My DM is in favour of prostitution. I'm disgusted. What to say?

[Tinytoebeans]

This is a long standing opinion of hers, based on her idea that selling their body may be a last resort for some women and it's good that they should be able to make some money out of it rather than be helpless and starve. I think. Although I'm pretty sure this is a v naive view which doesn't take in the vast majority of situations. But if I'd point those out, she'd just say they were obviously not acceptable (coerced, for eg) but her main reasoning stands. And it prevents more rapes, apparently.

I hate prostitution with a passion. You enjoy sex, fine. Get on tinder. But even if you're one of the 'happy' prostitutes, you are still normalizing and enabling the practice of men thinking they can buy the use of a women's body to treat it (her) how they please. With all the disrespect for the gender which goes along with it. It also enables easy infidelity. (Yes, I have a partner in the forces, renowned for prostitute use, and its not a pleasant thought. ) Most things I have heard from men is that even if they wouldn't personally visit (really?) they don't see much wrong in anyone else using them.

As to preventing rapes? Well, I'm not sure the type of person to do that would get the same kind of thrill going to a prostitute, to put it bluntly.

Its not as if men are unable to keep it in their pants if horny. Why don't we expect similar behaviour from men and women? Ppl wouldn't generally expect a woman to go out to visit a prostitute if they were horny or not happy with/didn't have a partner around. The way this panders to men's base instincts and behaviour is pathetic.

I know I'm not the most eloquent of ppl and I don't want to have a big discussion with DM about it as I get soo angry with her view which ignores the vast majority of reality involved in the industry. Anyone have any good ideas as to what might educate her on the reality (I know she's on MN as well, hopefully she'll see this, if not I'll have some facts for next time) so she can see how her view isn't actually empowering for women, it's supporting part of a larger system of abuse. I despair that she seems to think it's 'cool' and empowering for women despite the larger issues she doesn't consider.

If prostitution didn’t exist, he’d just go cheat with his secretary or something (should we ban those promiscuous harlots too?) and the situation is no different. I provide a service, I’m not there to police who takes me up on it.
That's not the case, it takes time and effort to cheat with someone like that, which isn't the case with you. Again, I'm going on my knowledge of men working abroad/away from home.

Yes, I agree with op who said there's no discussion - the point which I have stated over and over again is that DM has categorically stated that prostitution empowers women. And not just in the happy hooker or starving children scenario. Noone on here (I think, I may be mistaken) has agreed with that, so why am I wrong to try and give DM information to show why it does more harm than good (proportionally, and taking other related issues, relationships and how young ppls ideas of normalized sexual relationships etc into account.) Yes, these men should have better morals, but loads of them don't because the opportunity is so easy.

It's clear that ppl are trying to make this an argument. I'm not telling ppl what to think or say, just reiterating that the issue I started the thread about was DM saying that prostitution empowers women, as a whole gender. And asking for advice on info which might show her all the related things which stem from sex work, but which definitely don't empower women. Ultimately, she may not change her mind, or she may refine her statement. Whatever. I don't get why ppl think I'm so bad for wanting to give her further info she might not have considered. I've never said she has to think the same as me, quite the opposite. I bet there is noone here who hasn't at one time replied with information to someone in conversation. That's how conversations go, how knowledge is disseminated, and how ppl come to an informed decision about things. But ppl are reading what they want to into my comments and making it into something completely different.

I can see there's no point me trying to get any further with this. And it's not because ppl aren't agreeing with me, which is no doubt what someone will accuse me of next. It's because the issue I'm asking about is only being considered by a very few, the rest just seem to comment on how I shouldn't try and change her opinion, prostitutes aren't responsible for bad behaviour etc, which is not what I said.

