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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

In shock - I’ve just been sacked

298 replies

Zofloramummy · 02/08/2018 15:00

I’m a single mum with a mortgage. I’ve worked in the NHS for 21 years. I’ve had a really shitty few years, left an abusive relationship, struggles with my mental health and had an accident resulting in several fractures.

I have had three absences since my return from long term sickness (flu, D&V, and a horrendous reaction to antibiotics).
I went to the third formal sickness interview today and I’ve had my contract terminated.

I’m in shock I think. They’ve applied the policy to the letter so I doubt there are grounds for appeal. After years of service and being burnt out by the demands of the job I’ve been sacked.

Not sure why I’m posting I think I just need to hear some positive stories of people who have come out of the other side of this. I don’t think I want to work in the NHS any longer. I’m trying to see this as an opportunity. But I’m scared too. Not sure if relationships is the right place to post, but any advice would be great.

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 03/08/2018 11:39

Oh and also told my cauda equina surgery "could have waited" Hmm

LuluJakey1 · 03/08/2018 11:40

You are being very honest OP and I admire you for that and am sorry you have had such a tough time.

To everyone saying how terribly you have been treated, employers are not charities. 3 long term abscences in 4 years - and we don't know how long they were- 3 short term absences in 10 months with possibly other short term abscences in that 4 year period, is a lot of absence by any standards. Public services are very tolerant of absence in comparison to many private companies and have much lnger full-pay sickness periods. But they employ people to do a job, not to regularly be paying them while they are absent and having to pay someone else to cover for them.
I don't think the OP has been treated harshly from the info she has given us.

Sequencedress · 03/08/2018 11:44

Hello my love, just wanted to offer support, and say I get it. I was sacked about 5-6 years ago ( I was very unwell and didn't have the strength to appeal it - which the bastards knew, and they knew I'd have likely won - no matter, I no longer wanted to work for people who treated their employees so badly when they're poorly, anyway I digress!) and took on some voluntary work in order to secure a reference - I didn't trust my previous employer not to screw me over.
After a year I found another job, and 4 years later I'm about to be promoted to management. You're going to be just fine Flowers

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 12:52

@Ollivander84

There's no such thing as "summary notice pay". Contractual notice pay is taxable and always has been, in fact all notice pay is taxable from this year due to new rules.

Severance and redundancy pay are not taxable up to thirty k. Payments under a settlement agreement same.

Just because your notice pay was not taxed does not mean it wasn't taxable. Employers often get things wrong and it's been a confused area for years.

If you are summarily dismissed you get no notice pay at all.

Ollivander84 · 03/08/2018 13:00

Oops. I worded it wrong! It wasn't summary dismissal so I got notice pay plus holiday pay is what I meant

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 13:18

If the notice pay was not in your contract as pay in lieu of notice, then they might have got away with not taxing it.

Notice pay which was detailed in the contract was always taxable as it was a contractual entitlement therefore part of your expected remuneration. But if your contract was silent on paying out notice they may have decided to do it tax free. Though they can still be caught out if they do it a lot it becomes contractual by custom and practice, so therefore taxable! So most employers, at least for the last ten years, have been taxing it.

But all notice pay is taxable since new rules April just gone.

Accrued holiday pay is always taxable.

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 13:19

(just for the avoidance of doubt, even if you are summarily dismissed with no notice pay, you do still get your accrued holiday pay and other contractual rights up to the last day)

SandyY2K · 03/08/2018 13:30

even if you are summarily dismissed with no notice pay, you do still get your accrued holiday pay and other contractual rights up to the last day

You'd get accrued annual leave and paid up till the dismissal date. I'm not sure what other contractual rights you're referring to.

Contractually you have the right to be given notice...except in cases of a summarily dismissal.

Original poster
Zofloramummy · 03/08/2018 13:31

So this morning I have been in contact with my boss. I have received my termination letter. I will get the severance pay (or whatever it’s called) on the next due pay date.
I’m currently job hunting, and I think I’ve found something that interests me. It’s in education. Term time hours and less hours overall. My boss has said she will happily give me a reference. After all I have no issue with her personally, she has simply followed a procedure.

Regarding the antibiotics. I was literally projectile vomiting. I also had explosive diarrhoea (sorry if tmi!) and I am aware of c diff (highly contagious).

For everyone saying that absence is a major issue they are correct. 2 of my long term absences were triggered by burn out from covering other staff. When I first took my position 10 years ago my role evolved to cover what was 3 roles, 3 inpatient services and a community service. We have loads approx a third of the workforce from then. It isn’t sustainable.

My concern now is in getting back into a job with less responsibility and a more friendly work life balance ASAP. I know that this will be a challenge but I have such a lot to offer and honestly feel mentally so much stronger than I’ve been in years. These last 7 months or so (since I started counselling) have been a continuous improvement. I’m no longer medicated after years of AD’s.

I still feel like this is going to be an opportunity for something new, a fresh start.

OP posts:
Original poster
Zofloramummy · 03/08/2018 13:32

Thanks dragonflyflew good luck with your tribunal. It is bloody scary and I hope you’re doing ok x

OP posts:
LittleMG · 03/08/2018 13:33

I left a previous professional job after being ‘hounded out’ as I saw it. This was 2.5 years ago. I retrained, found a new job - weirdly in the same field I had worked it before but now I had more skills. My life now is unrecognisable, so happy, pregnant with first baby - never thought I would have confidence to become a mum. Also, great job, new friends and much better work and life balance. What I’m trying today is what they have done to u is wrong but for it was the break I needed to sort m life out. Good luck this might just be the opportunity u needed to make your life work for u again x

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 13:34

Well, Sandy, all contracts are different so there could be all sorts of contractual rights. Like car allowance/car, pension, healthcare etc etc. My point was, you get all your contractual rights up to the date of dismissal. No longer, but also no less, so not the date of the deed, or the date of the meeting, or the date you may have been suspended, or the date you went off sick, or the date on the letter, etc.

