Something's not right here...

[Onedaysoon]

I've had lots and lots of problems with H in the past; we split up for a while due to his controlling ways and general nastiness. He wore me down though and eventually I moved back in with the children.
He promised to make an effort, but to be honest nothing really changed, although he did tone down the abuse.
BUT...lately he's been spending an enormous amount of time and money on his mobile phone and is very secretive about it. For reasons I won't go into I have had suspicions about him for a while, so have been checking his phone (don't jump on me for that...I do have very good reasons for it), and discovered text messages from his mobile phone provider saying he was a VIP chat member. He is also topping his phone up EVERY night, by at least £10 per night, sometimes £20 per night, so is spending on average £70 per week - however we are in dire financial straits. He tops it up at 11.30 pm one night, 1.15 am another night...
I found another SIM card which he carries around with him and put it in my phone, and there were messages on there from presumably a woman, things like 'thanks, you're not bad yourself', and 'yes sorry but I'm up now and have to get ready for work'...nothing overtly flirtatious but still odd, not least because they are on a 'secret' SIM. he also has another mobile which he said he no longer uses, however he does becase he keeps that one in his car, it's always charged and he also tops that one up regularly.
We sleep separately so he can be on his phone all night; however, if I get up to go to the loo for instance I can guarantee that he will be on his phone but when I ask what he's doing he says he's playing games. I may well have believed him but for the fact that he has VIP membership to a chat room, and he's spending 10 - 20 pounds a night.
Now he's taken to keeping his phone on silent. The other morning I came down to find him asleep on the settee where he had had his phone on charge and fallen asleep in such a position that he could reach the phone whilst charging!
He's also always trying to get me and the kids out of the house; asking me to go to the shops for him, or 'do you want to go and get some fresh air for ten minutes' etc (I decline, and it was whilst I was away for the weekend a few weeks ago that he got these messages on his other phone...I said at the time that he was trying to push me into going away for that weekend!
Last night a message came through on his phone; it was on silent but the static on the pc gave it away...he said it was o2 saying his phone had been topped up, and that he had done it on his way home. However, I am with o2 also and whenever I top up the confirmation comes through immediately.
Sorry it's so long, but doesn't this all sound very suspect or am I being paranoid?
I can't confront him as the fallout of me 'snooping' on him would be catastrophic (there has been abuse in the past), and the marriage is over but I need concrete proof that he is messing about as, when I have asked him for a divorce in the past he has said that it's all my fault, or the kids' fault and has managed to make me feel that I am going mad!

But you know it's not in your head..I'm trying to be supportive, but I'm sorry, I'm not one for pussy-footing about. I do know some of your situation - I am in it myself. In a non-relationship where he spends most evenings on his many devices doing god knows what. That isnt a relationship. I understand!

One thing I forgot to add...a few weeks ago my sis was over for a holiday. She was talking to him about relationships and he told her, in front of me, that he will NEVER put 100% into our marriage (he's never told me that) and that I would always pay the price for him being mistreated by all the women in his life: his mother, his ex wife, his gf.

It's ok and sorry if I got a bit het up back there! But I really have tried. I have unplugged the tv so that he couldn't turn it on and ignore me and he just walks into another room and switches that one on too. He's like a brick wall.

I have to point out too...there is a world of difference between chat lines at 1.30 in the morning and Mumsnet!

I do get where you're coming from and I know it's hard. Part of you will desperately and continually undermine yourself for the sake of keeping the family unit together and the other part fantasises about a nice, hassle-free life, just you and the children..it's a very hard break to make.

yes, you're right - there is a difference, I was just making the point that you were both engaged in virtual stuff that didnt extend to your actual relationship if you get what I mean. Wasnt equating Mumsnet to oral porn or whatever!!

Yes it is. Extremely hard. I would love to be able to talk this through with him, but he won't allow it. if I wait til the kids are in bed and then try and talk he will say he's too tired and turn over in his bed (he doesn't share a bed with me) and yet at 1.30 am he is on his bloody phone.

I just hope you've got more guts than me and you do make that better life for yourself sooner rather than later, you deserve better.

