In shock - I’ve just been sacked

[Zofloramummy]

I’m a single mum with a mortgage. I’ve worked in the NHS for 21 years. I’ve had a really shitty few years, left an abusive relationship, struggles with my mental health and had an accident resulting in several fractures.

I have had three absences since my return from long term sickness (flu, D&V, and a horrendous reaction to antibiotics).
I went to the third formal sickness interview today and I’ve had my contract terminated.

I’m in shock I think. They’ve applied the policy to the letter so I doubt there are grounds for appeal. After years of service and being burnt out by the demands of the job I’ve been sacked.

Not sure why I’m posting I think I just need to hear some positive stories of people who have come out of the other side of this. I don’t think I want to work in the NHS any longer. I’m trying to see this as an opportunity. But I’m scared too. Not sure if relationships is the right place to post, but any advice would be great.

Wishing you good health & good luck

Get onto HR and ACAS ASAP , lodge an appeal and if l were you l would join the union even if it is just for this month and get them to look into this for you. When you have formal interviews for sickness reviews they give you the option to take someone in with you , someone of your choice who will give you moral support and bear witness to what has been said , did they go through all the proper protocol & procedures? Good luck OP.

sandy exactly what I was going to say re depression now being recodgnised as a disability.

If there is anyway you can appeal on these grounds, then do so, even if you don’t want to go back to that job.

Hi OP, the fact that you’re talking about the positive side of this means you must be mentally in a good place, there are definitely opportunities out there!!
Good luck

I have not read all of the thread and while I think you have been treated very badly, I don't want to minimise your situation, but I see it as a chance to do something different!

I found myself in dire circumstances a few years ago and was forced to come out of retirement and could only get a job as a carer. Hard work! But I've now got a job with a brilliant employer, I'm getting more qualifications and I'm doing something very rewarding. I always think things happen for a reason. Onwards and upwards. 😊💐.

vangoghsdog
....is from the conduct dismissal procedure. It does not apply (in law) to capability.
You're right of course, I had assumed that one got at least as many rights when the issue was illness, as for an accusation of breaking the rules! Sounds like you know what you're talking about, but that is pretty shocking, if you have no right to warning that you could lose your job, or to take a companion with you, for a meeting about sickness where you could be fired :-(.
We're basically saying the OP would be slightly better off if she'd made a terrible mistake and put someone at risk at work!

I’ve been at my parents until quite late. After the initial shock they have been fantastically supportive. I am very lucky to have them in my life.
A poster up thread mentioned alcohol. And yes I’ve had issues with drinking. I’ve been dry for a few months now. I have self referred to counselling and have joined online sober support groups. I never had an absence at work related to alcohol and I view it as part of the illness (depression).
Tonight instead of drowning my sorrows I’ve written a to do list and eaten pizza.

Tomorrow I’m off to Citizens Advice and the job centre.

It does show the importance of joining a Union. You would have had advice and representation when you needed it. None of us can 'really afford' the monthly subs for a union but in reality we cannot 'not ' afford it.
Best wishes op .

Oh fucking hell zoflora. We were chatting on another thread (mine) I’m in a similar situation, single mum, mortgage, health issues. I was sacked out of the blue in February after only two months. I was absolutely devastated. If you’re in nhs are you with unison or rcn? I haven’t read the ful thread but I’m in the middle of a tribunal process. Luckily my unison membership was still (barely) valid from my old job.
Let me know if you want to chat about any of it.
Sorry, really sorry for you as I know how fucking frightening it is a lone parent with a mortgage x

If they are giving three months' severance are they using a Settlement Agreement? If so you will not be able to appeal or take a case for disability discrimination to an ET. I am surprised you are getting severance pay for a dismissal. Although linked to absence it is a disciplinary sanction usually. You will have been warned you may lose your job.

The severance payment imo indocates they are concerned about the disability issue otherwise you wpuld not be getting three months pay. If there is a settlement Agreement you shoukd be able to negotiate your reference though.

Speaking honestly, your absences have been very very high however and I don't think your employer is being unreasonable

I wish you well op. Get well.

Same situation really. 10 years service. I took a care job to get a reference but am still doing it now, 2 evenings a week
I got a FT contract doing after sales for a prestige car brand. Less pay (only by maybe £300 a month which the care makes up), much less stress!

PM me if you need to chat or vent at all

Sounds good op well done. This time next year you'll look back on this as a bad dream.

OP don't appeal. The only way you could win an appeal is by showing that they made an error in the way they have applied their policies. From what you've written, it sounds like they made sure to follow these carefully.

Not undermining your issues, but high sickness levels and unreliability of staff has had a significant impact on the NHS. The person affected will understandably only think about themselves, but the consequences of it is destabilisation of services but from the perspective of safety of care and finances. Trusts are now monitored closely for their workforce, and will be challenge for high level of sickness and turnover because of the above impact.

