Will he ever propose... Do I still want him to?

[CityTeacher]

Hi - so I'll warn you all in advance that this is a long post.
My partner and I have been together since we were 21, I am now 29.
We have spoken several times about marriage, children, etc. We even tried to get a mortgage on our flat together.
A few years ago my friend got engaged and DP started his own conversation with me about how he wanted to get engaged ASAP. I expressed that I felt in the same place. This was in 2014.

Since then, we have spoken about engagement and marriage quite openly. This is a two-way conversation and isn't brought up by myself more so than him. But we're not engaged still? I have asked about myself asking him, but he wasn't down for this at all and said that he was already looking at rings, etc.

We have had frank conversations where I have told him that this is not what I wanted, and not what I want in the future. DP always agrees and will go on and on about how he wants nothing else. We have done some amazing things together, including spending Christmas under the Northern Lights, as well as going on a whaling adventure (I'm obsessed with whales) and yet he still didn't ask. He always tells me that he wants it to be 'perfect' but I have been feeling more and more that he just isn't ever going to ask.

It's now at the point where I feel like all excitement and magic has gone out of the prospect of him proposing to me. I'm honestly not sure I even want it now? I feel so conflicted... but if he really wanted to marry me, would he have dragged it on this long whilst continuously reminding me that he wishes we had moved on with our life, etc? It makes me wonder about in the future - will I always just be left waiting until he feels everything is right? If I had known years ago that I would still be waiting around, I wouldn't have stuck with him. I know that sounds awful but it's the truth.

As a side note, I found out at the start of our relationship that I didn't have many eggs (infertility runs in my family) and so we prioritised having children before the age of 27, as advised by my Doctor. This is now years ago, and I so often wonder what I would do if we couldn't now have kids just because we have waited around so long. (We both want to be engaged before having kids)

So, any advice? Any anything?
Is he being unfair? Am I?

Would you be prepared to ask him to marry you?
If not maybe it's ultimatum time....... x

Am I reading this right? You both agreed to get engaged before children and that you would need to try for children before the age of 27 but that deadline passed 2 years ago and now you might not be able to have kids because he doesn’t want you to propose but he won’t propose either?!

So you are just waiting, with the carrot of engagement and kids dangling in front of you?

What prevented you from getting a mortgage together? Is he a cocklodger?

Being engaged is meaningless - marriage before kids at least has a point. It's all talk with him on this, isn't it?

If he really wanted to, he’d have asked. Not everyone wants to get married though, you need a big conversation

You tried to get a mortgage but didn't? Why is that? It might give more info.

You have both agreed you want to marry so are technically engaged. Who wants a proposal? You or him?

I've already been down the route of me asking him - he gave me the whole 'I want to ask you... it should be special for you...' etc.

And yes you are reading it right. It's just such a confused scenario now and I'm starting to feel like maybe I should bail?

We were offered the flat we currently rent (which we love) but then couldn't get a mortgage as they found Japanese Knotweed in the car park. So not his fault.

It's just so awful because he's so interested in me, and kind, and I know that he does love me - he just seems too relaxed, and ineffective at actually getting things done.

And I know it sounds so selfish, but I do think that he is now gearing up to propose. We are off to Lake Bled on holiday in about a month's time.. and all I keep thinking is:

1. If he proposes, how it might make me rage inside because it has taken so long, and it's obvious now, and it just feels like a letdown. Like the excitement is over and fizzled, just for waiting so long. For literally seven years I have had family asking "when are you two getting engaged then" and DP has fondly looked into my eyes and said "soon."
2. If he doesn't propose, I might actually gouge out my eyes in frustration.

I just keep going round and round.

Completely talk so far it seems. I just feel I have invested so much time, and it's clear that he DOES really love me and want to be with me at some point...

So he says he wants to marry you, you say you want to marry him and yet you are not engaged? Just ask him. If he says no then you know it was a lie.

If you arent bothered about a big proposal, tell him that and tell him if arrangements aren't made to married soon, you need to leave as it's important to you.

But then he may propose even if he doesn't to get married. Its very difficult.

