So fed up with DH's hoarding

[AwdBovril]

I'm absolutely fed up with DH's hoarding. DD is 6 & she's starting too... she will occasionally consent to get rid of a few things, usually after a tantrum, with some (quite a lot of) encouragement from me, but DH then seems to feel the need to "gatekeep" every item that is destined for the charity shop or bin. He often puts at least a quarter back.

DD has a double bedroom, lucky her. She's been asking me, for the last 3 years, for a sibling. I'd like another child, as would DH. However, we're a low income family & as things are, we have no room for another - DD's room is full, literally, of her stuff. An actual mountain of toys. PILs are unhelpful in that they regularly bring her more, I've asked them not to as we're struggling for space, trying to downsize, blah blah blah. It went in one ear & out the other. Every week, more toys arrive, & as usual Everything Must Be Kept. Their house is worse (more years to accumulate stuff, & no restraining influence).

I have explained to DD & DH very clearly that although I would love another child, it is not happening unless a) the house is kept tidier, b) they both significantly declutter, & c) that it has to happen in the next year. I'm late 30s & disabled. DH says I'm being unreasonable. I pointed out that he promised to stop hoarding before we got married, & again before we had a child; he hasn't. I feel like I was tricked into it, (although I didn't say this, as it would be unnecessary & cruel).

I wasn't brought up like this. I feel like the house is not only untidy but (in places) filthy. Some spots of certain rooms haven't been vacuumed for years because they're "his" & he has a great big pile of stuff that I'm not allowed to touch. I found a hand knitted woollen jumper of mine with 2 holes in it today because I can't clean properly & we have some kind of clothes beetle.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't married him. And just typing that makes me feel so sad. I don't know what to do. Except for the hoarding / untidiness, he's a good man, I think.

Please get him to see a therapist.
Hoarding can lead to all sorts of health issues too.

First of all, your DD.. She is 6, with the attention span of a gnat. You need to forcefully tell your ILs you can't accept new gifts and hand them back. The rest of the old stuff goes into plastic tubs under the bed that get "recycled" once she has forgotten about them.

But your DH is harder.. Is there small shed or room he could hoard in to his heart's content?

I sympathise with the op. My husband hoards. So do I. My son who lives in a very small house, also hoards but not as bad as his parents.

I long to have a big clear out, have longed for many years.

Possibly a fair point about DD. I'm just so fed up of it. She's picking up his /their bad habits & it's a slippery slope.

I do try to have a "no new items" policy, but unfortunately I'm often ill in bed when they call round (a lot, they're fairly local & have almost zero boundaries) & therefore am not available to redirect the gifts back to them. We don't have a car so it's a pain lugging things to the charity shop - DH is also mobility impaired.

No shed. Crappy tiny rental with zero usable storage space. Massive understairs cupboard (completely full), downstairs loo (unused, completely full). Loft is filthy, unboarded, damp & the hatch is about 30cm square.

I will talk to DH about therapy. He knows I'm pissed off. I know about the health issues - I'm a chronic asthmatic on the waiting list for secondary care (think that's the right term?) at the hospital because it's so poorly controlled.

OMG this surely must be affecting your asthma? At the very least it can't be helping.

I agree about the therapy. Without your DH understanding what the issues are in him, you are fighting a losing battle. Any space you clear it sounds as if he would fill at the moment.

Could you find pictures of empty, tidy rooms (not glamorous show rooms in adverts, normal rooms that aren't full of stuff) and talk to your dh and dd about them? Say how you feel about looking at rooms that would be easy to clean and that would mean you weren't at risk of an asthma attack because there is less dust, where you could open a cupboard and find anything you wanted because there is only one layer of stuff in it?

Just from googling, this website has some nice before and after pictures of that type. I haven't read all the lengthy spiel about her Marie Kondoing. I don't think you need that. You need to find out how they feel about the stuff, what they are scared of happening if they don't have the things any more.

Disclaimer: I am not a therapist or a psychologist, nor experienced in dealing with hoarding.

The acummulated dust must be aggravating your asthma, making his hoarding a danger to your health. It's time to get firm with your H but first you do need to decide if it's a deal breaker. He won't see it as the MH issue it is but you can't let his issues blight your life and health.

The onus is always on the person who doesn't want to maintain the status quo, to change it.

Thanks for the link, annandale. I've looked at KM before but came to the conclusion that DH & DD would indeed just fill up any space I "vacated"; they invariably do. DH briefly read the back of the KM book & announced he wasn't interested. No further discussion, he gets really grumpy if I try to push it, & just shuts any conversation down.

Yes, I do believe it does aggravate my asthma. e.g. we have an artificial Christmas tree, which is stored in the understairs cupboard. We have to arrange for me to take DD out for a few hours when he gets it out, along with the box of decorations - due to the dust. Can't get a real tree, much as we'd love to, we're both allergic.

