I don’t know how to describe what he’s doing

[Tyrantula]

Other than being an annoying twat, which doesn’t get us very far.

We’ve been married for 10 years. It’s been this way for the entire time probably but I guess previously I just picked up the slack and got on with it.

1. He breaks everything. We don’t have nice things because he will break them - crockery, glasses, ornaments, furniture - all accidental and never replaced.

1. If ever there’s something to be done, which there always is, e.g. fix the toilet seat (after he’s broken it), clear the drain (after he’s blocked it), I’ll have to ask him to do it. He’ll then ask for instructions on how to do it, regardless of how many times he’s done it before. It’s probably in the hope I’ll say ‘oh I’ll just do it myself’. He’ll then huff and puff his way through it.

1. Cleaning - he works from home so will leave a mess every day which he’ll ‘cover’ once I’ve come from work. By that I mean he’ll sweep up and wash up, he won’t put things away and clean surfaces, he’ll save that to do as ‘one big job’. So he’ll wait until there are lots of small jobs to be done which then creates one big job as he ‘prefers to tackle the big jobs’. He’ll then start the big job, get distracted and not finish it. So there is a constant mess.

1. We’re in the process of selling our house and so it needs cleaning and de-cluttering. I’ve had to pull him through all of this, asking for him to do each job, making him to do lists, checking on his progress, explaining how best to get things done.

We had a surprise viewing booked in for Monday so on Sunday, we agreed I’d do upstairs and he’d do down - a complete deep clean and de-clutter. I got through 4 rooms and it took hours. Once finished I went downstairs expecting him to be nearly finished, he’d sorted through 2 drawers. That’s it. So then obviously I had to start on downstairs too.

1. The washing - he still asks for instructions each time a wash needs putting on. A couple of weeks ago my DM was coming to stay so I wanted to put on the nice new white sheets. I put them in the wash and told him it was a white wash so to add anything white he had and put it on (I leave for work too early to put it on myself). I come back to find he’d put a pair of jeans in so of course the sheets were ruined.

I tell him to wash his gym kit separately otherwise it makes everything else smell. I put all of the towels in the wash and he put his gym kit in with it.

I had a work trip abroad so finally treated myself to some summery work attire, creams/whites/beiges. I got back and put everything in the wash ready for my trip next week. He put a red tea towel in with it. When I noticed, I was gutted and he replied with ‘I’ll get you some new dresses’.

Between each of those washing incidents I’d reminded him what not to put in and what to wash separately so it’s not like he forgot.

I don’t know how to describe what he is, it’s not malice, it’s not intentional but it’s fucking annoying.

He’s a good dad, he cooks regularly, is respectful and puts my career and needs ahead of his so I know if I complained about this in RL I’d seem pathetic but I just keep thinking about how much more relaxed my day to day life would be if I lived on my own.

I don’t know if I’m a control freak or if he’s the problem, when I try to speak to him about it I can’t find the words to describe what he’s doing. If I say lazy, he can show he isn’t, if I say disrespectful, he can prove he’s not. We go around in circles.

How would you describe this behaviour?

That’s unfair on greenitwas , this man doesn’t have a diagnosis and no one here is qualified to make one. We are all just giving our own opinions and hers is as valid as yours.

Thanks Louisa. Yes, just giving my opinion. I don't see why the OP should look down the barrell of years of being a parent to this man. She has repeatedly asked him to do stuff, showed him how to do stuff and just try and get him to pull his weight. She might actually be doing him a favour by releasing him into the wild for a bit. I'm sure he won't starve. My Dh would sit back and let me do every single thing if I let him and then complain I was tired in the evening. He now takes responsibility for lots of things that he never used to because I realised I was filling in all the gaps and I gradually stopped doing it. I consider my quality of life as equally important as his basically.

Thanks for all of the help everyone. There’s a clear divide between those thinking he has an underlying issue and those who think he’s just taking the easy option and leaving everything for me to do. This is the exact conflict I have in my mind all of the time. I’ll come home to something he’s done and instantly get annoyed then he’ll seem genuinely shocked by it and get defensive so I’ll then feel bad and even though it makes no sense to me I’ll see it could be accidental.

I spoke to him last night about having some sort of underlying issue. I read the dyspraxia checklist and although he agreed a lot of it was an accurate description of him, he was offended by the suggestion he might actually have it and should seek a diagnosis. He got defensive and brought up lists of other illnesses/learning difficulties to show how we both, and even the cat, could fit some of the symptoms listed.

I suggested a PP’s idea of seeing someone who would just help him improve his organisational skills and he wasn’t having that either.