Binkle...so do you. Good luck

onedaysoon-

i have just read the whole thread and my heart goes out to you.

i would urge you to concentrate on getting him out of your house BEFORE you start thinking about divorce,that can be sorted out later.

i know it takes all the strength and courage in the world but -look at the way you responded to binkle's first posts-you have no doubt in your mind whatsoever that this man is abusing and cheating on you.go to see a good solicitor,try and get an occupation order or whatever its called,then tell him he has to leave as he no longer has the legal right to be there.

when he tries to defend himself and twist things around,just refuse point blank to listen to any more of his BS and keep telling him you want him out no matter what he says.

i doubt he could spend that amount of credit on WAP chatrooms-i used to go on them all the time and be texting loads of people as well and never put more than £10 a week on my phone.he could be using 'adult' chatrooms that you have to subscribe to,or those text mates type services.either way,he sounds like a total prick.

my exh was abusive.he hit me once but most of the time it was emotional.he was a gambling addict and he got me into alot of debt.then after our ds was born he started watching porn on sky every night.he denied it of course,even when i got banks charges due to him setting up a direct debit with some porn channel.i finally confronted him when i got the bill for these films through the door.it was in his name.i told him i'd been to a solicitor and a court order was going through,and i was either going to a safe house for 2 weeks untill he was forcibly removed,or he could eff off and sign the house over to me there and then.

he went.

if i can do it,so can you

Hi Divastrop. It's interesting about the WAP chatrooms. I do know for sure he uses them (though which ones I'm not sure) as he had a text stating he had been upgraded to VIP membership to text chat. One of them charges £1.50 per text to send or receive; can't remember which.
I did try to get an occupation order a while back. the solicitor said that they wouldn't grant one as the latest 'serious' happening had been a couple of weeks previous and the courts would say that if it was that bad why didn't I apply immediately it happened? I'm not alone in thinking this guy was just a trainee or something am I?
Anyway, the only way I can get him out is to file for divorce and let the courts make him move. However, in the meantime I have to continue living here with him which is when the mind games will come into play. I know for a fact that he wouldn't move out until he was absolutely made to do so as we've been here before.

I'm guessing he is also downloading porn. One of the messages (a push message it said) simply had the words 'Hot oriental' on it. Doesn't sound like the local takeaway does it?

I too have just read back from the beginning, and I agree as hard as it is, you need him out of your life.
You don't appear to have confronted him with any of this though? Surely that would be the first step.

I'm sorry to butt in but have been reading this thread and made me so sad. My sister has just come out of a relationship like this - her husband emotionally abused her for years and she was left belittled, humiliated and degraded. Just because he doesn't punch you doesn't mean it isn't serious, as you know. She used to wish he would punch her just to lessen the tension and so people could physically see how much she was hurting. She finally left him last year and has just blossomed - even though it seemed impossible for her she is so much stronger on her own, and has got so much more done with her life. Please leave him. Don't wait for 'proof' you have enough. Go to CAB find a decent lawyer and get that bastard out before he does anymore damage to you. It's NOT you, he will try to mess with your head but hang on to the fact that that's just how these men work.
sorry for rant and for saying things other people have said x

Onedaysoon - I'm so sorry about your situation, and it is a complicated one. One thing comes clear through reading all the postings - you don't want to be with him anymore, you need to move on and you don't have the confidence to do this. I think that's why you're looking for reasons with the phone and internet stuff. You don't have the confidence because he has taken that from you.

Ring the police station and speak to the domestic abuse person, or call women's aid. Take it one day at a time. YOU are allowed to make decisions about your life, you don't need to have permission or an excuse to do this. Remember that. Will you call them and speak to someone? They'll help you.

Yes call the domestic abuse people at police. They are very good and understanding.

You don't need to have a reason or proof, don't worry about that. Ring them, explain your history, explain that you're unhappy and that he's manipulating you emotionally. Ask their advice.
Please?

Reading this is like reading about my marriage (hands STILL sweating). There is something extremely sick about these people and, imo, it is always good to actually physically get out of their orbit, bcs there's something mind-boggling that goes on when you're around them. You're in the unenviable position of knowing full well that he is sick, but still being under his influence. nightmare . I found that going away for a week (or even a w/e) literally removed me from his orbit and the power that seemed to emanate from him, which jammed my brain. (I know, that sounds almost sci-fi doesn't it? Well, that's how it was - if you've been there you know what I mean.) I finally left him when I looked after someone's house for two weeks while they were away. That was all it took to get my mind back. What these frightening abusers do is a kind of mind-control, which they have set up well in advance when you loved them eg "all the women in my life have been evil to me". And bcs you love them you swear you will love them properly 'this time' and won't repeat what those 'awful women' did. Chances are those women weren't awful at all. It must encourage you (on a grim level) that he is capable of putting a woman and his kids in a refuge. YOu at least know his behaviour is consistent.