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 13:36

And, no, not all notice is contractual, some is statutory, many contracts don't mention notice and just use the statutory notice requirements.

crunchymint · 03/08/2018 13:39

I suspect OP has 3 months pay because of the length of time she has worked there. And this will be the maximum statutory notice.

Pancakeflipper · 03/08/2018 13:46

Good luck Zofloramummy - kick ass and embrace the new opportunities ahead. Sounds like your mental health will be thanking you in a few years.

A horrid event but it won't break you.

Dontstepinthecowpat · 03/08/2018 13:50

I am sorry this has happened to you, and that the NHS has lost another member of staff. Certain health boards have very strict absence management policies so as you have said they will have followed the correct procedures to the letter.

I triggered absence management once in my NHS career, it was just a few weeks of bad luck but I thought I would lose my job.

Absence 1, off 1 shift as I crashed my car and wrote it off on the way to work so actually couldn't get in. I was back the next night. Absence 2, I had a minor op booked and annual leave was declined so I had to take a day off as sick leave, Absence 3 miscarriage, 1 day absence onto my two days off so returned 3 days post miscarriage for my return to work which asked the question 'what can we do to support you from being off due to this issue again'. Luckily as this was pregnancy related it didn't trigger absence management policy.

I saw a colleague with depression sacked and shockingly one who was going through cancer treatment.

I hope this is the beginning of something better for you, after 15 years service I do not miss my NHS career at all.

ALongHardWinter · 03/08/2018 14:10

Sorry to hear this OP,I've nothing useful to add. But I'm totally shocked that the National HEALTH service,of all employers,has been so totally unsympathetic about your illnesses.

387I2 · 03/08/2018 14:19

It says here that every tenth job as a nurse in England is vacant. Seems you had bad luck with your previous employer but don't dwell too much on that now. You will probably find a new job sooner than you think, and if you're thinking about getting a fresh start, your priority no one could be to take a stop-gap job (temporarily) and spend the time thinking about what you really want to do, and what is needed to get there. I'm glad you're feeling better now than seven years ago, and likewise it's positive that your soon-to-be former boss will give you a good reference.

NicoAndTheNiners · 03/08/2018 14:30

I’ve also seen someone having cancer treatment sacked by the nhs. Shocking way to treat a hardworking member of staff after 20 years!

Fluffycloudland77 · 03/08/2018 15:25

I was offered a post once because they said they had a vacancy coming up.

They were bullying a woman out of her job because she'd had a car crash and would need pensioning off early at some point, it was cheaper to get her out.

I declined, they were surprised.

blueangel1 · 03/08/2018 15:28

Unfortunately the NHS has been under pressure from the DoH for years about what they coyly term "absence management". They are applying a gradually decreasing annual absence percentage and trusts have really had no alternative than to become much more punitive over sickness.

Sadly, I have sat with staff whose contracts have been terminated for breaching targets. Admittedly, there are a small number of people who take the piss, but most sickness is taken because staff are genuinely ill and can't get to work.

As someone else has already said, it is a brutal procedure to go through, and once you're in it, the pressure is extreme and I have had union members sobbing down the phone to me because they are ill and frightened to take sick leave.

It's something I really don't miss about the NHS now I've been out of it for a couple of years.

@Zofloramummy - I've DM'd you.

VanGoghsDog · 03/08/2018 23:51

"I suspect OP has 3 months pay because of the length of time she has worked there. And this will be the maximum statutory notice."

12 weeks is the maximum statutory notice, not 3 months. But, yes, I think the 'severance pay' referred to is the notice pay.

SandyY2K · 04/08/2018 01:44

Well, Sandy, all contracts are different so there could be all sorts of contractual rights. Like car allowance/car, pension, healthcare etc etc. My point was, you get all your contractual rights up to the date of dismissal.

Ahhh...I misread.
I thought you asked a question rather than making a statement.

Indeed all contractual entitlements would be up till the actual dismissal date.

Original poster
Zofloramummy · 04/08/2018 23:01

Well I’ve got through today. I’ve been pottering around the house doing jobs and spending time with my DD.
I’ve had a few moments of panic but I’m trying to rationalise. Tomorrow I’m taking her to a soft play centre (had prebought a summer pass).
I told her I’ve got some extra time off over the summer holidays and that I’m looking for another job that’s closer to home. I didn’t tell her I’ve lost mine obviously.
She got a bit upset as she said she tells her friends I work for the NHS. That was upsetting for me too. I feel like I’ve let her down.

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 05/08/2018 06:11

No you haven’t let her down. It is what it is. Dh and I went to view a house that dd would love to live in. It would have been more for her than us as it’s deffo not our dream house but it would have been ok to live there. We can’t think about it right now as dh doesn’t have a job. She’s coping just fine with it. Of course she’s upset and the house will likely be sold. But if we end up having to move for dhs job we can’t have just bought a house, which needs work doing to it. That would be financial suicide as it’s not on the best street. It’s just got land attached to it.