Something's not right here...

[Onedaysoon]

I've had lots and lots of problems with H in the past; we split up for a while due to his controlling ways and general nastiness. He wore me down though and eventually I moved back in with the children.
He promised to make an effort, but to be honest nothing really changed, although he did tone down the abuse.
BUT...lately he's been spending an enormous amount of time and money on his mobile phone and is very secretive about it. For reasons I won't go into I have had suspicions about him for a while, so have been checking his phone (don't jump on me for that...I do have very good reasons for it), and discovered text messages from his mobile phone provider saying he was a VIP chat member. He is also topping his phone up EVERY night, by at least £10 per night, sometimes £20 per night, so is spending on average £70 per week - however we are in dire financial straits. He tops it up at 11.30 pm one night, 1.15 am another night...
I found another SIM card which he carries around with him and put it in my phone, and there were messages on there from presumably a woman, things like 'thanks, you're not bad yourself', and 'yes sorry but I'm up now and have to get ready for work'...nothing overtly flirtatious but still odd, not least because they are on a 'secret' SIM. he also has another mobile which he said he no longer uses, however he does becase he keeps that one in his car, it's always charged and he also tops that one up regularly.
We sleep separately so he can be on his phone all night; however, if I get up to go to the loo for instance I can guarantee that he will be on his phone but when I ask what he's doing he says he's playing games. I may well have believed him but for the fact that he has VIP membership to a chat room, and he's spending 10 - 20 pounds a night.
Now he's taken to keeping his phone on silent. The other morning I came down to find him asleep on the settee where he had had his phone on charge and fallen asleep in such a position that he could reach the phone whilst charging!
He's also always trying to get me and the kids out of the house; asking me to go to the shops for him, or 'do you want to go and get some fresh air for ten minutes' etc (I decline, and it was whilst I was away for the weekend a few weeks ago that he got these messages on his other phone...I said at the time that he was trying to push me into going away for that weekend!
Last night a message came through on his phone; it was on silent but the static on the pc gave it away...he said it was o2 saying his phone had been topped up, and that he had done it on his way home. However, I am with o2 also and whenever I top up the confirmation comes through immediately.
Sorry it's so long, but doesn't this all sound very suspect or am I being paranoid?
I can't confront him as the fallout of me 'snooping' on him would be catastrophic (there has been abuse in the past), and the marriage is over but I need concrete proof that he is messing about as, when I have asked him for a divorce in the past he has said that it's all my fault, or the kids' fault and has managed to make me feel that I am going mad!

Update: he came back and had called the said woman whilst he was out!

it sounds like hes having a 'real' affair as well from that.

also he must be downloading porn or something from one of those really expensive places.he must be pretty thick,does he not realise you can get stuff like that for just the cost of browsing wap?!

seriously,though,please please take steps to get rid of him.he doesnt deserve any more of your time.

The man is clearly stupid. I hope you find a way to get out soon. In the meantime, make sure you keep yourself mentally and physically safe by not maybe letting him know you're on to him and staying out of his way. You don't want to get hurt....

Hi. I don't know if he's having a 'real' affair as such, but even the fact that he's sneaking out of the house to call her, or texting her late at night is to me 'emotional' infidelity. He doesn't talk to me, never has from the moment we got married. And yet the fact that he can talk to this woman at length really hurts. He used to talk to me for hours before we married, and then that stopped the minute we took our vows.
Add to that the fact that he's in chat rooms and I feel totally let down and...I don't know...worthless really. He prefers the company of 'virtual' anonymous women and someone else to his own wife.
But then, he did stay the weekend with her some time ago which doesn't bode well does it? he stayed at another 'friend's' house (also a woman) and this woman was also there for the entire weekend. Again, even if nothing untoward happened (and I'm not convinced it didn't) I think that's an entirely inappropriate way for a married man to behave.

Also, I've noticed that he is drinking a fair bit at the weekends again. He had a drink problem before we met apparently, but seemed to have kicked the habit but he's regularly drinking 7 or 8 cans (large ones) a day at the weekend. Is this a lot? I don't know as I don't drink a lot but it seems a hell of a lot to me. And then after sinking that lot last night he went out in the garden with a flame thrower to burn the weeds. That just doesn't seem safe to me.