I found it very helpful when I found info on narcisstic personality disorder. You may find the info there quite helpful.

I completely relate to you trying everything under the sun. I did, and the whole thing just steamed on like a train, never fluctuating, never changing - it didn't make a blind bit of difference (and I am very resourceful). It does make you despair. Trying to work out what he's up to is a headfuck, bcs it pulls you into his sick world. The best thing to concentrate on is YOU, what you want, what you deserve, what you don't want - for you or the kids. Hve you had a look at the womens aid website yet? Don't think they won't understand, bcs they certainly do.

Maybe you are addicted to him (there is a very powerful addictive element to these relationships). I'm not saying you are consciously or willingly addicted, but breaking the addiction is half the battle. When I left my husband I literally shook, couldn't sleep etc, as though I was coming off some drug. I asked my current counsellor if it was possible to be addicted to a person - she said she'd never heard of it (DUH!)

Matilda...you said they just pull you into their sick world - that's it EXACTLY! That's why I hated the whole looking through his phone thing and trying to figure him out. Basically I have no desire to get into his head as it's such a messed up, nasty place to be. I've decided not to snoop anymore as it's just lowering me to his level.

Ahundredtimes: I am going to contact the police station on Monday and try and find out the name of the officer who I spoke to the other evening. He was here that night months ago, and knows the story and how bad I was that night and I'm going to see if I can tell him the rest of the story and see what he says.

In the meantime I am going to rise above it, restore my dignity and carry on with making mental plans!

Well done onedaysoon. Make the plans, take it a day at a time, and remember you are allowed to make these plans and nobody is going to question you ringing them and asking for advice. If you don't find the policeman you talked to, remember to ask about the domestic abuse person. It's what they are there for! Sitting now, waiting for your call.

Onedaysoon, just popped back to see how you're doing hunny. Sounds like a good plan, but also there was good info about womens aid. If you get a chance, why don't you ring them & just have a chat, it might help clarify your thinking, and I expect they would be available over the w/e. Let us know how it goes, thinking of you ((()))

Onedaysoon - you sound very brave and special and should be proud of yourself. I bet you are a great Mum and will be a strong person once you've got rid of that horrid man of yours. Best of luck, am sending good vibes xxx

that line about the other women in their lives treating them like crap is soooo typical of an abusive man.in fact,i think they all read from the same script.

So true divastrop! It was uncanny how when new women would arrive at the support group I mentioned earlier, in an absolute state, and the story would pour out. We all knew what was coming next, bcs it was EXACTLY THE SAME as we'd all experienced. Slightly different circumstances etc, but the same story, down to the finest detail. Work THAT one out!

Hi EllieG, thanks for that vote of confidence!
Well, today he's been out twice already; first to buy a mirror (!) so urgent on a Sunday morning and he was gone over 2 hours (it's only 5 miles down the road), and now he's gone again; this time to Homebase. Usually it's impossible to get him to move from the settee. He came in from his first shopping trip and made a song and dance about how his phone was out of charge (again) and put it on charge, and then 5 minutes later he decides he HAS to go to Homebase and takes his phone with him again despite it apparently having no charge.
I know I said I wouldn't check anymore but I did and yesterday he topped up with £20 about 2 minutes after I took the kids to the shop and this morning he had spent £7 of that. Now I didn't go to bed til 11.30pm, and he didn't get up til 8.30 this morning so in that time he used £7. I use my phone a lot, but I only spend at most £20 per month on mine.
Also, at 9.30 pm there was a missed call from a woman (he has his phone on silent) who he used to work with and who he spent the weekend with a few months ago claiming it was all innocent. This is also the woman who he sent a text to telling her he had had the snip so 'sorry but we won't be able to have a baby together after all, lol'. His lol, not mine. I don't find it funny at all.