Infidelity

[SarahJop22]

I know I'm probably being controversial here and I am not setting out to offend/annoy anyone.

I just wanted to say that I'm a bit taken aback about by the vitriol towards anyone who comes on here looking for advice if they have strayed (sometimes even slightly) from their marriage/partnership.

I am in a very LTR with children and I love my partner but ...(cliche I know) we had started growing apart and our lives became revolved around housework/kids. I was feeling low and unattractive and I behaved out of character; I did not have a full blown affair but I did get very close to a colleague and although very little happened physically (we kissed once on a night out), I know I crossed the line. It's a bit textbook really, we started out as friends and it started to develop into something else. I never met him outside of work or anything other than on work nights out but we had lunch together in work almost daily.

I realised things were escalating after the last night out and I tried to stop it but he was persistent and I ended up developing feelings for him (not love, more like a crush/mild infatuation) to the point where I am now leaving my job.

I know how wrong this has all been and I regret ever setting eyes on the man but it has made me realise how easily these things happen. I love my partner but I obviously missed the intensity and passion of our relationship which I am trying to get back with him. I confessed everything to him and he has been very understanding and we are now working on getting the spark and appreciation back into our relationship. He is spending less time on his computer and more time with me. I know how lucky this makes me. I have been given another chance.

We are all human, we want to be loved and desired, we want to feel like we matter to someone. If 20% of people have full blown affairs and many more have 'emotional' affairs (whatever that means!), they can't all be twats.

People make mistakes. They can't help what they feel. I read resposes of LTB all the time on here because someone has 'crossed the line' and I just think that people are so judgmental sometimes. None of us are infallible, we all just human. Monogamy is a social construct at the end of the day and if people sometimes fail to meet the demands of ideals they are vilified and slated. It is particularly sad when someone comes on here looking for advice because they have made a mistake (which they often feel terrible about) but are faced with horrible responses telling them how shit they are.

What about compassion? They haven't murdered anyone!

I appreciate this may not 'toe the mumsnet line' but I just thought I'd put it out there.

Also when you say * Content, mentally healthy people don’t kill themselves * how many people can say yes I’m content after being cheated on? A lot of betrayed spouses advise they have to get counselling and have antidepressants just to get through the day after finding out , so yes it impacts on their mental health too. Ffs can’t you grasp that?

Also the family friend dod actually write a note if you absolutely must fucking know ! He basically said that without his family he had nothing to live for . The cheating wife , left him to move straight in with her affair partner , upped and took the kids to the other side of country .

The threads where I've said "leave" have been ones where it isn't some "one off" or "just a kiss" and there is no remorse. They are posts where it is clear that the cheater is not at all sorry (just sorry they got caught!) or they have been lying to the OP for months, or done the same thing already in the past. It's not on the basis of a single episode, admitted and wanting to put everything into fixing things. There are a lot of posts on here where the woman is clearly being taken for a fool, so you can't really then blame people for responding with LTB.

I do judge OW (unless they were unaware the man was attached) because it is something I would never ever do myself. I'm nearly 50 and never have so I can't see that changing! And yes, I have had married men come on to me and it's always been a firm no way. Also, to me it would just "tarnish" anything that could ever develop between us, so it just wouldn't work. I do think it takes a particular type of woman to knowingly get involved with someone who's attached, especially when there are children involved.

I don't see why any of us should be expected to put aside our own morals when commenting on threads. People post with the expectation they will get responses. Some will be responses they don't like, but that's what happens when you post on an internet forum. There are plenty of other people who have been helped by posting on here.

@LeavingLasVegasForGood also if you bothered to READ my comments on other thread you will indeed see that I didn’t agree with the degrading comments but I still think she is a shitty person and I stand by that. No amount of you referring to your third volume of feminism will make me , or the majority of MN users think otherwise.

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Fuckit - I haven't seen that post I wasn't talking about any thread in particular. Just general 'I'm the OW ask me anything' style threads. I don't think anyone has implied that infidelity is a game. It's just life. Shit happens. I'm not undermining it's impact at all but it happens and no amount of screeching by Mumsnetters will change that.

I'm genuinely sorry about your friend but I also suspect that there was more to it, tragic as it is regardless. I'm sure his ex was devastated to think she could have contributed to his death and I don't doubt it will be on her conscience for the rest of her life. Sad for all involved but not her fault that he took his life.