Bump

It's not an apporpriate way for him to behave. And sounds like he is boozing a bit too much, for what it's worth.
When are you planning on ditching him? Have you made any plans?

Hi Ellie. No plans as such, just that I want out and away from him. The very real problem is that the only way I can get him to leave is to file for divorce, but those papers would be served on him whilst he is still living here and I am so afraid of what would happen in the meantime. He has done nothing apparent for me to get an occupation order against him IYSWIM. In fact to all intents and purposes he is behaving himself, at least to any observer. I have told him many times it's over and he says 'fine, so leave. You know where the door is' or 'well mind the door doesn't hit you on the a**e on the way out'. There is no way he will leave. So until I have the strength and/or proof I am in a kind of limbo.

Where does he suggest you and the children go? Is the house in both your names>

Do you rent your place? Would you be able to afford to stay there without him? Would he be able to keep it up without you? Is very silly for him to stay as he doesn't need the room.
What sort of 'proof' do you need for an occupation order?
Sorry for all the questions

Hi Ellie It's a council house, so I'd be able to claim housing beneft until I got back on my feet. If we moved out however, he would be made to leave by the council anyway as it'd be under occupied. But he would rather do that than move out peacefully and let me and the kids stay here. The rules are that either of us can end the joint tenancy without the others consent! He actually did this when me and kids were in the refuge! But withdrew it.
For an emergency occupation order to be enforced there has to be proof of danger/physical violence etc.

Would it be worthwhile speaking to the council to see if they can re-house you? Or maybe support you in getting him out?

i really think it would be worth you contacting womens aid if you havent already,or see if there are any local domesic abuse support groups.i know thw law hasnt quite caught up yet with regards to emotional abuse,but these groups are well aware of it and the damage it causes,and im sure they would help you figure out your options.

dont know if i said this before but ive been in 2 abusive relationships.the first lasted 4 years on and off and was both emotional and physical.i got over the physical attacks years ago but i still bear the emotional scars.

the longer you are with him,the worse it will be.the amount of money he's spending alone constitutes unreasonable behaviour i would have thought.surely it could be better spent on the dc?

fwiw i agree that going in chatrooms,chatting to/texting other women,staying with other women for the weekend etc are all cheating,regardless of whether anything sexual is going on.

maybe you could tell him you want to seperate,and when he goes on about staying in the house say 'fine,as long as you're not going to have a problem with me bringing other men back'

Hi Ellie. Unbelievably the council won't rehouse me and the kids as we are already tenants in this house. The only way they could rehouse us would be if we gave up the tenancy on this house, which would render us all homeless and they said there is a strong chance that we will end up in a homeless shelter for up to 6 months! Not an option. They were also as much use as t*ts on a fish when it came to asking for their help in getting him to move.
Divastrop: LOL @ me bringing other men back! I'd love to say that to him but I daren't as he is pretty unpredictable and if anyone tries to 'cross' him he is not pleasant. I am also determined to stay 'squeeky clean' so he has nothing to throw at me in his defence. I opened some more bank letters today from a couple of weeks ago; his bank is demanding he cuts up his credit cards and sends them back (he hasn't) as he is also 12k overdrawn on his bank account!!! That's besides the 12k he owes on one credit card, the 2k on another etc. His standing order for one credit card alone is £250 per month and the bank is refusing to pay it!!!! That's a hell of a lot to pay back per month isn't it, on one credit card?

when i was living in a council house with nasty xh,i was told that i couldnt get an emergency occupation order(which would require him to leave within 24 hours or something)as i wasnt in any immediate danger,but i could get one that would take about 3 weeks to go through?
the council said i would have to get him to write a letter relinquishing his half of the tenancy to me.i wrote a letter and got him to sign it by refusing to give him his JSA which got paid into my bank,unless he signed the letter and was out by 9am.

i got lots of advice and support from my local domestic abuse support group,the local homeless shelter(where he went when he left)and my friends.i had it all planned and was shit scared but determined to get him out.
btw my xh was mainly emotionally abusive,he did hit me but only once.

Divastrop - sounds like a horrid time but that you are a very strong person.
Maybe you could ask at CAB or lawyer about that 3 week thing onefineday? Think contacting local domestic abuse group good idea too - they are usually very helpful and very knowledgeable.
I wish I could help you more, I really feel for you going through all this, it's a shitty situation and it's a shame the council can't help you more.