Thanks to those who actually read and commented on the point I was asking about, rather than taking the opportunity to have a go about something I hadn't said!

birdsdestiny, I responded to this thread because the OP was demonstrating the 1st rule of misogyny, Women Are To Blame For the Actions of Men. I do not for 1 minute believe that this thread came about as the result of a conversation with her mother. More likely it came about as a result with a conversation with her husband where the following came up It's irrelevant whether you think I'm worried about dh visiting one, I used the examples of his work/colleagues normalizing it because that's what I know about. This post this came shortly after her saying And it's not just a matter of saying the dp should have better morals. We apparently only have so much willpower...chances are you're going to be pretty interested and fail at some point.

It's sad that she has chosen to put this on to her mother and prostitutes, when it is clear that her problem is really with her husband and his friends and colleagues.

Subspace didn't see your post before I posted last, but that's exactly the point. It may be empowering for some, but not all women.

It's sad that she has chosen to put this on to her mother and prostitutes, when it is clear that her problem is really with her husband and his friends and colleagues

Agreed. DM make some probably ill thought through remarks and ends up in the middle of all this, when it’s OP’s DH and friends who are the ones to be worried about.

Jeez. Let me state this one last time dione as you appear to be hard of understanding. Women are not to blame for men's misogyny. Men are. But just as I wouldn't wave a chocolate cake in the face of my dieting friend if I wanted to help her stick to her diet, I don't see how prostitutes or brothels on plain view in public streets are helping to solve that problem.

DM make some probably ill thought through remarks and ends up in the middle of all this, when it’s OP’s DH and friends who are the ones to be worried about.

In the middle of what, exactly? I don't argue with her, I just want to provide information. She states her opinion (more than once, over a long period, so its not some ill considered snap comment), I state mine. That's it.
And it's not just dh and friends. My df has been approached on the street by prostitutes while working away. Not in a poor (or notorious) country either. It happens more places than you'd think, to ppl you'd never think it would. Thanks for again bringing up the fact you think I should be worried about dh cheating though. That's a low blow.

And for your information dione, so you can stop making incorrect assumptions, the conversation about prostitution re dh's colleagues came up years ago. The comment from DM was recent, due to a TV programme she'd seen. So you can stop with your ignorance and insistence I'm laying the blame on women. Which I've said numerous times, but you continue to ignore.

so why am I wrong to try and give DM information to show why it does more harm than good...

I'm just struggling to understand why you want to put so much effort into trying to persuade your mum?

Fidelity, loving your partner and respecting female humans is not going without/denying yourself OP. Unlike a diet, it is not a means to an end. It is what normal, decent human beings do without a thought.

Thanks for again bringing up the fact you think I should be worried about dh cheating though

Huh? How on earth would I know whether or not you should be worried about your DH cheating? I don’t know him.

In the “middle of it” meaning that you have had a very strong reaction to this. It is not normal to feel so strongly about educating your mother on your viewpoint.

Let me state this one last time dione as you appear to be hard of understanding. Women are not to blame for men's misogyny. Men are. But just as I wouldn't wave a chocolate cake in the face of my dieting friend if I wanted to help her stick to her diet, I don't see how prostitutes or brothels on plain view in public streets are helping to solve that problem.

I don't think that's a like for like comparison. What you're suggesting is banning chocolate from being sold because your friend and a large proportion of the country's population struggle to manage their weight.

I think marriage is quite often a form of prostitution if you stop and think about it?

That would depend on whether the sex is mutually pleasurable wouldnt it purple? Dont know about you but i thought that was normal.

Purpleisthenewblue1 Thu 20-Sep-18 22:34:05
I think marriage is quite often a form of prostitution if you stop and think about it?
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I can remember that being said, often, many many years ago. It stemmed from housewives whose husbands ruled the roost and from whom they had to ask for money.

Don't think that's the case for many of us now.
..............

OP I'd like to know which programme your mother watched which helped her form her opinion. I watched one, not that long ago, about a brothel somewhere quite bleak or looked bleak from the outside. It was run by a very ordinary, motherly type of woman and the 'working women' rented the facilities or paid a bit of commisson, not sure how it worked.
They were all quite jolly and of course it was safe. They advertised on the internet and men would just drop in, maybe ask for a particular girl and spend a half hour or an hour with them.