I think you are right that it is time to turn the page and look for something else. It's a real pity that you didn't consider the impact that taking that last day off would have. Personally, I would have gone to work anyway, even if sick, because sickness due to taking antibiotics is not contagious so would have had no impact on patients.

My advice would be, once you get over the shock, to consider how you can manage your sickness for future roles. You talk about applying to jobs with the Council. I believe that they are much stricter with sickness than the NHS is, and many won't offer any sickness pay in the first year of employment.

It's hard to work when you suffer from mental health, so maybe your focus needs to be on how to cope with going to work even when you are struggling, or if you are really unable to do so, then maybe you are better off on benefits for some time to get stronger so you can go back to work with confidence that this won't be an issue again. Good luck OP.

OP don't appeal. The only way you could win an appeal is by showing that they made an error in the way they have applied their policies. From what you've written, it sounds like they made sure to follow these carefully.

Or by showing they didn’t make a reasonable adjustment in the first place for health issues covered by the Equality Act.

Spotting - they don't. Occupational health recommended my sickness triggers were raised as I have a tendency to infection as immunosuppressed (for life) and they refused to do it. Said it's a recommendation and they don't have to

@Ollivander84

'A tendency to infection' is not a disability under the Act though, so no, they don't 'have to' follow the suggestion.

They DO have to make 'reasonable adjustments' (not 'every single adjustment anyone can think of', just 'reasonable' ones) for a disability under the Act. There is a definition: "a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities."

www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010

Obviously there is a lot of case law around that too.

@RaindropsOnKittens43

The employer still has to act 'reasonably' and a big employer like the NHS would be in trouble if they did not follow a fair process (a small employer like, say a corner shop, might have more leeway). Ultimately only a tribunal can say what is 'fair' and 'reasonable', which is why employers take advice, to look at most recent case law in the area.

Sad though it is, the NHS (and any employer) simply cannot continue to function if people are not there. And in these days of recession and 'austerity', there's not much wriggle room for employers on productivity.

100 Bradford points is low, I usually recommend 250 as the starting point. My current workplace, we had to downsize last year and used absence as one of the selection criteria. I introduced Bradford here and some people had over 5,000 points!

@OhTheRoses

I am surprised you are getting severance pay for a dismissal.

I assumed it was actually contractual notice pay. It's not a summary dismissal, so notice would be payable (taxed) - it's quite rare, IME, to dismiss with notice, but not unheard of.

I'm really surprised that people are saying the public sector is more lenient than the private sector. After several years working in the public sector and the third sector, I'm in the private sector now and the benefits are much, much better. I have a chronic health condition and they've been wonderful.

If you have been burnt out for years, I'd consider this is a good chance for a new start. You probably have lots of useful transferable skills and I would try and consider a wide range of possibilities for future work.

“Sickness due to antibiotics isn’t contagious”
Hmmmm c diff anyone???

OP i’m sorry this has happened. The NHS is a failing organisation and staff turnover is unacceptably high. I speak from bitter experience as after 10 years unblemished sickness record, i had a complicated molar miscarriage, and two lots of surgery for life threatening conditions and then was hospitalised with pneumonia and had a broken bone. They were unspeakably shit!

Good luck you really are better off out of it.

I've worked in NHS and private sector.

Private sector looks after you better with better benefits and some even pay your subs, a car

Search emedcareers..put your cv up and agencies will bombard you....take them with a pinch of salt...but they'll be one or two reputable long standing ones....research the different jobs, the different companies and get an idea of the direction you want to take

If your a nurse....search clinical nurse trainer roles, DWP assesment nurses etc...the list goes on

It may not feel like it but it could be they've done you a favour. A change of pace and employe maybe just what you need.

I'm back in the nhs and its brutal. Not replacing staff that leave, piling more work on, my role is two peoples job rolled into one....very pressured and stressful. Sickness is high because colleagues are burned out. I burned out last year.

I stay because I'm in the process of a project that will improve care for the people I care for. Management have accepted it because there's a revenue to it.

Once it's up and running, people in place, kinks worked out...ill be looking for something different.

Van- I get that but considering I was so neutropenic I was barrier nursed and having to take drugs used when on chemo, I did think they might have so empathy. Instead someone with a chest infection sat next to me, I caught it, got pneumonia and then was disciplined for my sickness

My summary notice pay wasn't taxed

Sorry this has happened to you OP. A colleague had the misfortune to be sacked for many bouts of sickness - public facing role in A & E - hardly surprising. She now works at a different hospital as an agency/bank nurse. She loves it. She has her pick of jobs. Chooses her hours, gets paid more and doesn't get involved in reviews or drama.