So fed up with DH's hoarding

[AwdBovril]

I'm absolutely fed up with DH's hoarding. DD is 6 & she's starting too... she will occasionally consent to get rid of a few things, usually after a tantrum, with some (quite a lot of) encouragement from me, but DH then seems to feel the need to "gatekeep" every item that is destined for the charity shop or bin. He often puts at least a quarter back.

DD has a double bedroom, lucky her. She's been asking me, for the last 3 years, for a sibling. I'd like another child, as would DH. However, we're a low income family & as things are, we have no room for another - DD's room is full, literally, of her stuff. An actual mountain of toys. PILs are unhelpful in that they regularly bring her more, I've asked them not to as we're struggling for space, trying to downsize, blah blah blah. It went in one ear & out the other. Every week, more toys arrive, & as usual Everything Must Be Kept. Their house is worse (more years to accumulate stuff, & no restraining influence).

I have explained to DD & DH very clearly that although I would love another child, it is not happening unless a) the house is kept tidier, b) they both significantly declutter, & c) that it has to happen in the next year. I'm late 30s & disabled. DH says I'm being unreasonable. I pointed out that he promised to stop hoarding before we got married, & again before we had a child; he hasn't. I feel like I was tricked into it, (although I didn't say this, as it would be unnecessary & cruel).

I wasn't brought up like this. I feel like the house is not only untidy but (in places) filthy. Some spots of certain rooms haven't been vacuumed for years because they're "his" & he has a great big pile of stuff that I'm not allowed to touch. I found a hand knitted woollen jumper of mine with 2 holes in it today because I can't clean properly & we have some kind of clothes beetle.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't married him. And just typing that makes me feel so sad. I don't know what to do. Except for the hoarding / untidiness, he's a good man, I think.

So sorry you’re going through this OP.

Not many suggestions for your dh, but my daughter (now 10), takes after her DF, and he hordes. He’s now my ex. With regards to her stuff I have a very very small clear out once a week. I put the things she no longer plays with or bits of paper, stones, and general crap in a bag and put in my room, if after a few weeks she doesn’t ask for it, I chuck it out. I also have a yearly blitz before every Christmas with her help, I play it that we’ll give other children, less fortunate then her, her old toys and this seems to work, she enjoys the attention she gets from the charity shop staff when we drop it all off. And as long as she’s been brave and I can see a marked improvement I give her a treat - but not more toys. A McDonald’s and we go and get our nails done, something along those lines.

Regarding your PIL, can you have a frank confer with them, make them aware of no further grandchildren if they carry on. If they continue, warn them you’ll bin the new toys if they arrive at your house. And do bin them once your dc and dh are at school and work?

Absolutely no chance of a baby unless things change completely. TBH if DH is willing to fill the house with his crap, despite having promised me, prior to marriage, that he wouldn't, I don't feel too guilty about refusing a 2nd child.

I have laid it out straight today - which I never have before - that I'm prepared to leave him over this, if he doesn't sort himself out. But it's not going to be an instant fix, I know that, it's a major MH issue. Best case scenario, it will be a few months. Realistically, it could be a year, or more. But I expect to see proper, continuing progress. His MH issues do not take priority over mine. Or my physical health.

I am going to contact the council regarding housing options. And speak to the CAB about benefits etc. As a backup plan. Can't believe I am actually having to think about this. I really thought I'd managed to find a good one.

Yesterday and today we threw away an elderly gentleman’s life into a skip. That’s what it felt like. Friend who has power of attorney told us that the man had taken what he wanted and to throw out everything else. I said if I found anything of any importance I would save it. He was a very smart proud man and I kept things I thought he might have wanted but forgot. All his shoe polish and brushes, medals and photos also letters from his earlier life. Just personal things to him. He was a hoarder and the house was filthy, think huge cobwebs dust inches thick. He had no water, the toilets were blocked and the house will probably be demolished because as you know you can’t possibly do any maintenance. He is now in a sheltered home with heat, windows that close and hot water to wash. This will be your life if you let it continue unless you take control of your own life. Better to clear out your own things than have someone else decide to get rid of it for you. We actually threw out 5 washing machines..

