Infidelity

[SarahJop22]

I know I'm probably being controversial here and I am not setting out to offend/annoy anyone.

I just wanted to say that I'm a bit taken aback about by the vitriol towards anyone who comes on here looking for advice if they have strayed (sometimes even slightly) from their marriage/partnership.

I am in a very LTR with children and I love my partner but ...(cliche I know) we had started growing apart and our lives became revolved around housework/kids. I was feeling low and unattractive and I behaved out of character; I did not have a full blown affair but I did get very close to a colleague and although very little happened physically (we kissed once on a night out), I know I crossed the line. It's a bit textbook really, we started out as friends and it started to develop into something else. I never met him outside of work or anything other than on work nights out but we had lunch together in work almost daily.

I realised things were escalating after the last night out and I tried to stop it but he was persistent and I ended up developing feelings for him (not love, more like a crush/mild infatuation) to the point where I am now leaving my job.

I know how wrong this has all been and I regret ever setting eyes on the man but it has made me realise how easily these things happen. I love my partner but I obviously missed the intensity and passion of our relationship which I am trying to get back with him. I confessed everything to him and he has been very understanding and we are now working on getting the spark and appreciation back into our relationship. He is spending less time on his computer and more time with me. I know how lucky this makes me. I have been given another chance.

We are all human, we want to be loved and desired, we want to feel like we matter to someone. If 20% of people have full blown affairs and many more have 'emotional' affairs (whatever that means!), they can't all be twats.

People make mistakes. They can't help what they feel. I read resposes of LTB all the time on here because someone has 'crossed the line' and I just think that people are so judgmental sometimes. None of us are infallible, we all just human. Monogamy is a social construct at the end of the day and if people sometimes fail to meet the demands of ideals they are vilified and slated. It is particularly sad when someone comes on here looking for advice because they have made a mistake (which they often feel terrible about) but are faced with horrible responses telling them how shit they are.

What about compassion? They haven't murdered anyone!

I appreciate this may not 'toe the mumsnet line' but I just thought I'd put it out there.

Because when you’re behind a keyboard you can be a holier than thou judgemental bastard and there’s no come back.

Well known fact that insecure people will berate others to make themselves feel better. Grammar nazis are the usual culprits.

Lots of people here do indeed think thy have been blessed with the power to be judge, jury and executioner.

You’re right, it seems as though every post I read the generic advice is to leave the relationship . Sometimes I understand when I see people talk about their partners being nasty and abusive, I think that leaving is right step. However I have seen a lot posts regarding situations where it would be possible to work through, being told to just leave. In reality I think it’s easier said than done. I myself have written a few posts regarding my relationship in the past, in majority of them I was told to leave my partner although it’s because we were arguing going through a stressful time. I think the advice people dish out is easy to say but hard to follow. I myself have been guilty telling my friends in the past that it’s best for them to leave a relationship when I’m reality I would find it very difficult to just go

Op, yours sounds exactly the same scenario as the grenade DH has very recently thrown into our relationship. In our case, it came about because he worked away for 4/5 years and we only had 2 days a week as a couple. We grew apart, massively but it wasn't just him, it was my fault too - I was happy to be left alone Mon-Fri and I even got irritated by the phone calls from him in the evening (they were really crappy though and only happened because they 'ought to', rather than us wanting them, tbf). Everything suffered for those years.

I don't think I noticed the downward spiral - I trusted him completely and wouldn't have dreamt that 10 years down the line he would pursue someone else, but he did although it apparently never became a full blown affair. It shocked me to the core. It's nearly broken us but we're getting better and he no longer works away. He's knackered, doing all the travelling, but that's the way it has to be, now, and it's 100 times better for it. We're reconnected and sharing our lives again; it's nice. He's doing all the right things and we're back to how we used to be. Long may that continue although I can't say I'm not watching him and forever will be, I suspect.

So, we got a massive kick up the arse but we needed it, albeit I would have preferred it to be by other means. I would never have left him on the guidance of a number of internet strangers...

I have to say though, it's hard reading through the threads on infidelity on MN when you're going through it. If you don't know what to do, advice to other people (generally LTB because he'll never change) can really set you in a spin and it's not always helpful.

I don't think it's a question of toeing any line, it's simply that there are so many people here who have been the victim of an affair that it's bound to stir feelings. I always try to remain neutral and give advice and support but I wont deny I have to suppress feelings of anger and panic at times. Unless you've been in the shoes of someone that has been cheated on it's hard to understand the feelings that infidelity bring up. It was by far the most hurtful and damaging thing that has ever happened to me and it took a long time to get over.

Having said that I was in exactly the same place as you 25 years ago. I had an emotional affair that began to pull me away from my marriage and I had to leave my job to end it. And I rationalised it to my own satisfaction too. Then 6 years ago DH had his affair and I guess you could call that just deserts.

Of course in neither case were we as bad as murderers but that is besides the point. We did something hurtful for our gratification. I don't think that berating helps anyone but it is useful sometimes to see things from the view point of other people to really see how harmful your actions can be.

