DH having rages - advice please?

[bonitabonita]

I want to tell you a situation that happened last night and hear your opinion on it, if you could be so kind. I have NC for this but have posted about my marriage before and the advice I've received has been incredibly helpful. I really apologise for the length - I want to give factual account, not 'my' version.

I am the main earner and have done over 60hours a week for the last 10 weeks due to a staff illness so am very tired. I am also having other problems - someone crashed into me and wrote my car off, we are on a spring water supply that has dried up so we are having to carry a lot of water around, my pet has been unwell and needed daily treatment, lots on with DC at end of school year etc. We've got a lot on.

I am taking DC away Tues - Sat for a break in London, DH has to work as he is on fixed holidays - I am self employed. Yesterday DD wanted to watch Coco. I agreed it looked great, we all did. I was working 8-6.30pm today, during the day DS14 did a lot of chores - hoovered whole house, swept and steam mopped kitchen, changed his bed, cleaned his room, emptied all the bins, sorted recycling loads more. DD12 had a sports event came home and made dinner - a Thai curry and stirfry. DH was pottering in the garden all day so when I got home I sorted the washing, changed the beds put everything in the kitchen away etc.

When I came down DC has organised everything and even poured me a glass of wine and put it where I like to sit (I drink maybe 2x per week 1/2 glasses wine). Food ready, film on, everyone happy. If you know the film, you'll know the bit I mean, but about 45 mins in a character appears and I said "oooooo look, do you know who that is meant to be?"

DC "No"
Me "It's Frieda Kahlo"
DH "It might not be based on her"
Me "I think it is"
DH "You think you know everything"
Me speechless

3 mins later

DS "It is Frieda Kahlo"
Me "I thought it was, she's very famous. I don't know anything about her art thou." at this point I could see DH glaring at me and said "Sorry" quietly
DH "I said you knew everything, you make me feel like shit, I feel like shit"
DH Storms out to his greenhouse for 45 minutes.

DC upset and cross with me saying "why did you say that"
me "what"
"That you thought it was her, you should just be quiet"
"why?"
then look confused "don't know"

Eventually I went out to try and find out what was going on. I was totally calm but confused. As I walked over he said "for gods sake" and slammed the shed door in my face. I knocked and said "what are you doing, please can we watch the film with the kids and we can talk later if you're upset"
DH "Fuck off"
Me "stop being horrible, I haven't done anything wrong"
DH "leave me alone, you always follow me and make me feel like shit, stop fucking hassling me, leave me alone"
At this point I was really frustrated "Fine, stay out here. But unless you come in, apologise and watch the film I am locking up at 9 and you can stay out her"
DH "fuck off and stop calling me names fuck off, go back to mainlining wine. Power drink your wine" (I had had maybe 1/2 glass of wine by this point and had certainly not called him names)

So I went in and after 30 minutes he comes in, watches the rest of the film and ignores me. DC went to bed and he refused to discuss it, sat with his head in his hands for over an hour.

This morning he slept until 10 then came outside to where I was feeding our pet and stood staring at me.

Me "what was all that about last night"
DH "I don't know"
Me "It was ridiculous. I want you to think about why you became so angry, it doesn't make sense"
DH "you wind me up"
Me "no, I didn't"
DH "you do wind me up deliberately and you wont shut up you go on and on being right all the time, you alway have to be right"
Me "that's not true. I get things wrong all the time. Remember during the England match when I said there were 13 men on a football team and you all took the piss of me and I thought it was really funny. I am happy to admit when I am wrong"
DH "You're always right aren't you"
Me "no, but I don't blame the person who is right when I am wrong, I am glad they have taught me something. What do you want? Last night the children said I shouldn't have said anything, I should never say anything. Is that what you want? To be like your dad"
DH angry "don't mention him!"
me "well watch out, you mother sits there in silence when he says ludicrous things, we don't see him, think what you want. I want to be told when I sound ridiculous or am wrong and I will not live with someone who behaves like you did last night"
DH "leave me alone"

He went out then and I am sat here wondering what the hell is going on. His mother is an alcoholic and his father has an extremely controlling personality. DH had an extremely unhappy childhood - alcoholism and violence.

I know that I am an annoying person. I am 'chatty' and have a very open relationship with DC so we talk about things DH would probably rather not listen to - news topics, injustice, books we read, films dissecting the plot - DH has been known to say this 'ruins' things, but can't explain why.

I just feel confused by it all. Sorry it is so long, advice much appreciated on what is going on, what I am doing to rile him so much. I am very tired and realise I am an irritating person, but why storm out and spoil the DC evening after they've been so kind/worked so hard? It seems so petty and immature.

