Do I tell DW

[HarmlessChap]

DW is insecure and slightly controlling (she admits as much) Its taken much effort to get her to tolerate me having a social life without her continually texting if I'm out; she even wanted me to install an app so she could see where I was at all times, which I refused to do as partly as I see it as an invasion of privacy but also because I know the panic she gets into when she can't see where the kids (teenagers) are and many of the places we go to are cellar bars which have no mobile reception or GPS. Incidentally it also caused issues with me not receiving texts and replying promptly before I said I'm not having her text me every 30 minutes when I'm out and ignoring if she does.

She consistently tells me that all my friends are useless and doesn't know what I see in them and to my shame I let her isolate me from all my old friends when we got married for the same reason.

Anyway a female acquaintance, who I think is probably single but I don't know her well, friend of friends, was out with us tonight. She's a very flirty type, known for outrageous comments, but I thought harmless, tried to kiss me. She was a bit drunk, I pushed her away and said "I'm married" she said "I know, I don't care" I replied "well I do" I told our mutual friends what happened, left and got a taxi home.

If I tell DW I think it would play into her insecurities and cause real difficulties in me maintaining any form of social life beyond her (and she doesn't like going out) but if I don't tell her I'm keeping secrets and that's no better.

Any advice?

You shouldn’t have told your friends. Don’t tell anybody anything about women.

Sorry for repetition. This is a very sticky website.

This sounds awful. You sound like you are really trying hard to improve your marriage though, but sometimes maybe you shouldn't. I feel for you op.

@eightfacesofthemoon is absolutely right. They'll end up on the Stately Homes thread sharing about their toxic family. If you don't do something now, there's a real risk they'll go NC with both of you when they leave home.

I should think most abusers had messed up childhoods. My abusive F did, and he also had Parkinson's Disease. It made it very hard to see him for what he was, and my DM stood by him and thus was his enabler. He's been dead for many years now, but my relationship with my DM is very damaged and I'm very low contact with her.

OP your DW is not normal. It's common to be insecure but to call you all the time while you are out, stop you seeing your friends and want a tracking device on your phone suggests she sees you as a possession and is emotionally abusing and controlling you. I'm sure you will think we are being silly, but (I presume you are a man?) abuse can happen to men but I think men find it harder to identify. But trust me, no one should be controlling you like that and she needs calling out on it.

PS no I wouldn't tell her, enjoy your social life, you've done nothing wrong. I don't usually believe in keeping secrets but for your sake I wouldn't tell her.

My point is, fearful doesn't always mean controlling and awful.

Except it seems when it’s the man whose behaviour is ostensibly controlling and awful. On MN, he’s generally just plain abusive

@Lizzie48 sorry to say but I can lash out verbally when I’m full meltdown. I don’t generally have any control at that point and am then horrified afterwards and come out the other side thinking I am worthless and that everyone is better off without me.

I am very lucky to have a wonderful DH who has supported me with my diagnosis, my meltdowns, my anxiety, my sensory overloads and we are learning how to manage it all together.

@steamingpistons saying she is “not normal” is very unfair. She has some issues going on that could be one of any number of things and needs help and support probably in those rather than judgement from people without a full view of their life and situation.

what kind of app tracker do you mean? Around here lots of people have Life 360 on mobile phones, very good if you/your family members do lots of traveling or in case you lost you phone. No one sees it as invasion of privacy. Things like this are very common nowadays. The same with answering txt messages, some people are more anxious and tend to worry more than others, just to bear this mind.

A friend of mine had similar issues - his DP texting him whenever he went out, and calling to "check he is OK." She had mental health issues around anxiety, and eventually was willing to seek counselling, which allowed her to control her behaviour and negotiate with her partner. He agreed to call her once he'd arrived where he was going, and text her on the way back, and she agreed not to hassle him.

However, I think many of us have been in a position with a partner where we become insecure because we feel neglected or taken for granted. It's horrible turning into a needy, whiny person. I don't have enough information to know if that's the case with her - are you giving her the love and attention you think she deserves?

I can lash out as well, actually, @EmergencyNamePanic though I always apologise for it afterwards and my DH understands the issues I'm dealing with, and I am having therapy. I don't belittle him, though or attempt to control him. What I have said in the past is, 'You'd all be better off without me.'