If you've both discussed it in full and he keeps going on about a ring and 'perfect proposal' but not actually doing it after years, then it sounds like he's bluffing

Honestly, proposals are overrated. Far more romantic for someone to actually get the ball rolling and being involved in planning than a Kodak moment proposal

Dh never proposed, we just sort of decided to get married and did.

Do you want children? This is all so wishy washy. You need to take action.

I waited for years too. Then he proposed and I waited for years for the wedding. It never happened, he never committed and we split up. It was a waste of years of my life. Interestingly he dangled the carrot too, claiming 'id marry you tomorrow if I could' often at the start of the relationship. In the end I didn't want to marry him, I was sick of his bullshit.

Hopefully you're not in the same scenario, but I would be questioning why he feels the next to 'make it perfect' for you when he doesn't actually care enough to do anything about it. He's also not bothered about your fertility. I'd say he's got commitment issues, either in general or he doesn't want to commit to you. Sorry and I hope I'm wrong and he does everything right for you

I think you need one more chat. Not so much about a proposal but a timescale for marrying and having children. You can make a plan together. If you don’t get anywhere I would call it a day.

Beware, you might find he suddenly wants to do it all if you actually leave.

Racecardriver, Shortstuff09, TurnipCake and Wagil I think you are all right.

I would happily just get married, I have even suggested this.
When my Grandad passed away he left me a diamond solitaire ring - I have offered this to DP should he want to use it.
I've just gone through every option available and it seems to make no difference.

Whenever I start a "serious talk" about this DP just gets really upset to the point that I end up apologising. He reiterates "why would I be here" "I love you" etc and just keeps telling me that getting engaged is all he wants, he's just waiting for "the right time".

Like I said though if being under the Northern Lights for Christmas week (which he paid for, and surprised me with - see, he's so lovely!) wasn't right enough, what the bloody heck does he want?

Why are you being so passive op? I totally get why you feel like a big romantic proposal will be anti-climatic now. You have to tell him how you feel. And if he doesn't listen then he's not the man for you.

I'd be more concerned about the dwindling fertility if i were you.

Its ultimatum time I think OP.

How many more of your fertile years do you want to wait on him?

Tbh, if this is a dealbreaker for you, you'd be better breaking it off sooner than later. It sounds like there have been many "perfect moments" that he's let go by.

Far more romantic for someone to actually get the ball rolling and being involved in planning than a Kodak moment proposal

I agree with this. And your situation is exactly why. Where is the romance in keeping you on your toes for 7 years to the point where you're frustrated and annoyed, even if he does finally ask.

Men don't have the biological clock to worry about, but in your case, he knows that, not only do you have the usual timescales to worry about, you also have a potential fertility issue. Don't waste any more of your best years hanging around. Tell him it's more important to be married than to have a big romantic proposal and then wait around for another 7 years while he stalls on planning the actual wedding

Time to shit or get off the pot.

You have both agreed you want to marry so are technically engaged. Who wants a proposal? You or him?

This is trotted out a lot on MN and it’s disingenuous at best.

This couple aren’t engaged. They have both discussed their futures and that they want to get engaged then married then kids.

Of course they’re not engaged. A couple isn’t ‘engaged’ just because they’ve both expressed a wish to marry. Engagement is when you officially say ‘I know for sure I want to marry you and set plans to do so in motion. Will you marry me?’ ‘Yes!’ Or ‘no’.

You’re not engaged if you’ve both said at one point ‘yes I’d like to marry you someday’.

Some couples do buck the trend and discuss marriage and agree to start plans and agree that makes them engaged but it’s not a default. I can say to my OH I want to marry him one day but until there’s a proposal I wouldn’t take it as a definite. It’s expressing a desire. A proposal acceptance is expressing a decision and is the first step to planning to wed.

If discussing it and both saying they want to marry each other was enough they’d have been married by now.

OP I know you know this, but he doesn’t want to be married to you yet or, After eight years, he would be. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t love or want to be with you. But if marriage is important for you you may have to end this relationship and find someone who wants marriage too.