Sorry it is so long - I wanted to give verbatim so it wasn't 'my' account. Thanks for any advice you can give. My head hurts thinking about it.

His rages are irrational and not based on the facts before him. He needs counselling. Probably on his own for a while and then maybe to couples counselling.
There’s no way you should be seen by DC to be “shutting up” just to keep the peace. That is an appalling lesson for your sons.
If e won’t have counselling/his shitty behaviour continues then I think I’d be asking him to move out for a while

Well you seem happier op, like a pp I'm concerned he has seen the posts... there's only so long someone can pretend to be nice

Bonita I really do hope that he has turned a corner and that this can be a new beginning for you both. However, like other posters I think you need to be cautious and just keep your wits about you a little bit. Doesn’t mean that you have to walk the second that he’s in even the slightest bad mood, but you should ask yourself whether he really has improved or whether this feels like an ‘act’ that’s going to have to slip sooner or later.

I thought my ex and I had turned a corner after I took him to a family wedding which, to cut a long story short, he totally ruined for me. He realised that he had gone too far this time and, most tellingly, that other people had also clearly picked up on his behaviour. He was incredibly sorry and remorseful, and for about 3 days afterwards he was the most wonderful partner. Well... I say that, but I think that just shows how warped my perceptions were. Really he was probably just showing a basic level of courtesy and decency!

It’s so tiny and insignificant but I always vividly remember this one moment during those three days where we were walking down the street together and he accidentally stepped on a loose paving stone which flipped up on my side and tripped me up a little. He immediately said ‘oh gosh I’m so sorry about that, are you ok?’ and I was so taken aback because that just wasn’t like him. The ‘old’ him would have just said ‘that was not my fault, don’t you dare blame me for that, and watch where you’re going!’ So I was so surprised at his change in attitude and absolutely thrilled. How sad is that? I was over the moon because he apologised for accidentally tripping me up like any normal person would!

Anyway... the point is that it didn’t last. He couldn’t keep it up for more than a few days. I can’t remember what it was that eventually set him off again, but it was something stupid and trivial and suddenly he was back to being pissed off and angry and constantly irritated with me. So just tread carefully and don’t let yourself be sucked in to thinking that everything’s ‘fine’ now because he manages to bite his tongue for a few days.

Wow, I read your thread.
Every time I jumped to post my thoughts on your problem , I saw that you had already seen them !
notably your DC telling you not to say anything to pacify, is blood curdling.
I have a similar situation to you. I realise H's complexes are due to his lack of self confidence. he is not as educated, he is jealous.
I cannot live as an equal. He will always belittle. He will manoeuvre an argument, or criticise or dominate.
He has alienated DS, (jealousy) his father must play Alpha male. how else can he dominate?
He doesn't go anywhere, but hates that I/We do.

So many parallels. I feel your disquiet.
As for a solution ? There is no happy one. He is not happy that you are clever, are successful, that you put your family first.

& I doubt he will keep up his best behaviour for long.

Please don’t let him go on holiday with you. Do you really want to spoil it for you and your lovely children. To have to watch those little faces crumble when he kicks off again.
STBXH was the only miserable bastard in Disneyland!! That takes some doing, but guess what he managed it! Please don’t let him put this negative drain on your holiday

I think it’s possible with therapy to build a healthier relationship together- I wish you and your family luck moving forward.

Whilst it might be helpful keeping in mind that things could change for the worse again soon, I am not sure why so many people are adamant that the OP should leave her husband...I honestly think it is possible for him to become a more considerate and caring person towards her. And that his attempts to make a better situation could be genuine. Why wouldn’t he want a happy family life too? Why is MN always so LTB ?

Five I recommend LTB when I read about other people suffering at the hands of someone. I don't know the OP but I feel so sorry for her children modifying their behaviour for fear of setting their father off. He is a bullying thug.

I could honestly cry for them and they sound so lovely.

His behaviour has been abusive for years. His arrogance and cruelty is longstanding and he hasn't tried to change. Why should his family put up with him?

Those children should live a life where they don't have to tip toe around that bully. They are being damaged by him. Nobody should stay in a relationship where kids are being damaged.

Not every situation is as damaging and people don't always have to leave. Obviously there are times people can work it out.

Those kids are suffering at his hands.

When I say LTB I mean that he leaves and OP and the children live in their home in peace.

We had a quiet day yesterday, Sunday lunch at the pub and then watched a comedy. He has been incredibly calm and good company. I am just going to remain pragmatic and wait and see.