Tatty I tend to agree with you. I found out about my husband’s affair 8 months ago. I was beyond shocked and traumatised. The advice on here... LTB, Have some self respect etc etc. It was awful especially right in the midst of the single worst thing to ever happen to me. Completely unhelpful. It almost felt like people were kicking me when I was down rather than offering support.

I actually resorted to looking (and taking advice) from some very old threads where the general tone was much more measured.

That being said, the recent spate of threads from OW have got my back up and I’ve struggled not to comment on them.

LTB, you are naive, what a bastard, he was exploiting the OW, etc etc. Very hurtful and damaging in the immediate aftermath of DDay.

Sarah i agree many here shout "LTB" whenever they read a post of infidelity. There are many who don't. Not all write posts. Anyway it is dangerous to apply one rule for all. It is true that we all make mistakes and we are all humans. It is also true that there are cases where the betrayed lack a total respect of the betrayed party. It is clearly NOT your case. I am sure that most users here would laud you: you had strong boundaries in place and you activated them as soon as you saw that they were threatened; moreover you were honest and disclosed everything to your partner before the situation engulfed you; and if it is not ebough: you are willing to quit the job...you acted nobly despite the first little misguided steps; these steps you are now hiding them to better your relationship...
I agree with you that compassion is what we all need. There are cases where the compassion must go to the betrayed family and help them LTB....life is tough. It puts us sometimes into dilemmas where no matter what we do we are bound to hurt s.o. ..I wish my OH knew how to put boundaries in place when stalked by the OW (all documented). I knew her. Both me and OH used to have a lot of compassion for her. UsED to. Not anymore. I do pity her however. Too complicated to give details here. Anyway I want to tell you: I admire your strength of character...I like flirting but i always avoided this kind of trap (despite opportunities) because I was afraid of being too weak to escape in time. ..i also admire that you are using this confusing episod to develope compassion ....

I think maybe it depends on what experiences you've had around cheating. For me my father cheated on my mother and the I was one of the main people left trying to put my mother back together again afterwards, it's hard to not be judgmental when you've seen the complete devastation it can cause in peoples lives I guess

Instead of hiding read using.

Thing is surely everyone is just giving input from their perspective. For me your behaviour would be an absolute deal breaker - any relationship I was in where that happened would be over, absolutely no question. I’ve never said LTB to a poster - but when people come onto a forum then getting a realistic reply shouldn’t be unexpected. If people want an ‘it’s alright hun, you’ll survive it’ they should probably shuffle off to Nethuns >>

trinity we are instructed to love others as ourselves -NOT more..you are right in your case that you and your mum needed more compassion than your father...I don't know the story...however if the betrayer has shown sincere remorse and is willing to atone for his mistakes by improving his behavior and the original relatuonship- thenthe betrayer clearly deserves compassion and second chance...but I understand that in your case you have been traumatised by what happened to your mum (i don't want to judge her but it would have been good if she could have protected you a bit...but that just shows how deeply hurt she was...) and for you the LTB might sound right in many cases but we should refrain from doing so because there are too many little nuances-details and essntial parameters that only the betrayed person know ...Anyway I hope you are now in a better place..

Thank you for your replies. I wasn't expecting and understanding response! I thought I was going to get slated!

Cambs - Yep, there is definitely that. Grammar nazis are rife in the Guardian comments! Intellectual snobbery I think!

Catherine - That's exactly it - all relationships go through tough times and nobody is perfect. The ‘LTB brigade’ love it. Really doesn't help people who want genuine advice on how to improve things in what otherwise might be a good relationship.

Irian – It sounds like you both have dealt with things with understanding and maturity. I’m glad you have both moved on from it all. It can be done and I think that (sometimes) it can make you work harder and appreciate your partner again. Although I (don’t think) I have ever been betrayed by a partner and I am sure it is devastating I like to think I would do what you have done and try and work through it but I suppose we all have limits. You’re right of course, it is traumatic and I am not trying to down play my actions at all. It is good for people to hear that they have fucked up and need to sort themselves out but not by relentless LTB posts. I hope you continue to work through it all.

Lucky - Yes I've noticed the absolute intolerance for anything fidelity related has increased on here. You're right, it's not helpful. People who are looking for advice know that LTB is an option and don't need telling. They want understanding and support not being told how pathetic they are for staying. OW posts can be insensitive that’s for sure.

Tatty - It sounds like you've made it through the worst of it although it must have been horrendous. I suppose the time away created an emotional distance that left you both vulnerable. It's sad but you both recognised the problem and fixed it. I'm glad things have worked out for you and I hope the underlying suspicion from you (totally understandable) fades over time as you both grow stronger together.

Kids – Thank you for your understanding. I was an idiot not to have got out of my situation earlier and I realise that now. We can only do our best to put things right. You sound like a very compassionate person and I don’t know what happened with you and the OW but I hope it all worked out well in the end.

Trinity – That’s a lot to deal with. I can see why this would be a difficult issue for you. I’m sorry if I am coming across as flippant. I am absolutely not.