Pretty much everything @SendintheArdwolves said. Hoarding is a form of OCD, and requires help from a psychotherapist to reduce. I've lived with a hoarder and helped her reduce the things that were in our living space, but I know she has started again in her own place now.

It's irrational and makes no sense a lot of the time, but it might be worth trying to find out what the traumatic event was that tipped this off. It's not always the case - but hoarding does tend to follow a major personal loss of some kind.

5 washing machines? That's absolutely dreadful, that poor man. Well done to you for helping.

I suspect it's learned behaviour, in DH's case. I've a good idea I know which of his parents is the main driver of their hoarding, & very probably what the "major personal loss" was too, if that is in fact a common cause.

I've tried to talk to him again tonight about it. He claims he can't see the doctor for several weeks, due to work. Arsehole.

I know exactly where you’re coming from. In my DHs case it’s books in particular. He is the best loving husband and father but he’s really doing my head in. He’s kept every book he’s read and a case full of his coursework from uni over 40 years ago. His mum died 4 years ago (she was the best MIL in the world) and I’ve only got rid of her furniture which was stacked up in our front room. His study floor is covered in all the things he’s keeping that belonged to her and our DS now 14 toys are falling out of everywhere.
Our bedroom and DS bedroom are the only ‘normal’ rooms in the house.
I’m never away from the charity shop giving MY stuff away to create some space. I just close the door and ignore it for my own sanity.

I have hoarders in the family. They freak out at the idea of getting help.

If they were to get help then that might lead to them not having their hoard or at least to them not adding to their hoard, which is the worst thing ever so they don't get help. They panic at the mere thought of it. They definitely can't get treatment because

Your DD is 6. She can unlearn her learned behaviours but not while living with him being taught the bad ways every second she is in the house. You've got a limited time window to teach her how to live normally.

Can you do some bits while they’re both out of the house? Perhaps showing him how wonderful the house can look will spur him along? I know it’s a mh issue and believe me I understand, myself and my ex were hoarders and I think back to our first home together and it was disgusting, absolutely disgusting. Couldn’t even use the dining room/kitchen. Mould everywhere!
We got pregnant by accident and decided we had to move, my mum helped me pack up the house and just got brutal with me.. we moved and I finally saw a beautiful home with clear rooms for my baby to walk his first steps etc. And I’ve never looked back!

I have the opposite end of the stick now Nd my oh throws things away that I actually fucking need and that grinds my shit

Have you noticed that you've fallen into hoarder thinking? Here's the phrase that gives it away volume of stuff to sort through.

I bet you know which things are actually used in your house, which clothes are actually worn, etc. I bet it is a tiny tiny fraction of what you have and you know exactly where all of those things are because you use them.

You could put those things into a van for a day while a couple of hired burly types put everything else in a skip without anyone going through it.

Do you know how much money he is spending on his hoard?

Btw do not under any circumstances buy any storage space.

Hoarders are deeply selfish individuals.

They inflict hoarding on their families because they care more about the piles of useless crap they hoard than they do about their loves ones whose lives are blighted by their selfishness.

I sympathise, OP, but unless he listens to you and decides that you are more important than his piles of junk it’s inevitable that at some stage you will get to the point at which you are no longer prepared to live like this.

Good luck.

• Buy a shed for garden-- all husband's 'stuff' goes in there. He can keep what he likes so long as its in the shed.
• ALL communal/shared rooms are to be decluttered and any piles of husbands stuff gets put in shed.
• Daughter's room sorted when she is at school. She won't remember all the things she has and will enjoy playing in a space with a few toys rather than not playing with many toys. Do not discuss it with her. Just do it. She is 6.
• Put charity stuff straight in car and lock car & hide keys or drive straight to charity shop.
• Stuff from in laws goes straight into car for charity.
• No baby--you have enough on your plate with husband/family/own health issues.

Unfortunately it is the wrong advice
to say get a shed or more storage space!

And to suggest sorting through it!

The only way is to skip the lot of it bar essentials.