I thought you were saying I was a shitty person in your last post!! I hope you were talking about the OW post (although I haven't read it so can't comment.

Wilibe - I hope I haven't come across as not having empathy. I have lots. I completely understand how what happened to you would have a massive impact. I'm sorry if you think I was being flippant.

Tatty -Were you aware he was still seeing her while you were trying to move on?

Leaving - I've never really considered it as a feminist issue before but I do agree with you in that the OW is often seen as the evil temptress who can't keep her knickers on and her claws off other people's partners. The OW is demonised whereas the OM is rarely mentioned. The cheating woman is a pariah whether she is single or not. Interesting stuff.

Storm - You shouldn't push aside your own morals but neither should people use them as a way of judging others harshly. We're all flawed in one way or another and morality is not only subjective but also dynamic. People often set their own moral compasses to serve their own agenda, situation or point of view. You're right though, people should not allow themselves to be treated like mugs. They have to decide what's best for them. Sometimes people will turn a blind eye to things that they think will threaten their relationship with someone they love.

I suppose there's a cultural element to this. Apparently in France....

;)

Sorry op , yes I was talking about the woman on the other thread being a shitty person x

Thanks :)

Tatty -Were you aware he was still seeing her while you were trying to move on?

He wasn't. It ended the very minute I found out, which was via a text message he received when we'd just gone to bed. I happened to be sitting next to him and saw it, questioned it, and his reaction was so extreme (heart rate, nervous swallowing) that I had no choice but to tell him to start talking... he did. And he texted her immediately, ending whatever it was they had. He has absolutely no reason to be anywhere near her anymore now - she's miles away and he's left his weekly 'digs' which were fairly close to her.

If he hadn't ended it then we'd be moving on anyway, but separately. No way would I tolerate ANY communication between them.

The text message was very neutral really, just a "how about tuesday", at ten to eleven at night, no kisses, nothing else. But it was his reaction that alerted me. He'd clearly been texting her previously, but all other messages (whatsapp) had been deleted. I checked his mobile phone records and until he started using whatsapp, there was quite a lot of texting going on to her number, going back 18 months. Not a massive amount but enough to make it obvious there was something to worry about... and the timings were awful when I started digging around. I went back over all our text messages for that period and found he'd texted her when we were on holiday, then immediately upon his return. But then there'd be nothing for a week, then quite a few, rinse and repeat.

@Trinity66 like you I am the child of an unfaithful father and a mother who suffered the consequences. As did all of us children.

Afaic anyone whining that cheaters get a hard deal can fuck off. I have said the same in real life and will again if it comes up again.

Tatty - I know you've send that your DH and me have followed a similar path (and you said even show similar traits). If it means anything, and he is the same as me in this, I can only say that I really hope you can forgive him and your relationship is stronger from it. Not that it has been a positive experience but that I think that something bad can inspire change and good things can happen as a result. I suspect (if he is the same as me) that is he full of remorse and regret and I hope this means that he will have realised what he (almost ) lost and havbe learned a huge amount from it. I love your 'ownership' of this. I think it has probably given you confidence that you never thought you had. x

Grogan - Do you mean you've had people cheat on you as well as your Father on your Mother? You sound angry about this (I suspect you have your reasons).

SarahJop22 In lots of ways, it's been a positive thing because it's instigated a lot of changes we needed to happen. We both drifted into complacency, probably entirely due to his working away during the week for so many years. We had a fabulous relationship before that and it does appear, at the moment, to be getting back to where it was. He's home every night and it's bloody brilliant. We're both loving being together again. It's not 'hysterical bonding' (as I've read in lots of places), it's going back to where we were for the first 4 or 5 years. We're getting back on track.

I have bad days (yesterday was one) when there are triggers, but it's easing and we're talking about it when that happens. He's being pretty good at reassuring me and working together on this. So far! . Not counting my chickens yet, mind!

Of course long-term relationships are complex and all of us can act badly at times. However there is a difference between acting badly and being an absolute shithead.

I believe that infidelity can happen in most relationships given the right circumstances (consistent neglect from partner, boredom, poor communication, stress such as illness or bereavement and an opportunity with someone who makes you feel alive). As you rightly say, we are all flawed and all human. That doesn’t take away the pain that the person cheated on has to bear.