He said that when I ask him to do something or explain how to do it, he’s often already in work mode (because I’ll do it before leaving for work on a weekday), and so his mind is fixated on the one thing - work. He can’t then focus on anything but that one thing. He said lists would definitely help as otherwise anything I say goes out of his head. (So, annoyingly, whilst he was explaining how he doesn’t have an underlying problem he was highlighting another way in which he probably does have one.)

I then explained how disrespectful it is to have someone take the time to explain things over and over again only for him to make no effort to remember any of it, like it’s not his job to and I’ll always be there to remind him again. He agreed and said he’d take notes and make his own lists whenever I explained something to him.

So that’s what we did this morning before I left and I’ve had a few messages since showing me his lists and notes. I have no idea if this will improve anything though.

I’ve agreed to extend my next work trip which will mean he’ll be alone for a few weeks and will have to manage the home and DD (with some help from DM). I guess that’ll give a good indicator on whether he relies on me because he has to or because he chooses to. I just hope I don’t come home to a disaster!

In answer to a PP, he left home for university and lived in halls when I met him. He then moved straight from halls to living with me. I then went back to do postgraduate studies and he did all of the cooking, shopping and looking after DD. So he pretty much managed the home then but would still ask for shopping lists etc. If I left him to it, he’d often come home with a repeat of the previous shop, despite us still having those things leftover. Or he’d buy some treats for us all and forget he’d bought them then I’d find them a few weeks after their use by date.

Look up passive aggressive behaviour, breaking things is part of it. Pretending not to understand how to do something, passive agressive. It was like a lightbulb when I connected the two things after looking it up one day about my ex!

Another person suggesting that his behaviour could possibly be Dysraxia (DCD). My DS is diagnosed and is academically bright but he has trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time and gets totally overwhelmed if he is given too many instructions at once as he just cant take it in, he can be completely unaware that his room is a mess if he is focused on something else.

I only buy cheap glasses now as it is usual for him to accidentally break one every few weeks, when we eat out he is hyper aware of his clumsiness, this makes him nervous and embarrassed which can actually make his co ordination worse.

Dypraxia is a unique condition that does not affect intelligence and varies from individual to individual but the general difficulties tend to be fine and gross muscle co ordination, organisation, memory, perception and processing.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/developmental-coordination-disorder-dyspraxia-in-adults/

I would remain angry with him for getting defensive. If he was sorry or trying to improve, fair play but.....

He doesn't feel he has Dyspraxia, doesn't want to look into it and took the time to go right through the symptoms and say it could apply to everyone in the household...!

He must have managed when he lived away from home OP? I'm vaguely wondering if it's this prominent, why you didn't notice in your courtship stage. Or did it 'suddenly' become a thing once you moved in together and then responsibilities were required to be shared?

I hope all goes well OP as it's a heavy mental load to carry for life. I noticed he's still messaging you his lists so matter what, every single thing has to involve you. Even when you're not there, and are working or have something else you need to focus on, you have to be reeled in.

I'm mindful he has not been diagnosed with Dyspraxia at all.

But whatever the case if it's ever too much for you then you've the right to feel that way, and to act accordingly, without martyrdom in mind. Again, given that there's no Dyspraxia etc diagnosis and he's not interested in looking into it anyway.

As pp said, your life quality is equally as important as his.

Whether he is doing this deliberately or unintentionally is unclear.

What is clear is that it's pretty fucking awful to live with.

Can you honestly say you have a quality of life living like this?

I have taken your OP and put in capitals the behaviours that suggest to me PA behaviour. He may well be dyspraxic / ADD - so of course some things go wrong - what concerns me tho is what he does next - ie does he attempt to rectify, does he try new coping strategies, show concern for how this impacts on you and try to alleviate that - or does he do the opposite? Does he leave it all in a mess, does he never make an effort to learn, does he disrespect your feelings and the exhaustion this situation leaves you in?

1. He breaks everything. We don’t have nice things because he will break them - crockery, glasses, ornaments, furniture - all accidental and NEVER REPLACED.

1. If ever there’s something to be done, which there always is, e.g. fix the toilet seat (after he’s broken it), clear the drain (after he’s blocked it), I'LL HAVE TO ASK HIM TO DO IT. He’ll then ask for instructions on how to do it, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY TIMES HE HAS DONE IT BEFORE. It’s probably in the hope I’ll say ‘oh I’ll just do it myself’. HE'LL THEN HUFF AND PUFF HIS WAY THRU IT.

1. Cleaning - he works from home so will leave a mess every day which he’ll ‘cover’ ONCE I'VE COME FROM WORK. By that I mean he’ll sweep up and wash up, HE WONT put things away and clean surfaces, he’ll save that to do as ‘one big job’. So HE'LL WAIT until there are lots of small jobs to be done which then creates one big job as he ‘prefers to tackle the big jobs’. He’ll then start the big job, get distracted and NOT FINISH IT. So there is a constant mess.