This is all your dd knows and it brings comfort to your DH to live like that.

But it will destroy you and sign your dd into that way of life.

Getting the council involved so that you and your dd can be rehomed and the spotlight is shown on what you have to put up with might be the only shock tactic that will actually work on op.

Your DH needs the brutal truth shone in his face. It is utterly unacceptable that it is his way or the highway.

You have a vulnerable and highly impressionable young dd living with you who should be your focus.

You will isolate her from her school friends and cause her lasting emotional damage if she can't safely be or bring friends home to play in a hygienic and safe environment.

Think of her. Stop procrastinating. Ring the council today.

His reaction says it all, he isn't going to start dealing with it.

Start making your plans to move out. Even you living apart will be unlikely to make him choose you and DD over his hoard. If you clear space he will just fill it anyway.

Your DD deserves to live in a healthy environment as do you

He can choose his work or his marriage. He needs to make an appointment and then call in sick because he is sick and needs help! It's an excuse because he doesn't intend to go and thinks you'll forget about it.

If your daughter ends up like him, what do you think the chances are that she'll marry and have children? Would you want to risk that being a low chance, with her wishing she could? Or risk that potential grandchildren live like this?

Victoriaspongecake - no space for a shed, & we've no car. Medically I can't drive, & we don't have the money for a car.

RabbitsAreTasty - by "volume of stuff to sort through" I meant that DH would be doing the sorting. A lot of it's been in there several years, it's either bagged up, filthy with dust, or both. I'm allergic to dust so I'd be wheezing & coughing. It could seriously land me in hospital with an asthma attack, just a few hours of sorting through that stuff. The idea that DH would let anyone else go through all of the stuff is laughable, he's about as capable of flying to the moon. He just shuts down when I try to discuss it, which is why I thought counselling would be good, but so far he's being difficult about that. He's always difficult about needing to see a doctor, he'd need to have a limb hanging off to admit he needed medical attention.

I will call the council today. I am so fed up about this. Need to get DD ready for school now.

I think you need to get out before your dd is too set into this, tbh. My main fear would be what it means for her - that she'll replicate this in adulthood and never have the life she could have.

Also, I'm not sure why you discuss things in the way you do with her - it sounds like you're treating her like she's older than she is, and actually that's putting a burden on her.

Your situation sounds intolerable and going by the experience shared on this thread intractable.

Anything YOU do is enabling - clearing more space just means he has the compulsion to fill it. Sorting and deciding the fate of everything will cause him great distress at the loss of control and the loss of comfort the hoard brings to him.

So it is waste of time to deal with the symptoms - major frustration for you and major stress for him.

Maybe it can be compared to any other addiction and maybe the way out is similar.

His hoarding is his “normal” from childhood and is also driven by a deep trauma/sense of loss that he has not processed but is acting out and soothing thru this behaviour/coping strategy/comfort strategy.

That’s all fine until that behaviour becomes dysfunctional and impacts negatively on others. It is a significant negative contribution to your mental and physical health - and they will continue to deteriorate as long as you are exposed to it.

It is also having a massive impact on your DD directly and your relationship with her. She is not like your DH - she is just a product of an environment she hasn’t chosen.

You need to live in separate properties immediately for your DD sake and yours. You will find an enormous weight lifted from your shoulders, your depression will lift and no doubt your physical pain will subside substantially.

Your DD needs at least one DP without a MH condition. Her DF is refusing to sort his. His need for comfort from his hoard TRUMP his daughters happiness and MH and the mental and physical health of his wife.

Move out and focus on your MH so that your DD has the best parent possible. Otherwise your life will be dragged down and your finite mental and physical energies will be dissipated fighting this losing battle. Focus on your DD.

This is his solo journey to embark on or not.