He’s been talking about plans for the future which he hasn’t done for years and he bought a birthday card for someone and sent it which He has never done before. Time will tell I suppose.

You're more intelligent than him and it pisses him off. I've been there. He's acting like a twat.

Deep down he hates you and resents you for reasons that other posters have pointed out. Even on his best behaviour those feelings will never go away. He will learn to suppress them.

I don't know if i could be in that sort of relationship. It feels dishonest and almost sinister.

Good to take each day and each moment as it comes op.

No need for any rash decisions.

Long may it last.
The thing is, if he wants to "behave", he can. Doesn't that say anything to you ?
This is unlikely to last for long, it is part of the abusive cycle; You went off for a week with minimum contact, he can see you are distancing yourself, he knows he needs to stop behaving badly, if not one day you will turn round & simply say "Just how long do you think I am going to put up with this ?"
The point of no return

It's part of the cycle, Bonita. He's hoovering you back in. You could go on like this for decades. He will probably stretch the boundaries further and further, until one day you'll realise looking back that it's always been there and you need to get out for your own safety.

If you haven't already, please speak to someone at Women's Aid.

We are very, very good at minimising bad behaviour.

Years and years ago I posted on MN about the state of my marriage. It took a very long time to get out and see it for what it was.

For you sanity's sake you absolutely have to stop reasoning, arguing and debating with him . You are right and what you are saying js backed by facts but people like him will never ever give in

Me "that's not true. I get things wrong all the time. Remember during the England match when I said there were 13 men on a football team and you all took the piss of me and I thought it was really funny. I am happy to admit when I am wrong"

do not engage with him .
It is feeding him .
If he accuses you of claiming to be right all the time , say yes I do . Whatever he accuses you of do not deny , negate , reason , defend - you will drive yourself insane and get nowhere and he will get even worse . You will feel a load lifted of your shoulders once you realise you do not have to answer to him . It takes years of self training to get to this point and it's not always a journey worth making .

it's not always a journey worth making . indeed

At the very least it shows that he can control his rages when he wants to.....

So he does know how to be a decent husband, he just hasn't bothered to be.

Your dc worked hard yesterday, you worked hard, your dh dicked about in the garden and had the cheek to complain that the dc didn''t fetch him a fucking drink?

Dick.

The way he spoke to you and tried to shut you down? Dick.

The message this is giving your dc? Terrible.

You are not responsible for him. You can't change him. Only he can do this. Sounds like his bad behaviour has been long-term if it was happening at Christmas. Sounds exhausting. What does HE do for YOU??

I'd go away without him and think long and hard abnout your marriage - whether you want to stay in it.

Please don't let him go on holiday with you. Not this one special, once in a life time holiday. He has seen you return glowing from a short time away, built up and 'free'. Behaviour like his is almost compulsive, and despite his reassurances he might find that all his 'stuff' is triggered, and he'll be off on one (convinced you made him react), ruining what should be an amazing time. Remember, it'll only take ONE huff, one glowering look, one snide remark or aggressive outburst, and you'll be right back in the hell of it. If you let him come, the time leading up to the trip will not be one of joyous preparation for you and your DC, but rather a time of nervous anticipation of what might push him over the edge. As will each day while you are away.
Give yourself this gift. Much love to you.

*I was working 8-6.30pm today, during the day DS14 did a lot of chores - hoovered whole house, swept and steam mopped kitchen, changed his bed, cleaned his room, emptied all the bins, sorted recycling loads more. DD12 had a sports event came home and made dinner - a Thai curry and stirfry. DH was pottering in the garden all day so when I got home I sorted the washing, changed the beds put everything in the kitchen away etc.

DC upset and cross with me saying "why did you say that"
me "what"
"That you thought it was her, you should just be quiet"
"why?"
then look confused "don't know"

He sent me a text at work yesterday telling me neither of the dc had brought him a drink and snack out whilst he was ‘working hard in the garden’.*

Perhaps it's just me but these stood out - it sounds like he's an abuser who's got you all pandering to him.

You're the main earner, the DCs are doing work he should be doing, sounds like you're all running around trying to avoid his next outburst/huff (which you won't cause he'll find any pretext) ... seems like he's an abuser (on top of feeling shitty about himself but being unable/unwilling to do anything about that).

You were all right. I feel incredibly sad and cross with myself for half falling for the bullshit. I am exhausted again, utterly drained, he saps all my energy.

Oh no. What happened?

None of us wanted to be right.