Chips – I never for one second would expect people to condone infidelity (of the heart or otherwise). I just think that your approach is sometimes detrimental to good relationships that have gone awry and just need time and effort to get back on track. People who seek advice because they know they’re done wrong should not be subject to abuse for their failings. There are usually reasons why these things happen. If it is a deal breaker for you, that’s fair enough but it’s not the case for everyone. Couples can and do move forward and can be stronger for it.

sara very nice post indeed. You took time to carefully read each response and to thoughtfully answer to it. Thank you for the compliment however:
1- I was far from.compassionate the first days/months and maybe years after Disclosure Day. (The consequences of the affair are here to stay with us forever...)
2- I still have my "f**ck them all" moments
3- I do set boundaries to my compassion (and try to make my silly/foolish husband set them )
4- I do believe that sometimes it is better to be a bit cruel less compassionate to protect yourself and those close to you
So the OW and the affair taught me that although we all need and deserve compassion, intimate/close relationships need safe boundaries against less fortunate others even and maybe especially when their emotions don't stop calling on your compassion ...anyway i am glad you and your oartner are able to save your relationship from the devastation of betrayal...good luck and please make your relationship a safe heaven where both of you together and each of you as individual can blossom ...strong loving relationships that overcome the frailty of our human conditions make our society better and more compassionate

I love this thread. It's so much more positive than all the 'LTBs' we normally see. Although I suppose some people are posting when discovery has only just occurred so everything is so raw, hence the frequent knee-jerk reactions.

I started writing (to myself) after DDay and whilst it's a complete jumble of thoughts and an outpouring of awful, awful emotions, I no longer feel them when I re-read it - my ramblings are definitely more coherent now, and more balanced although I do still have 'moments' all too frequently.

If I'd started a thread at the point I was writing my journal, I expect it would have been full of 'LTB', and rightly so because my anger was extreme and I was truly unstable for a few weeks - I couldn't function and that would have come across in any posts. I'm glad I stayed to work it out because we're in a much better place and IF he ever strays in the future (emotionally or otherwise), well, I've done my crying and angst - all I will need to do is pack a bag.

Tatty how long post D-day are you? I always look to others for hope and guidance. I long to get to the day when the future seems more certain and secure rather than just moving forward in blind hope (if that makes sense?) so back to the feeling of us being more of a certainty than a gamble.

I completely disagree. You say it's easy for these things to happen. No. It's not. I disagree. It's not easy.

The vitriol is often tame.
You yourself had many many opportunities, many times you could have made different choices.
But you chose not to.
Take responsibility for your actions and choices.

I have never made the choices you did. I find being faithful very easy indeed.

Oblomov - You have every right to disagree but that doesn't give you the ultimate moral high ground.

I do take responsibility for my actions which is exactly why I confessed everything to my partner, giving him the right to choose whether we could get past it or not. I am also leaving a job I love. My fault, my problem.

My partner chose for us to move on and I am eternally grateful for that. I will never make the same mistake again.

Well done to you for never stepping a foot wrong. It must be good to be perfect.

Kids - strong loving relationships that overcome the frailty of our human conditions make our society better and more compassionate.

Exactly that. Thank you.

I agree Op, I was ‘never the type to have an affair’ until I did.
Well I was single, naive and young (22) and an idiot, he was married.
My friends all stuck by me, gave me advice, picked me up the other side of it and are still my friends now.
I wouldn’t dare have asked for advice on here about it.

Hmm, I always think the advice given on here is a useful counterpoint to what may be real-life pressure to accept infidelity. Friends and family are usually invested in the status quote, they want couples to stay together because people generally don't like the balance of their lives disturbed. So I think it's quite important to have someone say, actually you don't have to put up with this, you don't have to sweep it under the carpet, it's the betrayer who's at fault and who has to fix things.

Status quo, fecking autocorrect.

Sarah, your case differs from so many who post on here in that you recognised the problems, fessed up and admitted culpability.

Where a lot of the LTB vitriol comes in is that so many of the betraying partners never admit, and if they do it’s under duress. And many of us (and yes I am speaking from the POV of a betrayed spouse) never ever get the full picture, proper closure, decent behaviour or a partner who is truly sorry.

I have had to fight constantly, and dig, dig, dig for evidence that my husband was unfaithful. He had emotional affairs and then a full on physical relationship with another woman for almost 4 years. He would never admitted the truth voluntarily. I think it’s a different case to yours.

I wish you well in your onward journey with your husband.

I think it’s because often the posters who advise LTB have tried to perhaps work on relationships with their ex who consequently cheated again . The forum is literally littered with these examples so they are just trying to simply save someone else further heart ache by perhaps being blunt and to the point.

From a personal point of view , I would never cheat , loyalty is not a option in my view , I’m not trying to say I’m perfect because I certainly have my faults but loyalty is one of the areas that I believe should not in any circumstances be broken. I think some people find this easier then others. There’s research on this that indicates monogamy is in your genetic makeup which I’m inclined to wholeheartedly agree with. It explains why the majority of people who cheat , do it again and again.

I have to also say , that you’re receiving a rather gentle response , if it was a male who posted this then there would be an absolute riot on this thread .

I think you are indeed very lucky that your partner has agreed to work past this with you.

Also when you say “they haven’t murdered anyone” a family friend of mine found out that his wife had cheated on him, he killed himself the week after finding out.

Actions have consequences .