Hoarding is a very difficult disorder to treat and I'm going to be very blunt :

You husband is highly unlikely to change. So what you have to decide is:

Can I tolerate this for the rest of my life, knowing it will not significantly improve and will probably get worse?

Do I want my child to also develop these behaviours?

I honestly thing it is time for an ultimatum. He finds specialist help or you move out with your daughter. Mean it.

And to anyone else who finds a hoard the first time they go back to their new boyfriend / girlfriend 's house - strongly consider ending the relationship right then.

I know I sound harsh, but hoarding is complex and shamefilled and highly resistant to change. It is also (as I'm sure you're discovering) hereditary. You can't save your husband but you can save your daughter.

I didn't want it to come to this but but you're probably right. I don't know how long to give him though, as an ultimatum/ deadline? Therapy isn't instantly available, nor does it work instantly. Our house is far, far worse than any of the pictures on that link - I don't like people coming round, it's shameful. Would a year be reasonable, to completely sort it? Bearing in mind mobility issues, no car, volume of stuff to sort through, on top of dealing with the emotional /MH side. I want to be realistic, PILs have not always been very nice to DH, & I accept that hoarding is hard to overcome. But I'm fed up & feel like I'm at the end of the line.

I still don't know how to deal with PILs though, in the meantime. At least, on that point, I've managed to talk DH round. A lot of the stuff they buy for DD is so ill-judged that neither of us want to keep it anyway. So we came a compromise that anything DD wants to keep, is to go back to their house. Their main form of recreational activity seems to be shopping for bargains.

Inherited hoarding again. The PILs have found a whole new space to fill in your house.

To me a year sounds quite fast for a lifelong disorder A week to make a gp appointment maybe?

Ok so maybe I shouldn't look longterm - just look at each individual milestone? I don't want to make him feel like it's "my way or the highway". It is, a bit, in as far as I'm just about ready to give up as I'm so utterly fed up - I have slightly reduced vision in one eye & keep tripping on their crap - but I'm not a heartless bitch & I'm willing to negotiate & I want to help him.

It is actively a hazard to your health - both in terms of your asthma and impared vision. I actually don't think a year is unreasonable.

Could you start sorting DD's room while she's at school?

I’m not sure re your dh sorry but I have read brilliant advice on here about hoarders from people who have a better understanding than me.

As for your daughter, there is no way a six year old is able to part with their stuff. My dc is 11 and I can’t sort or tidy in her room when she is around as she wants to cling on to everything. I think that’s normal. When she was away for two days recently I gutted her room ie put everything in boxes and bags on the landing, cleaned the room, organised the stuff on to shelves or smaller storage boxes and managed to chuck away four black bags of broken things/things she had grown out of. Now I do a quick tidy every day and it is so much easier. She hasn’t asked for anything.

If you don’t have a block of time like that, just do bit by bit each day when she is at school but do not involve her.

You cannot help him but you can help your DD here by she not growing up with this within her parents house and this becoming her normal (like your H has learnt).

You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped AwdBovril and hoarding is indeed a very complex issue. Many hoarders are reluctant to seek help because of their shame, humiliation and guilt regarding this problem. I would seek help for your own self instead and you can only change how you react to him. You may well want to negotiate and help him but I think by doing that you will be fighting a losing battle ultimately.

Reading these links on hoarding may help you more understand what is going on here:-

www.helpforhoarders.co.uk/ and particularly their Family and friends section.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/hoarding-disorder/. It sounds like his own parents hoard and are now using your house to further continue hoarding; there is family history here.

Hoarding has literally just be named a specific MH syndrome and recognised as a MH issue in it's own right.

Hoarders don't generally seek help because they know that help involves getting rid of stuff and that is what they fear most. Everything is as precious as everything else: wedding photos are no more precious as old newspapers etc.

I would assume that the Mind charity would be up to speed with new diagnoses rather than a gp. Perhaps they can suggest ways you can encourage your dh to seek help. Print out info from asthma charities about how clutter makes you condition worse and ask dh to read or get him to go to the doctor with you (for your condition rather than his) and get doctor to discuss with you. Man, generally, react better when a professional tells them directly rather than when it's passed on by a partner.

When I was young my mother would store (hide! Lol) items for 3 months. If I hadn't searched for them in that time, she'd bin it. But it gave me a chance to get something I actually used back and even at a young age I realised that 3 months meant I didn't really like the item. This could work for dc, but not dh as he is in the grip of an illogical compulsion

Some charities collect if you have enough to make it worthwhile. Have a ring round about toys.