As other PPs have noted, though, is that when a man is controlling, there is no sympathy for him at all and the unanimous advice is to LTB.

There is less sympathy for men here, I'd agree. Normal, I would say, as most posters are women and easier able to imagine themselves in the woman's shoes.

There should be sympathy for people with this kind of mental health issue. It's too simplistic to say "She is nasty". It's not like she wants to be that way. And in some ways it stops people like Harmless from leaving, as he doesn't want to act like he thinks his wife is nasty.

People don't have to be nasty before you leave. It is OK to say "I'm sorry about your mental health problem, but I don't want it to be my problem too".

what kind of app tracker do you mean?
I'm on Android, she and the DCs are on iPhone. She sent me a link for an app which would share my location with her, I don't remember what app. Her attitude was isn't this great if you install that I can see where you are just like I can the kids.

As I understand it she has the facility to see the geographical location of all her Apple devices which is how she monitors the location of the DCs.

As for autism she does exhibit some characteristics as do our DCs, but then again we are all on the somewhere on the spectrum!

Delete the apps. From every device. If she kicks off, let her kick off.

There is absolutely no excuse for this. Grow a fucking spine.

Can you track her down and monitor her movements too?

See, with regards to the tracking apps, a lot of people I know have them for their families. However if the kids are really that against it and her rule is I pay then my rules, encourage them to get a job so they can fund their own phones and she has no excuse.

From reading your previous posts I would suggest that YOU go to counselling, to try and work out why you continue to stay in this miserable excuse for a relationship. Your wife has rejected you time and again, she controls you and your DC (I know you are worried about not seeing them if you split up, but they are effectively adults. Do you not think that they know exactly what's going on in your relationship? They see it constantly.)

You have posted for advice many times and shared your story, yet you seem unable or unwilling to find happiness for yourself. Ask yourself what you will have at the end of another two decades - you have ONE life. Are you willing to squander the opportunity for a fulfilling relationship? Nobody gets a medal for putting up with miserable situations such as this.

As I read your posts, I felt sorry for you, but thankful for my wonderful DH and the live and support he gives me every day; this kind of support is vital to our wellbeing - go to a counsellor, find out what you need and live the one life you have to the full.

You sound like a very noble person, with the kind reaction to a flirty woman we'd love all our husbands to be. If I were you, I wouldn't tell the wife. Sounds like she doesn't trust you anyway, and sometimes lack of trust is down to another person's actions/attitudes, and sometimes it's an innate quality no matter what a partner does.
It will set the wife off. It must be very hard to live with someone so controlling, but there's a thing I learnt from experience: "you need to filter the truth". And honesty isn's always impressive to another person.

Another thing: if your wife checks your everything, she'll find that FB message from female friend. You could say on FB to her that you'd rather not have any such nonsense about "spark" as you are fucking married, or will have to block her due to wife's surveillance. The flirty friend probably sees you as a low hanging fruit, knowing how difficult dear wife is, and thinks it's the matter of time really.

Finally, mate, I don't know how you manage. If I were you, I'd need a biohazard suit to cope with such life circumstances. Good luck anyway.

He's had/having counselling. It's her who refuses to.
Harmless, your name really reminds me of my stepfather! Makes me all the sadder when I see you saying that you won't "give up on your marriage", and trying to make it all sound as OK as possible.

If you were my husband I would rather know stuff like that but your wife does sound very controlling and insecure. I don't know if I could live like that almost walking on eggshells and unable to be totally honest with her

I'll say a few more things and then shut up, but I don't know what other members will make of it, which is: sometimes a good attitude can heal an insecure person. (this is my experience, your situation may be different but hey, worth a try, if you already didn't do so).

In my first marriage I was a kind of wife you describe: insecure, jealous and neurotic. My 1st husband's attitudes/actions didn't help although I never texted him every 30min or tracked him. But I snooped on his emails or texts, feeling like a total shit, and what I found only made me feel worse. When he left me saying "You need a carer, not a husband" I, thankfully, didn't buy it but I was thinking I'm so vulnerable no other man would want to be with me.