However, I have very rarely (if ever) come across a post on Relationships where the woman describes her DH acting in the way you’ve described - i.e. where he confesses before it goes further, takes responsibility and tries to improve the relationship. In all the ‘LTB’ cases, the OP generally describes months (or even years) of suspicion, gaslighting and denial. There is a huge difference. When your partner treats you with obvious contempt it will generally give rise to the response that you are better off single.

Grogan - Do you mean you've had people cheat on you as well as your Father on your Mother? You sound angry about this (I suspect you have your reasons)

1. It's Gorgon, not Grogan.

1. No, no one has cheated on me, to the best of my knowledge.

1. What do you mean you 'suspect I have reasons'? I literally stated my reasons in my previous post. Nothing to 'suspect' and no insight required when I have said exactly where I stand and why. Odd.

I don’t necessarily think that affairs must mean the end of the relationship but I do strongly disagree with your notion of ‘it was a mistake’. That’s minimising and shirking responsibility on your part. Affairs aren’t mistakes, they are decisions. Selfish decisions, everything else is bullshit. A decision that might be regretted or a wrong decision but never a mistake.

Gorgon - I won't be reading or responding to your posts again because they are hostile. You sound angry and unhappy. I think you're odd to be honest but we'll leave it at that.

Tatty - I think we did the 'hysterical bonding' for a bit but it was what we needed at the time and it paved the way for us to reconnect afterwards. I think it sounds like you're both committed to making it work and that bodes well for the future. I hope you continue to be happy.

Folkgirl - I agree with you to a certain extent but we can realise our
actions are mistakes way down the line.

I think you're odd to be honest but we'll leave it at that.

Funny that. I think you're a self justifying, self indulgent, selfish cheat who doesn't understand the meaning of loyalty or love. I guess we'll have to agree to differ!

tinkering it's difficult for me to express quite how little I value the opinion of someone who lies to and cheats on the person they are meant to love most in the world.

Why on earth would their view of a random internet poster matter when they can't even remain loyal to the person they've publicly promised to support and be faithful to?

In the long run, staying with a partner who has shown that they care less about you than about getting their rocks off with someone else is a unilaterally terrible idea.

Tinkering my heart absolutely goes out to you. To suffer that betrayal from your parent and now from your husband too must be beyond devastating.

I think you are being incredibly kind and generous to the OP, but actually I've just re-read her thread for a second time and she's only pretending to show remorse or to take responsibility in the most superficial way.

In fact, most of the posts are about how it was the OM's fault - for being oh so persistent and charming and 'all or nothing' and refusing to leave her alone - and also her husband's fault - for neglecting her and 'building a wall' and not communicating.

Between blaming the OM for the affair, and her husband for their shit relationship, the extent to which she is actually taking responsibility for her own actions is really, really minimal.

It's lip service, there's no real owning up going on there.

This is shown when any poster says anything other than how wonderful and brave and honest she is.

As soon as anyone such as me or @Oblomov or other posters criticise her, even mildly, she turns venomous and launches personal attacks at them - anyone who criticises her is 'odd', 'angry', 'sanctimonious', 'puritan', etc. - all direct quotes.

She isn't really taking any responsibility at all for her actions and I think this is important to recognise.

I don't think that cheaters ever do, because they are fundamentally selfish and lack empathy for other people, including those closest to them.

I think that staying with them makes it even less likely that they will ever really own their own decisions and actions.

I'm really, really sorry that you are going through this

Thank you Tinkering. I too have learned a lot especially from Tatty. It's been very interesting to hear her perspective on things because it's made me understand what my partner must have been feeling.

We had another chat about it yesterday and he has said he understands why it happened and he is happy that we are putting mistakes (on both our sides) behind us. We had both become complacent and neglected each other and our relationship suffered as a result.

I think you show a great deal of understanding and are open to hear the stories and experiences of others. That can only help with you moving on.

I'm finding it interesting to read all this from a OW perspective, and it has opened my eyes a little.

Although you made a mistake, it sounds like you're a decent person who realises they made a mistake, is owning it and trying to make a change.

Sadly not all OW are like you. In my case the OW is very cocky, full of herself and sent me sarcastic messages which sounded like she was getting a right kick out of it.

Naturally I feel like I hate her guts for contributing the end of my marriage, god forbid I ever see her face. If she was more like you perhaps it would easier to acknowledge her as a human who simply made a mistake.