1. We’re in the process of selling our house and so it needs cleaning and de-cluttering. I’ve had to pull him through all of this, asking for him to do each job, making him to do lists, checking on his progress, explaining how best to get things done.

We had a surprise viewing booked in for Monday so on Sunday, we agreed I’d do upstairs and he’d do down - a complete deep clean and de-clutter. I got through 4 rooms and it took hours. Once finished I went downstairs expecting him to be nearly finished, HE'D SORTED THRU 2 DRAWERS. That’s it. So then obviously I had to start on downstairs too.

1. The washing - he still asks for instructions each time a wash needs putting on. A couple of weeks ago my DM was coming to stay so I wanted to put on the nice new white sheets. I put them in the wash and told him it was a white wash so to add anything white he had and put it on (I leave for work too early to put it on myself). I come back to find HE'D PUT A PAIR OF JEANS IN SO OF COURSE THE SHEETS WERE RUINED.

I TELL HIM to wash his gym kit separately otherwise it makes everything else smell. I put all of the towels in the wash AND HE PUTS HIS GYM KIT IN WITH IT.

I had a work trip abroad so finally treated myself to some summery work attire, creams/whites/beiges. I got back and put everything in the wash ready for my trip next week. He put a red tea towel in with it. When I noticed, I WAS GUTTED AND HE REPLIED WITH AN EYEROLL ‘I’ll get you some new dresses’.

Between each of those washing incidents I’d reminded him what not to put in and what to wash separately SO ITS NOT LIKE HE FORGOT.

I don’t know how to describe what he is, it’s not malice, it’s not intentional but it’s fucking annoying.

He’s a good dad, he cooks regularly, is respectful and puts my career and needs ahead of his so I know if I complained about this in RL I’d seem pathetic but I just keep thinking about how much more relaxed my day to day life would be if I lived on my own.

I don’t know if I’m a control freak or if he’s the problem, when I try to speak to him about it I can’t find the words to describe what he’s doing. If I say lazy, HE CAN SHOW ME HE ISNT, if I say disrespectful, HE CAN PROVE HE's NOT. We go around in circles.

He doesn't care that it is driving you to distraction, he is being, slippery and obtuse, he is not looking for a solution for the frustration in the relationship - because it suits him just fine.

Do you have a more successful career than him?

I’m glad you explained how dosripectful he was being and that he’s agreed to make notes etc.

I really hope he’s taken on board how annoyed you are and he utilises those lists. Once he gets into a routine with them and uses them for a few weeks, they will become second nature to him.

Dyspraxia etc or not, I'd not be putting up with this. Especially as he refuses to look into it/get help for the problem.

I believe my exh has mental health issues, and probably a few personality disorders. He was scheduled to see a psychiatrist before we broke up...but I just couldn't handle him anymore and I ended things before that happened (he's just generally a disliked and vile person though). He's still been a nightmare to deal with since we broke up (and unfortunately I do still have to deal with him because we have kids) but I don't regret leaving. I don't have to deal with him daily, and living with him. The kids and I are much happier.

If life with him is making you unhappy, and he won't address it professionally to rule out if he has a disorder, just leave. And even if he did address it and things just won't change no matter how it is being treated, you are under no obligation to stay and put your own mental health at risk. What you have described sounds exhausting.

That is dyspraxia and executive functioning deficit. I bet you a grand.

Does he work in IT or science? He does, doesn’t he?

Poor bugger. I have 3 males in my life like this and I oscillate between wanting to fix them and wanting to kill them.

There's a term for this and I can't remember it for the life of me! So annoying.

Basically he's deliberately doing everything badly in order to make sure you do it in future (and also to punish you for expecting him to pull his weight in the first place).

Have you actually read the thread, Smeerf?

"He said that when I ask him to do something or explain how to do it, he’s often already in work mode (because I’ll do it before leaving for work on a weekday), and so his mind is fixated on the one thing - work. He can’t then focus on anything but that one thing." @Tyrantula this sounds exactly like my DH. He literally cannot hear or process anything outside of what he's directly focused on.

And thanks to the PP who mentioned executive function deficit ! I've googled and (my DH was diagnosed dyspraxic at 15) it sounds much more like the specific issues he has (he isn't clumsy or anything it's more this mental stuff).

V welcome!

tbh getting a diagnosis as an adult could be extremely time consuming and may not be that helpful - it's not like there's a cure available. The best 'cure' is to structure life so that it works for both of you - just like his boss did for work.