The other programme I watched was a few years ago with Billie Piper - Secret Diary of a Callgirl. That was interesting.

I do have issue with the fact that (AFAIK from reading previous comments), you do not see any difference in servicing a single guy or a married with kids guy cheating on his wife. Why would you enable/encourage ppl in this? I'm sure it's just business to you and it's up to the individual if they want to behave like a scumbag, of course, but the normalisation of prostitution is (in my opinion, based on what I have heard about colleagues/dh colleagues) leading many ppl (men) to normalize cheating because it's easily available and exciting. And surely that's not a good thing. I mention that because it's personally much closer to home....

And you said you weren't blaming anyone OP? Your opinion has changed over and over again since your first post and because you didn't get the encouraging support you where expecting. The view point you're giving now , you didn't mention it at all in your first post as you was busy blaming prostitutes.

I'm just struggling to understand why you want to put so much effort into trying to persuade your mum?
It's not that much effort. I just wanted some pertinent info. The comments on here have made it sound a much bigger thing than it actually is in reality.

How on earth would I know whether or not you should be worried about your DH cheating? I don’t know him.
Maybe because you said it’s OP’s DH and friends who are the ones to be worried about. And again, it's not as strong reaction as you imply. That has come about defending myself from ppl continuing to tell me I'm doing/thinking something I've categorically stated that I haven't.

I don't think that's a like for like comparison
No comparison is perfect, but I think it illustrates the idea of temptation and not deliberately offering up an easy way to fail, whether it be a diet or something else.

Whatever monday. My opinion hasn't changed at all. Independent prostitutes for medical reasons, unattached ppl, whatever. Coerced prostitution, no. Prostitutes servicing scumbag attached men who are cheating, yes, I have a problem with that. Just like selling medical drugs to ppl who need it is fine, ppl who sell those prescription drugs for random idiots to get high or whatever, I have a problem with that too. No change in my opinions. But yet again, that's not what I started the thread for, so I don't know why you're banging on about it.

Re. Charity workers using Prostitues - in the Haiti case as other pps have said there were a lot of factors that indicate it was a true abuse of power. If I found out an oxfam employee had bought sex from a prostitute in Amsterdam I’m not sure I would be particularly bothered, I don’t know if there would be a public outcry- they’re very different contexts. I don’t personally find it immoral to buy sex in principle but am aware that sex work can and often does capitalise on disempowered, vulnerable women so i find it hard to make up my mind about ‘the industry’. Why don’t you literally just google ‘is sex work good’ as I just did where a shed load of articles cane up.

I think your ‘prostitues tempt married men’ argument is rather Muddling your point. I’ve never seen that or the ‘rape reduction’ line come up in a conversation about sex work before. It’s really not up to a prostitute to vet the men they have sex with.

Agree Sans

Op why do you have a problem with men cheating with prostitutes? If men are going to cheat, they will find a woman. Prostitutes are women, did you know that?
Prostitutes are not different from all women-they are women. They are the same as married women, single women and attached women. They have sex with men just as wives have sex with men. The job is the same, exactly and biologically.
If men behave badly, it is because they have chosen to.
The way a woman provides sex to men should not be a value judgement.

I don't even know why I'm trying to answer now. I must have restated the original issue a number of times, yet am still getting lambasted about my personal opinion. If so many are going on about why I shouldn't interfere with dm's opinion, why is it OK to have a go and question me about things I've categorically stated I haven't said?!
The original issue was me wanting quick, effective information to give DM to illustrate why prostitution was not empowering to all women. Nothing else. Now I'm being called a troll or thick?

Tell her to Google sex trafficking? That’s pretty illustrative.

A brothel is not like a cake shop OP.
^There's a sentence I never thought I'd type^

Women are not cakes.