I'm no expert... but hoarding is usually rooted in anxiety caused by a traumatic loss. Hoarders comfort themselves by literally 'filling the hole' that the loss has created. My DS1 has had a serious anxiety problem. At his peak, he could not throw away the core after eating an apple, for example. He would hoard it under the bed. He made a card for a friend's birthday and could not give it away to him...As CAMHS dealt with the anxiety, the hoarding stopped.
I agree with all PPs who have said that your DH is the only one who can sort this (through therapy). Also agree that there is no point you trying to deal with the symptoms- tidying up or creating space. I think, contrary to other PPs, that it IS possible to overcome but HE has to be motivated to do so.
You need to assess if you can carry on like this. If he will not seek help, you and DD truly need to consider living separately. Yes- he does bring positives to your life, but you yourself are saying the hoarding is having a serious effect on you and DD's well being.

When my kids were little we used to go through their rooms together.
We asked 3 questions.

1. Do you love it?
2. Do you use it?
3. Is it in good working order?

From this it was decided whether it stay or was skipped/charity shop. Then as a reward for their efforts they got £5.00 ( it was a few years ago) and they could spend it on whatever they liked :) Results was we found long lost toys they loved. All the junk was gone. Beautiful spacious tidy clean rooms where they could play with their new toy/s. And it was fun lol BUT I would never throw any thing without their permission. It was about teaching them the benefits in a fun way. After my mum died I kept a load of her stuff and I had hoaded other stuff over the years. THEN I read Katen Kingston's book ' clear your clutter. It gave me permission to get rid of my mums stuff guilt free. Once I'd done that I felt so much lighter (I also have suffered bouts of depression) So I cleared the rest of the house. I think being surrounded with 'stuff' makes you feel safe. I was 18 when mum died. Your husband has suffered appalling abuse. Maybe get him to read the 'I took you to a stately Home ' thread. Just awful. He is suffering from mental health problems so really needs help to feel safe. I remember thinking if I gave mums stuff away it would mean I hadn't loved her. How daft is that? Everything is gone now and it OK . Good luck xx

Hi. I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. As someone who has hoarding tendencies (as do my kids) here are some things I've found helpful.

1. Don't buy books. Get them from a library or get ebooks.

1. Take photos of beloved creations and bits of paper that the kids can't bear to part with. Then bin them (though keep really special stuff in a 'treasures' box).

1. Can your child be persuaded to part with stuff if they get the money for it? I realised I could sell stuff on ebay or gumtree or car boots if I gave then the proceeds. This has worked wonders.

1. For birthdays, ask relatives to get stuff that u would probably be buying for your kids anyway (eg skateboard helmet, ballet leotard). (Ok, this might not work for everyone, but it seems to work with my hyper-practical family).

But in reality hoarding is a very intractable mental health issue. It's linked to a obsessive- compulsive personality disorder (which us not the same thing as OCD).

Good luck. You sound like you are making very positive steps.

Your poor DD. She won’t be able to bring friends round to play. She’ll grow up feeling isolated and ashamed. And if you don’t remove her from this situation now she’ll grow up to be a hoarder in adulthood and never realise her potential because she’ll be trapped by all her stuff.

Hi Bovril would it be worth scoring your rooms according to the Ckutter image ranking? It’s a picture scale that has been validated by psychologists in the diagnosis of hoarding. The images can be seen in this link
www.hoardingconnectioncc.org/Scale.cfm

Here are the average scores for the rooms in people with and without hoarding www.oxfordclinicalpsych.com/mobile/view/10.1093/med:psych/9780199340965.001.0001/med-9780199340965-appendix-5

It might show your DH that it’s not just untidiness but that he has a clinically scoreable disorder and genuinely needs help

I am unfortunately a hoarder - hoarders often have OCD and we have lots of rules in our heads that we have to follow before we get rid of certain stuff. i.e. if I give this away who is the best person to give it to, do I need to clean it before I give it away etc etc. It results in procrastination. Ring your doctor and ask if there is a mental health service your partner and daughter can be referred to for cognitive behavioural therapy. Hoarding is a sign of not being able to process or manage stress. Sort this out and it helps with the hoarding. You can try to help them of course, and its better than doing nothing - but its ideal if a professional can get to the root of the hoarding because unless you resolve his and her motivations for doing it...it will continue. Good luck.

I feel so sorry for your little daughter. The adults in her life need to do much, much better than this.