Hi Divastrop. Unfortunately he has me by the short and curlies as I have nothing to hold over him. He controls all the money in the household and there is nothing else I can use to make him leave.
he didn't leave his phone out of his sight for a second last night. he took it into the bathroom with him again when he had a bath, then had it on charge next to him all evening, then when I put the kids to bed I noticed he had taken it off charge and must have had it under the covers with him (the mind boggles...maybe it's the vibration he likes?)

Hi Onedaysoon,
Just wanted to add also that I have first hand experience of an abusive husband. Left him over 4 years ago. It is so typical of those types to have addictions (the chatrooms, alcohol etc.) and they have absolutely no intention of even attempting to control themselves. Mine was forever spending money that we didn't have, and always saying that this was the last thing he needed....They live for the moment, and think nothing of the effects of theor behaviour on other people who are supposed to be precious to them. Also, the twisting round of blame is a common thing. Have you read the book about abusive men by Lundy Bancroft (I think that's his name..)It is sooooo accurate, and it really helps you to clear up your head, and know for fact that you are not going mad.
I suppose I am kind of grateful that his abuse was all encompassing, including severe physical abuse, so I got all the support I needed to get away without having to try to explain the subtle abuses (which were in fact more soul destroying that having your head bashed).
When I left my husband, one thing that really helped was that I decided at one point to REFUSE point blank to communicate with him ever again. And I have stuck with that. He tried everything under the sun to get me to respond to him, to argue with him. It took a lot of self-control, but it helped get things into perspective, not having to deal with his manipulative arguments and twisting of truths.
By the way, can I ask - have you considered the possibility that he could be snooping on mumsnet and reading this? I know my ex used to check what I'd been doing online.
Hopefully he thinks you are so stupid and naive and don't realise what he's doing. Carry on pretending to believe his ridiculous excuses about charging up the phone etc. Appear dumb and ignorant. It could save your skin!

Hi Squarehead, and yes...I have read the book and yes, it is amazine and should be compulsory reading for any woman from the age she starts dating! It'd save an awful lot of heartache if we knew the signs to look out for and ran before they developed!!! It is a lifesaver and I think reading that was the turning point in my mindset.
I'm sorry you had an a**e of a H too; so many women go through it but well done you for getting out! I'm sorry also that yours was physical also. I might be lynched for saying this but sometimes I wish it did become physical as then I;d have something tangible to show people; does that make sense?
It has crossed my mind that maybe he checks mumsnet, yes. But to be honest, I don't care. I don't think he does but you never know. He'd have to trawl through an awful lot of threads to find it, and not sure he'd have the patience to do that. Maybe it'd make him see himself in a new light when he realised how other people viewed his behaviour.
Anyway, another day dawns, and who knows what it'll bring?

Hi. I took the bull by the horns and texted the woman who had sent texts to his 'secret' SIM card. She admitted that she 'meets' men in chatrooms late at night, and that only 2 men she had been chatting to admitted being married...all the rest said they were divorced...and guess what? he wasn't one of the 2 who admitted it!!! She doesn't know exactly who he is (she must chat to a lot of men!) but admits that they must have been in a 'private' chat room to exchange mobile numbers and photos! So there, definitive proof! Not gambling, not gaming...just picking up women!

Well done onedaysoon! What are you going to do with this info?

Ellie...I don't know! Do I confront him? Do I say nothing and see what else happens? There will be hell to pay when he realises I have been checking up on him but gut instinct told me something was going on and I was right.

Most important thing is to keep yourself physically and emotionally safe. If you confront him will you be at risk? What will you gain by speaking to him? - do you think it will help you get him out?

What I mean is, there is no way I will continue with this relationship...after all the abuse etc and now he's doing this? I'm worth more. BUT I don't know what to do in the short term. What i feel like doing is going home (I am out at the moment) and packing his stuff, wringing his bloody neck and kicking him out, but that's just a kneejerk reaction and I want to make sure I get it right.

Not sure it'll help me get him out but it makes me 100% sure that he is a lying scumbag! Which in a weird way makes me feel a lot better as I know I am doing the right thing. It also gives me something concrete to take to the solicitors when I decide to go. Just don't want to act on the spur of the moment.