How on earth did the 27 years old TTC deadline pass without a whimper? I don’t understand that. If that were me then by 26 I’d have been having the discussion of ‘it takes a while to plan a wedding and we wanted to be trying next year, are we getting married or what?’ Why didn’t that happen?

Marriage isn’t a thing that happens to a woman if she passively waits for a ring long enough, it’s a major decision that affects you both equally and given that you’re ready, it’s unfair for him not to give you the knowledge you need to make a decision: that he will propose before the year is over or that he doesn’t want to ever or for a set number of years. You can say to him this is important and you need to know his plans now so you can decide whether to stay or go. Part of the reason you feel so shit is you’ve let this drag on for so long without any self agency, as if it’s not your decision too.

Though some would say four years of ‘yes I want to marry you’ passing without a proposal is its own answer.

I would be putting it on a plate. DP do you ever want kids with me? Because if you do my fertility is reducing as time goes on so
We need to start trying soon

At which point he’ll either say let’s try then or say oh but I thought we both wanted to get engaged first blah blah which is just a get out Clsuse and time for you to move on.

keeps telling me that getting engaged is all he wants, he's just waiting for "the right time"

You're past that point now, getting engaged is totally pointless. You need to tell him the right time is now or not at all. But TBH it sounds like maybe the latter, as you've said you wouldn't have waited around for him all this time if you'd known you wouldn't be married. Maybe he's just not the one?

just keeps telling me that getting engaged is all he wants, he's just waiting for "the right time".

Then he needs to tell you what ‘the right time’ means.

Is it something concrete? Like he wants to break a certain income threshold or reach a certain level at work?

Or is it just a delaying tactic because it’s so nebulous it could mean literally anything?

Ask him what it means to be the right time. If he can’t tell you, leave. Seriously. It’s so deeply unattractive to be with a man who just keeps dangling romance in front of your eyes to obscure you from seeing and achieving what you actually want which is legal commitment and starting a family.

There will never be a magical ‘right time’. It doesn’t matter. And even if he was sooooo into that idea? He’s had eight years to construct it. He sounds like a wet lettuce. Very unattractive.

When a man knows he’s got a good thing going and he believes in marriage he will have married you.

Ultimatum time

If he wanted it to be perfect he would have done it before you started doubting h8m and worrying about eggs

If you think waiting around on a proposal gives you the rage, wait until you want him to spontaneously change a nappy, or relieve you of a night feed with a newborn, or decide on a nursery. Idle platitudes and wistful glances don't cut it when you're elbow-deep (sometimes literally) in the shit of early-years parenting. Think hard before your next move, OP.

Whenever I start a "serious talk" about this DP just gets really upset to the point that I end up apologising. He reiterates "why would I be here" "I love you" etc and just keeps telling me that getting engaged is all he wants, he's just waiting for "the right time".

So he knows how to shut you down & make you apologise for wanting to have a perfectly reasonable discussion? Bollocks to that

I wouldn't be surprised if his stalling is putting you off him. It's heart sinking when someone has paid you lip service and wasted years of your time

The solitaire from your grandad sounds lovely, I wouldn't offer it to this lazy arse, I'd use it to symbolise my independence

And you can tell him straight it’s deeply unfair and patronising of him to hold back on proposing due to some magical imaginary concept as a ‘right time’ without giving you info on timescales and plans when it’s an issue that affects your life hugely.

It’d be like me wanting to move house to a new area because I’m sick of where I live and it’s time to move on, my OH saying ‘oh I want nothing more than that too!’ for eight years, but refusing to do it because it’s not the ‘right time’ and never telling me why or what would be the right time. It’s bullshit.

Never be afraid to walk away OP. Don’t be a woman who’s scared of bringing up marriage in case she scares him away. If someone can be scared away by the concept of being lucky enough to be married to you, you want them to run, so you can make space to meet someone who sees what a wonderful thing he has in being with you.

I’d be getting quite angry after all this time tbh. Though I think I’d have bailed after the first year or two past the time we’d agreed to move towards marriage without a proposal. And 100% once I hit the age where my fertility began to tank and still no wedding.