I can understand him getting defensive, but if there's a house move on the cards, could you start the convo with "In this new house, I think we can arrange things this way..." and talk about the different strengths each of you have.

I, too, have a husband who fits much of these descriptions, and he's almost completely oblivious to it. I'm a teacher and have seen thousands of kids and their books/lockers etc and can safely say that DH is WAY outside of the norm for organization/tidiness etc.

His untidiness still frustrates me, but we have ways of working around it. His clothes get pushed out the way where I don't have to see them, I do most day to day chores. He's a computer wizz and makes sure that all the wifi & tech in the house are working properly. He's also actually REALLY good with DIY - neat and fastidious to annoyance. (Sometimes does the same thing over & over as it isn't perfect enough yet). When his brain is engaged, he's totally absorbed and able to do brilliantly, but he can't cope with more than one thing at a time.

I still get annoyed a lot of the time, but now it isn't at the make-or-break level. He's accepted that having lost 5 sets of keys in 10 years perhaps isn't normal (he's useless with keys - those are just the house keys he's lost. Wallets, watches, work keys, car keys. 2 or 3 'losses' a year are his going rate). A bit of gentle taking the piss also helps.

Most of the time we're OK, but it can be disastrous - he's incompetent, you're upset, you snap, he gets defensive - it doesn't make for a happy family. So find what DOES work.

@KickAssAngel wow my DH is exactly the same. Loses keys and bank cards regularly. But one detailed task like diy or construction or design and he will spend hours making it perfect and precise

Jesus I just happened upon this post, and this is pretty much exactly my situation! I am now going to Google dyspraxia and executive function deficit. It's actually a relief to hear people say how mad it would drive them, he is slowly driving me insane and I pray for a lottery win so that we can afford to live separately, we'd get on so much better if we did I think we both agree we love each other but i think it's got to the point I now have anxiety over it all. I used to just ignore it and live amongst the mess but now we have 4 kids between us and life is much harder, you have to be organised or you just go under, and I feel like I can't have people round to the house because we're always up the wall. It's actually isolating! I've gone through the same is it passive aggression/does he genuinely have a problem argument in my head so many times. Solidarity... if you get him to listen please tell me how.

I think another20's post is spot on and highlights the real issues.

Reading through all these posts, I wonder how many men would put up with such behaviours from women?

I guess that’ll give a good indicator on whether he relies on me because he has to or because he chooses to.

Why can't it be both? People are rarely firmly one or the other, but rather a mix of things. So he might well struggle to do things, and at the same time realizes that it's easier to let you do them than try to do them himself. They really aren't mutually exclusive.

Having him make his own lists is the most important part. He has to take ownership of his difficulties. Up until now, you've been spoon feeding him.

Also, you like getting jobs done just before you head out to work. Maybe he would prefer to get them done at a different time? Perhaps you need to split tasks, and he does them whenever he chooses, but if he hasn't done them but X time (you can discuss it and work out X time together) you have every right to get mardy with him and he has no right to get mardy back in his defensiveness.

DH and his brother are like this. They both have dyspraxia.

I don’t know how SIL has dealt with it (she obviously has because they are very happy) but I found this essay massively helpful: mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/

The difference is that my DH is mortified by it and actively works to combat it. Yours sounds like he thinks it’s your problem. Get him to read that essay.

To me, I don't think it sounds all that innocent.

The tea towel, if it's a Christmas one, it clearly hadn't just been used, so no need for it to be washed with your beautiful, new summer clothes. Could there be jealousy there? Possibly. Maybe he doesn't want you to look nice, or have nice things.
To me, the tea towel is telling. He's had to find that, and knowing red would really stain the white/creams. That seems deliberate/malicious and I agree with others, he's most likely passive aggressive.

The not doing anything so you have to do it seems intentional to me. He knows you'll pick up his slack, so where's his payoff in actually doing it? He knows he doesn't need to and you'll end up doing it.

Even if it is dyspraxia or a learning difficulty, your DH should at least have the decency to not minimise the stress and hurt he causes you. I am extremely clumsy and naturally disorganised. I've had to build up small systems in my life to ensure that I'm sufficiently organised and coordinated so as to put minimal burden on others. If I break something, I replace it and try to avoid standing near fragile objects or borrowing other people's belongings.

I'm also guilty of leaving things to the last minute, but I love my DH enough to at least make an effort to tidy/sweep/clean my clutter 10 minutes before he comes home.

Learning difficulty or not, your husband needs to admit his own shortcomings and actively put the effort in to mitigate his own issues.

Since the laundry is causing so much stress between you, is there any way that you could take over laundry duty whilst handing him over one of your usual responsibilities?

Oh, and the colour run things really, really work.