In shock - I’ve just been sacked

[Zofloramummy]

I’m a single mum with a mortgage. I’ve worked in the NHS for 21 years. I’ve had a really shitty few years, left an abusive relationship, struggles with my mental health and had an accident resulting in several fractures.

I have had three absences since my return from long term sickness (flu, D&V, and a horrendous reaction to antibiotics).
I went to the third formal sickness interview today and I’ve had my contract terminated.

I’m in shock I think. They’ve applied the policy to the letter so I doubt there are grounds for appeal. After years of service and being burnt out by the demands of the job I’ve been sacked.

Not sure why I’m posting I think I just need to hear some positive stories of people who have come out of the other side of this. I don’t think I want to work in the NHS any longer. I’m trying to see this as an opportunity. But I’m scared too. Not sure if relationships is the right place to post, but any advice would be great.

Not practical, but I can offer support and understanding.

I worked in the NHS and was the disabled staff rep when these policies were being put in place locally. It was horrendous - hospital appointments were to be taken as sick leave for maximum amount of time like an hour( yes in NHS hospital where everyone over runs), anything not in your hospital must be annual leave, including operations and time off after, too many and it's so many points, not allowed time off if you've been off sick or time off sick if you've just had annual leave, double points on a Monday if I'll, triple points if off on Friday/your birthday/bank holidays without annual leave.

You were allowed something like ten points a year. Long period off was also set at so many points, the maths was delibrately complex so no one could trick the system and made zero sense.

No extra points if disabled because they're an equal opportunities employer.

The nhs are always horrible to ill staff. Doesn't surprise me at all.

Can you do agency?. I did agency for years.

Yes it is too late. Most unions will not give you advice about an issue at this stage if you are not already a member.

@flashz
You make yourself look really condescendingly stupid making such comments. mrs2468 and I were referring to telling a pregnant woman to go on maternity leave and that she would not have a job to go back to. A pregnant woman cannot be dismissed due to her pregnancy as far as I’m aware. I thought this was unlawful discrimination. But please do go ahead and crow about the advice, which neither of us gave.

Agency is a good suggestion if you can work with the unpredictability.

I am so sorry to read of your plight,i think its disgusting that people can be sacked for unavoidable sickness/accidents etc
My son was stabbed a few years ago, [no one he knew or had any trouble with],he was called in for a back to work interview, [forgot what its called] and given a warning because of absence

I hope you can get something better with someone who treats you better

I would find it as an opportunity to find a better job.it is actually amazing what people can do if they find them selves in hard situations, good luck with everything,and if you need free legal advise ring citizen advice ,they will defo put you in right direction.

So sorry you are in the situation, it sounds horrible. Lots of good dlasvice here - also, are you getting good help for your underlying mh issues also?
While a lot of people on here have said that NHS management is unhelpful, to have 3 long term sick episodes in 4 years plus 3 shorter term ones in a fairly short time since returning from the latest would have been exceptionally generous by the standards of most private employers. Smaller ones can't afford it, larger ones are less tolerant.
Not mentioning this to knock you down, but to say that if this pattern is likely to have to continue then choose very careful and personally I'd say that staying in the public sector is likely to give you more flex than many private sector areas. As a pp said, be very frugal with your severance pay so you can enjoy some time at home and make sure that you find the right role not have to accept in a panic - and hope you can find something better suited very soon.

I'm really shocked to hear this, anyone can fall sick, I hope ACAS can help you

So sorry OP, you have always struck me as a lovely poster

I'd really suggest that you consider appealing the decision. You may get no where but decisions are very often over turned by non-exec directors so push it. By getting the decision to terminate over turned - even you don't actually get your job back - you have a much better reference. You have nothing to lose effectively except the time to prepare an appeal. If you feel they have followed procedure then you need to talk about any lack of support that you felt to return to work, how you are currently fit to work - and if possible the efforts you've made to get fit (either mentally or physically) and emphasis the shortage of nurses and your experience / amount of training that has gone into you. Try and keep yourself busy either by agency work or maybe volunteering - you say that you'd like a school job so maybe some volunteering in that line - so that you can show that you can hold down a job. There is loads of info out there or you can go to your local CAB. A solicitor will provide 30 mins free but it is unlikely to be enough. CAB will look at benefits for you too. I doubt - I'm afraid - that the union will be much use now as they usually wont take on an existing issue but worth checking if they would contact an appeal as a new issue or not. Its worth a phonecall because they may be having issues with your Trust and therefore be interested in your experience if that makes sense. Above all please try and give yourself options. You can withdraw your appeal at any point but will only have so long to make it. Good luck

I get the impression that many government related or funded bodies are absolutely cracking down on sickness absence, probably sacking people at the first opportunity. You must be in absolute shock, OP. What a bloody awful thing to happen, but thank goodness for the severance pay.