Surprisingly, it was't true. My following boyfriend's occasional phrase "You just don't flirt with anyone if you're attached", as well as avoiding a particularly flirty female friend who was a hit with men, made me trust him to the point that I was good friends with his ex who was very much on the scene. She and I met for lunch/drink, and we three went out together to a film or meal, all very civilised and friendly without any flirty bs. On one occasion he gently kissed her hair in my presence and I was deeply hurt but gave myself 2-3 days to see how I feel about it before saying anything. In the end I didn't, and dropped it altogether. He was just a very gentle caring person.
My second husband absolutely adores me, and I'm the one who gives reassurance - because I know exactly what to say, i.e. what I wanted my 1st Husband to say which he didn't. I can give him all my passwords, he can read anything I write to others, because whatever I say about him is that I can't believe I can be loved that much. So, the bottom line is: you can help your wife to feel more secure in your marriage.

You said you love her. If this isn't a half, then it's 2/3 of what a good husband is. Then tell her you love her, send a text. Or buy flowers. I bet she won't bark at you "what's that for? are you guilty of something or what?" I bet she will be genuinely touched. Try to spend time with her away from the kids, if you can afford a childminder. Make her feel she - and the children, your family - are the most important people in your life. Stay with the kids so she can go out to see friends. If you email anyone, make sure you don't say anything about her she'll be upset about if she reads it, for she probably will. You say she doesn't like your friends. Is it because she is never there when you see them? Are there any people who are "harmless", another couple, you can see together? And show to them, by gentle touch or smile to her, how much you value her, so she doesn't see social interaction as a threat? For a vulnerable, jealous person it's important when a partner shows OTHER PEOPLE how much they are loved.

What I'm saying is the men I met after my 1st husband, their attitude and actions, turned me from an insecure downer of a woman into somebody jolly, friendly, supportive and not jealous at all. I even gave up antidepressants I was taking for 20 years.

I hope this helps, and by all means good luck. It might be a shitty time in your life, but you may overcome it, and still be together in old age, looking after each other.

Love to you both.

BloodyDisgrace And did you tell your partner that nobody else would have him? Did you install tracking devices on his phones?

You are wrong about something. It wasn't the men you met who "cured" you of your insecurity. It was you.

On one occasion he gently kissed her hair in my presence and I was deeply hurt but gave myself 2-3 days to see how I feel about it before saying anything. In the end I didn't, and dropped it altogether.

You did that. You made that decision. The OP's wife refuses to have counselling or to make any changes, because she just prefers to have everyone dancing to her tune. And the OP enables it.

That's the difference.

You say she doesn't like your friends. Is it because she is never there when you see them?

"DW won't have aynything to do with my friends"
"Whenever I go out she says the following day, did you get off with anyone. I reply "no", sigh, "of course not" and she says "nobody else would have you". "
"It's common for people to bring other friends or partners when we do. DW would be welcome but doesn't want to join us."
" It wasn't so bad when we got married, albeit she did manage to isolate me from my friendship group"

This doesn't really sound like your experience to me.

@DistanceCall - oh well, bang goes my promise to shut up ...
You might be right in many ways. And thank you for being positive about me, the person you don't know, and I appreciate your kind words.
Re: refusal to go to therapy. People are still afraid of marital therapy (i presume that's the one implied here), for it means acknowledging a problem in marriage, which leads to the threat of it ending, so the majority, at first, would naturally try to pretend there isn't a problem/threat to marriage. Wrong, but very very human. And therapists are an odd bunch: our misery pays for their mortgages. Where you might go into therapy hoping the specialist will at least to try to save your marriage (as I did), you'll find them just sitting there, "listening", for 80quid an hour. So I understand people being hesitant about that one. Personal therapy can be different, say, to deal with your own insecurities. CBT can offer, at least, some distraction tactics for the painful obsessive thoughts.

So, let me make sure I've got this straight:

Man acts in controlling and abusive manner - 'prick, arsehole, LTB'

Woman acts in exactly the same manner - she clearly has mental health problems, she needs to be understood, let's crawl all over her DP's posting history to see what we can find on him.

I fucking hate this place sometimes.

BloodyDisgrace No, I wasn't referring to marital counselling. I was referring to one-on-one therapy. This woman has serious anxiety and control issues that have to do with her childhood, which are being enabled by her husband, and which her children are suffering.

It's not a relationship problem. It's about her.