Men.

Sometimes you just fall in love/lust and you act without thinking through the consequences and you think that if you delay making a decision then maybe some amazing Third Way will come up which will involve not devastating lots of people's lives (it doesn't)

I find it easy to understand why people have affairs but not why they leave average to dull marriages. Of course there are marriages so dreadful that they are best ended. But the ones where people say they don't feel the way they used to and there's no spark there, I don't understand leaving those if there are children.

Also, I think often people don't intend to leave. But they get found out and their hand is forced.

HD is right leaving is a huge step and and I don't believe that people take it lightly and without a lot of anguish.

TrueBlue, I completely understand and agree with what you are saying. I did try for 15 years to make my marriage work (including Relate twice) but it was well and truly over. We had the "seperating" talk at my insistence many times over the years but xh was of the "I'm not leaving this house you will have to" mindset and with two young dcs and limited finance it didn't feel like an option.

I eventually reached a point where I just couldn't go on with him anymore. I rented a couple of rooms in a grotty flat. It wasn't great for the dcs but at least the atmosphere was better away from the arguments. Yes, I was seeing the om at this time but I left to be on my own (well with dcs) and not for him. He finished his own relationship some months later and we got together then.

Not all people who have affairs are horrible and without morals.

DH and I take time for each other and are both aware of the pitfalls in a long term relationship. So even without the greatest of starts, it can have a happy ending or even just a happy day to day existence. I can honestly say, I am happier now than at any time in my previous relationship.

I appreciate this is a sensitive thread and do not want to upset Hurtwife.

thinkingandsad, please post again if you feel you want to. I would be interested to see what your latest thoughts are.

My DH had an affair 2.5 years ago and only told me a couple of weeks ago. It didn't really hurt me as much as I thought it would and that is because, at some level, I knew. Certainly I knew something was wrong. A wall had grown between us. Our relationshsip had become rather remote and there were so many complicated knock on effects which rippled throughout the entire family.

Now I know, he feels better because it's no longer eating him up. I am starting to feel better because I can understand and make sense of the last couple of years in a way I couldn't before.

I'm cutting this short because my two and a half year old is demanding my attention but basically lying is never a good idea. It's hugely disrespectful to the person you're lying to and it doesn't work anyway. If you think you're fooling anyone, you're not. In some way, at some level, the damage is being done.

Dont any of you worry about me!!

Yes it is sensitive and i am finding it interesting that those of you who have made a go of it post affair are now more willing to accept that there are pitfalls in any relationship, so as if it is a more 'grown up' relationship.

I think that to some extent this is partly the problem in the first place. The original relationship is somehow less mature, certain topics have not been thought about enough. Affairs are such a taboo subject and yet satistics suggest it is likely to affect so many.

We are making a go of our marriage again now and it is now a more 'grown-up' one. I know lots of you will think that it is not possible to continue after an affair but it is possible to actually have a far better relationship with your original partner. I am as surprized as anyone as i thought it was just relate counsellers trying to get you to go to them.

However still think it is wrong for their to be a different set of rules for one partner - have an open relationship by all means if thats what satifies your needs.

I don't know how successful 'open' relationships can be - I always suspect that one partner will feel more 'open' than the other...

Hurtwife, I'm so glad you and your h are making a go of things - it must be very hard for you after what you've been through and I do wish you all the best.

I had an affair with an exboyfriend - and we are together now. Exh was a good father and kind man, but after dd was born we stopped being lovers, never addressed the reasons why and continued living like brother and sister for 10 years. The more time passed, the less I felt I could raise the subject and lived in what was an increasingly fake 'happy family' - so we never did, until the day he confronted me, having been aware I was getting emotionally involved elsewhere. I hadn't intended to end my marriage for dd's sake, but when h left, I suddenly felt like I could breathe again, and realised I hadn't really been myself for years. Things were very hard for dd and that's my main regret - she was very sad and angry with me and dp, so we made no move to live together for a couple of years whilst giving her the time, love and understanding to allow her to adjust. Not forcing the issue seems to have paid off. The three of us now live together and seem very happy - dp and I have promised each other to talk through any problems - it doesn't always happen (old habits die hard) - but we try .

I do regret hurting my exhusband, and depriving him of day to day contact with dd. Some people - chiefly my mother - felt I should have stuck it out of a sense of duty & for dd - but you only have one life, and I'm [hopefully) only half-way through mine.

Each marriage, and each affair, is different - ideally, we should end bad marriages before getting involved with others - but we sadly don't live in an ideal world. The fact is, some partnerships that sprang from affairs will last, and some won't - just as some marriage will last - and some won't. Oh, if only for a crystal ball!

Hurtwife - I think it is great that you and dh are trying to work things out despite what has happened. I really hope it works, and I don't believe that it's impossible after an affair to turn things around, and perhaps to even make it stronger and better than it was before, but everything depends on your own personal situation and how you experience your relationship. And I realise it must be really hard for you, and for him, and that it will take time and patience and a lot of hard work...

When you decided that despite the affair, you would make a go of it with him again, surely you must have looked at your relationship and decided that there was something there you could build on to turn things around, that despite all the 'bad stuff' that had happened there were still some good things that were worth rescuing...?

The thing is, nobody knows what your relationship is like 'from the inside' apart from you and your dh... sometimes people who seem like an odd match, or who seem not to get on all that well, survive, while other couples who seem great together 'from the outside' don't ...

A bit like Tanee in her last post, I also got lots of people not understanding it why I decided our marriage was over, and if I had asked people who knew us to vote on whether I should stay or go, the votes would have probably been on me staying... and it took me a while to realise that it really does not matter what everybody else think about your relationship... If it does not work for you, despite trying all sorts of things for years, then it is OK for you to go... But of course, that does not mean it is 'ok' to go and have an affair...

Well said Trueblue, no-one does know what the realationship is like apart from those in it. It would have been so easy to just walk away and no-one would have blamed me. But there was a lot of good times to outway the bad and i now believe he sees that too. It was a temporary blip of not knowing what he wanted - it is just such a shame that couples dont talk about this together but instead take their problems outside the marriage.

I am still dealing with the fact that i do worry what others think to some extent and i hate the fact that the ow probably thinks i am a soft touch and that i dont really know him like she does. However in the big scheme of things that doesn't matter I know.

But this does bring me back to the orginal fact is that you do not know what the relationship is bewteen the om and his partner. The other woman in my situation must have been told all sorts of lies about me and i still do find that hurtful as i am actually a very nice person!!