Do I tell DW

[HarmlessChap]

DW is insecure and slightly controlling (she admits as much) Its taken much effort to get her to tolerate me having a social life without her continually texting if I'm out; she even wanted me to install an app so she could see where I was at all times, which I refused to do as partly as I see it as an invasion of privacy but also because I know the panic she gets into when she can't see where the kids (teenagers) are and many of the places we go to are cellar bars which have no mobile reception or GPS. Incidentally it also caused issues with me not receiving texts and replying promptly before I said I'm not having her text me every 30 minutes when I'm out and ignoring if she does.

She consistently tells me that all my friends are useless and doesn't know what I see in them and to my shame I let her isolate me from all my old friends when we got married for the same reason.

Anyway a female acquaintance, who I think is probably single but I don't know her well, friend of friends, was out with us tonight. She's a very flirty type, known for outrageous comments, but I thought harmless, tried to kiss me. She was a bit drunk, I pushed her away and said "I'm married" she said "I know, I don't care" I replied "well I do" I told our mutual friends what happened, left and got a taxi home.

If I tell DW I think it would play into her insecurities and cause real difficulties in me maintaining any form of social life beyond her (and she doesn't like going out) but if I don't tell her I'm keeping secrets and that's no better.

Any advice?

I'm not so much allowing her as haven't found a way to persuade her otherwise. I tell her she's out of order, that they'll resent it, it's intruding, we've raised children we can and should trust etc. But she's unmoved.

And that's why you should leave her. Because she doesn't give a shit about your or your views.

And yes, you are allowing her to do this to your children.

I really don't like the idea of keeping secrets but equally I agree that no good will come of it if I tell her.

I disagree, I think some good will come from it:

1. You will have told the truth- it won't nag at you and there is no chance of it coming out later.
2. It will show you can be trusted and give her the chance to trust you. If she can't act on that- they you are just delaying the inevitable.

Perhaps it will lead to a blazing row, but then that row is probably needed. Either you can resolve her control issues to something you can both live with, or you can't.

All that said, I'm not you- that's what I'd do, but you have to trust your own judgement more than some randomer who isn't there.

Of course you should tell her, I am sure you wouldnt like it if she kept such a secret from you.
Also your friends know, Secrets dont usually stay secret forever!
If you do then the fact you have told her counts for alot, You pushed the lady away, and werent interested, You also removed yourself from the situation and left, This all shows you are trustworthy and may help her realise that.

She does need to learn to trust you, Wanting to see your every move is really controlling.

If you do nothing else, please insist on stopping her tracking your adult children on their phones.

Leave and Take the children, her behaviour is damaging them

I second everyone who is telling you not to allow the phone tracking any longer. Stand up for your children.

Your original question was should you tell your wife and now you've told her, don't feel like you've got to explain yourself and marriage to a bunch of strangers with their own issues (unless you want to of course )

It seems you've been really unhappy so maybe a trial separation is in order.

You've tried repeatedly to talk to her and work things out and things are still the same.

There's not much left to do at this point other than just stay and accept things or leave.

I have to agree, the phone tracking is very controlling, and as the DC are older teenagers it really is very wrong, and quite creepy really. If they were 12 or 13 year olds it would be different.

Your DW's argument that she paid for the phones and therefore this gives her the right to use them this way reminds me of the sorts of things my abusive F used to say. He would say that because he and my DM had paid for the house, our bedrooms were really his and we had no right to privacy, hence he never knocked.

Are your DC allowed privacy in their own rooms, or is she controlling about that too?

You are in an abusive relationship OP, and it sounds like that abuse has been extended to your children.

When was the last time you were truly happy?

What pan says
You do realise you’re kids will be on here in a few years asking if it’s ok to go NC with their controlling mother?
Or their dps will have started a mil thread, and everyone will be saying go NC

And they’ll all say, their dad was some downtrodden man who lets her destroy him, and they can’t even speak to him because he never got them out of this misery.

Might not happen, but fucking hell there are a lot of those threads on here

It's not going to get better, OP. Take it from someone who was there. I spent years dealing with the anger, the rages, the jealousy, and the control. She was even jealous of our own kids (thought they and I were "too close" and that left her feeling left out). No matter how many concessions I made, she just demanded ever tighter control. And the rages got worse and worse, until - eventually - it became physical. I finally left her when she smashed a laptop over both my hands (literally - the screen shattered and it never worked again), and came within a whisker of breaking both my hands. All because she didn't want us going to my niece's 18th birthday party. It took 16 years to reach that point. The effects that her behaviour had on our kids have been long lasting, and have taken two years of me working on their confidence to improve.