Does he acknowledge that the hoard is a problem? Does he express a wish to change?

Unfortunately, you can't make him sort this out - he has to want to change. It's tempting to think "we just need to get rid of all the clutter, then it will be easy to keep clean" but unless your husband faces the underlying issues, the hoard will creep up again. You've seen how powerful the compulsion is for his parents to fill their house AND yours with hoard.

I am not totally without compassion - I have been with my boyfriend for nearly a year and I was shocked when I first saw his house. His whole family are hoarders and there are rooms you can't go in. He wants us to live together but I have said very clearly "I need to see you living by yourself for at least six months so I can see how you keep the place. I'm never picking up after a boy again and thats that." in his case I'm cutting a bit of slack because he's suffered a really traumatic bereavement but if it doesn't improve I'll never consider moving in with him.

My DH hoards things and had the unlimited presents. We compromised that he takes his junk back to his parents house and got some people to give cash. When we got new presents old went to charity shop when kids not there. Also had presents that stayed at ILs.

For you DD, you need to do toy rotation. Box up the toys and put one box worth 'out' at a time. The rest remain 'in storage'. Then rotate. There is joy in 'rediscovering' the old toys.

She will forget what is in them which gives you the chance to charity shop anything that is duplicate, 'too young', etc. Broken stuff can be recycled or sent to landfill.

Some rules. Max number of soft toys, etc. Then one in, one out.

Your DH needs professional support. Start with the GP.

I couldn't live like this OP and think giving him a year to change is too long, unless you focus on clearing one room a quarter or something but even then the longer he has to delay the worse it will be.

Could he put his stuff in storage for a while and when he sees how much that costs he might realize that he's not that attached to some items.

With DD, I just gather up the tat and give it away. It's for her own good in the long run.

My ex is like this. We have a double garage and a big conservatory and his office crammed with crap. The rest of the house I continually cleared. All young kids are hoarders and never want to throw anything away but all of mine reached the age at around 8 when they wanted rid of stuff they no longer used. Before that used declutter their rooms when they were at school or not at home. They didn't have a clue as they also had a lot of crap given them by MIL.

We had a bit of an argument about it this morning, I told him I want him to speak to the doctor this week & request a referral for counselling about it. He still denied he has a problem, at which point I replied that in that case we have a problem & I am willing to leave him over this if he doesn't deal with it. He did back down a little bit then, & say he will go, but only if I'll go about my depression. I probably am depressed, but think that's reasonable in the circumstances.

Before DH (then DP) & I moved in together, I had told him that I wasn't ready to live together. My hand was forced when they kicked him out when he had a nervous breakdown following the death of a friend. We'd only been together a few months, & he had lost his job due to the breakdown - which was part of the reason why they kicked him out (I believe they were financially abusive). Like I said, they haven't always been very nice to him.

Unfortunately if we box up most of DD's toys, there is nowhere to store the rest of them, only a built-in wardrobe that is riddled with damp & mildew, which wouldn't be fair. I've laid it on the line with DD that if she wants a baby brother or sister she will need to share her bedroom, which means she will only be able to use half the space as the baby will need half. I literally spelled it out, & said she will need to get rid of about 75% of her stuff. She picked out a dozen small things... we've been discussing this all summer. DH then put some of them back. Argh. She has enough books to make a stack about 7-8ft high (Some from DH's childhood). Well in excess of 100 DVDs.

I've suggested storage. Same response - no. Not willing to discuss it, it's ridiculous to pay for it, he wants all his stuff here in the house, it's his stuff & I'm trying to manipulate him, blah blah blah. Him getting angry, & me getting more & more frustrated & sad because I wish I wasn't here, & I don't want to feel like this.

TBH, I suspect that unless & until he sorts his MH issues out, if he put his stuff in storage, he'd just accumulate more stuff to fill the newly voided areas. He does have depression & takes medication for it already.

I'm sorry you're having to live like this. It's there anyone you can rope in to help with dds room? Send anything salvageable to a charity shop and try and get dd on board with the idea explaining what a charity shop does. Anything not suitable/broken/mouldy can go to the tip. If you were my friend I'd find a few hours to help you. There's not much you can do about dh but you can help your dd see the benefit of a clean and tidy room. Is it hereditary or is it all she knows and therefore she feels safer with all this stuff around?

Is the house safe for you to live in? Stuff everywhere, damp, mould, mildew have all been mentioned.

Is it rented?

I think your responsibility to your child here overrides your DH here. He is a hoarder who is not ready to clean and perhaps never will be. This is too deeply ingrained within him and he is also very much a product of his own upbringing. Using your depression as leverage for him to then go to the doctors himself is not great behaviour from him either.

You have a choice re him, your DD does not. What are you getting out of this relationship now?.