I hope you find something which allows you to manage financially but still have plenty of time to spend with your daughter. Maybe this is the push that will help you do that.

In her original post, the OP said I don’t think I want to work in the NHS any longer

I think appealing would be a waste of her energy, add to stress levels, take too long and divert her attention from finding something she does want to do (not to mention her beverage pay running out before she finds another job). Just my opinion!

It’s not too late to join a union for advice.

Yes it is, most unions have a 3m moratorium one claims to stop people joining, paying one month sub and then using then and leaving the union immediately after.

I like beverage pay

OP - I was fired four years ago (not NHS), also because of my sickness record. I was still on probation so had no warning and it was a huge shock. I don’t disagree with what they did - my sickness record wasn’t good (undiagnosed ME) but the way they did it was awful. I managed to hold it together till I left the office then sat on the steps and cried for about an hour.

A few days later I realised I needed some time off. I was studying as well as working, and I had to move house that month. I sold some stuff to fund a short break from work, finished my course a lot healthier than when I started it, and am now working in a different field and am much more fulfilled. I look back and I’m so so glad I don’t work there anymore. Anyone who can treat their staff like that doesn’t deserve them.

I also think this will be a blessing in disguise for you.

@Mummyoflittledragon - the post you refer to did not say the woman was sacked, it said there would not be a job to come back to, we don't know why not, maybe the business is closing or relocating?

That post was very odd. You don't get 9m leave, you get 12m leave, so I'd take the rest with a large pinch of salt too. Though it is lawful to instigate mat leave for a woman who is off sick with maternity related ill-health after a certain date in the pregnancy, and 8m is certainly past that date.

I can't understand how 3 bouts of sickness in 10 months would even trigger a warming??

Very easily. Our shortest trigger is 3 days over 3 consecutive months.

From a HR perspective....
It's not just about the last three bouts...but they would trigger in place...It's the organisation's view on whether the employee is likely to sustain an acceptable attendance level and deliver efficient and effective service.

In reaching their decision they would have looked at the absence over the last couple of years and taken into consideration any recommendations for reasons adjustments occupational health may have made and support given.

If having supported you ...and made adjustments the attendance was still an issue ... and the recent absences were not as a result of an underlying medical condition or disability... they will feel they have done everything possible and have no alternative but to dismiss.

They would also consider the impact of her absence on patients/service users and colleagues.

They would look at associated costs...like getting agency staff.

If I was in this position I'd use the 3 months depression linking it to disability to appeal and I'd be looking for comparable individuals with poor attendance who haven't been dismissed.

Not being represented by the UNION hasn't helped you...because it made it easier to dismiss. They would have represented lots of staff and known of other cases to defend your case.

Organisations have to do more than follow the policy to the letter...especially with long serving employees.

VanGogh
Yes true I assumed it meant sacked. I did notice the 9 months, just assumed it was the poster not up to speed with current legislation.

Sandy
That’s really useful information. I hope this is helpful to the op.

Whilst appealing there is nothing to stop the OP getting another job - if she is able to without a reference or with a reference that says she was subject to disciplinary procedures and dismissed. She can either withdraw the appeal and / or get her employment record changed. In most jobs she will have to say why she left her last job. Being able to say role ended rather than dismissed may be best outcome. She doesn’t have to accept her old job back. Yes it’s stressful but appealing may help with benefits, getting a new job, keeping registration etc.

Agree with @SandyY2K - the HR view is accurate. It is too late to join a union, sorry. I was a senior Unison rep for nearly 20 years. DM me if you want to pick my brains.

Thank you all so much for replying. There is some really helpful advice on here. I have had a telephone call with citizens advice this afternoon and am going to their drop in session. I’ve also started a benefit claim online (citizens advice said because it was a sickness issue and not misconduct I should qualify).

For those of you who mentioned volunteering as a means to obtaining a reference and also different experiences that is a brilliant idea. I hadn’t even thought of references. There are colleagues I could approach for a character reference but anything in addition would be beneficial.

I’ve managed to eat a sandwich. So that’s positive and I’m about to go and tell my parents. I know this is going to be a massive shock for them.

I’ve had a look at some jobs online and there are a few temporary contract positions with the council and charities in tenancy support for vulnerable residents that I would probably have an appropriate skill set for. Also most of the supermarkets are recruiting.

I need to take some time ( but not long) to decide if I’m going to appeal.

Thank you blueangel I will pm you when I’ve managed to regain a rational thought process!

And for everyone posting about a positive outcome after dismissal thank you. It gives me hope that this is the (bumpy) start to something new and not the end of a long career.

I think Mental health may be protected under the disability act. Call ACAS for advice.

It does seem to be like you've not been happy at work, and this could be the fresh opportunity that you need :-)