Please, I know you want to fix your marriage. I know you think this is partly your fault. But she isn't abusing you because of what you've done. She's abusing you because she's an abuser. It's what they do. Please - seek help, and leave her.

As for the posters on here, who are blaming the OP for his wife's abuse - please take some time to reflect on your attitudes to domestic abuse. In the UK, around one in three of the people affected by domestic abuse are male. One in every three. Those men are far less likely than women to tell anybody about the abuse they are experiencing. That is in no small part due to the attitude of society, where many people dismiss male victims of this crime, or even tell them it's their own fault (as many of you have done). That isn't okay. You are part of the problem. Please take a moment to watch this video, and use it as an opportunity to reflect on your attitudes towards this horrific crime

I have to agree, the phone tracking is very controlling, and as the DC are older teenagers it really is very wrong, and quite creepy really. If they were 12 or 13 year olds it would be different.

Therein lies the problem in her eyes they are still her babies and she has serious difficulty accepting they are young adults.

I have made significant progress, arguing on their behalf, in that they are now allowed greater freedom to go out and make their own way home and she no longer goes through their phone, laptop and iPads which she used to on the premise of checking for inappropriate browsing, grooming or bullying. The kids are now far more tech aware than she is and she knows that, if they wanted to hide stuff from her (and maybe me) they could. They have total privacy in their bedrooms too. While they are home or she knows (can see) where they are then she's fine but the anxiety kicks in when she doesn't.

She was a wild child out getting pissed and hanging around with older blokes when she was 13/14. It's sickening to think but I know she had a sexual relationship with a 30 year old when she was 14, she has issues with her mother but she won't talk to me about them as its too painful (which is why she won't do counselling). I suspect that she blames her mother for letting her get into a situations which were almost certainly abusive and that her controlling nature is a product of her upbringing, she left home as soon as she could, and I believe that control and making things about her was to protect herself. It wasn't so bad when we got married, albeit she did manage to isolate me from my friendship group but actually that was common to most of the guys I was mates with so I didn't see it as unusual. I always knew that she didn't much like to compromise and mostly she got her own way, however, once we had children she became much more anxious and controlling.

One reason I'm unwilling to leave is I believe that her controlling nature is a product of things that she was not to blame for, she recognises that she is controlling and she is trying to address that nature, so long as counselling isn't involved. What this forum has done is educate me that it is not normal and embolden me to stand up for myself (and our DCs) albeit I wish I had done so many years ago.

As for that video, no I'm not a victim of DV. I'm a life long martial artist and wouldn't put up with any physical abuse.

One reason I'm unwilling to leave is I believe that her controlling nature is a product of things that she was not to blame for, she recognises that she is controlling and she is trying to address that nature, so long as counselling isn't involved.

That's never going to work. Why do you think she doesn't want counselling? Because it's going to address exactly the issues which she wants to avoid.

She may have had a difficult upbringing. But it's not your children's fault. You are sacrificing their wellbeing to her (distorted) peace of mind. You are an enabler.

I'm a life long martial artist and wouldn't put up with any physical abuse.

Allow me to seriously doubt that.

Being a lifelong martial artist may provide you with a foundation and other developments of physical self defense...so she knows to not get physical. One begs to wonder where the accompanying self esteem has gone in your case?

The fact that you admit to taking years to stick up for yourself on the emotional front is incongruous with your claims to defend yourself. She’s the Queen Bee and you are the Wanna Bee...she knows smack downs don’t have to be physical to have the power here.

She has set boundaries and rules to prevent her losing that power. The fact of her history does not require you to put up with all sorts. You have every right to set your boundaries, on behalf of yourself, or do it for your sons. Yes, dealbreaker boundaries. Would divorce be more painful than dealing with her issues? Let her decide.She won’t face her pain. She insists on carrying it around nonstop and splashes it on you and your boys so she won’t have to deal with it; all the while she could just drop the bucket and walk away from it. It’s called leaving the past in the past. But she won’t because she gets a hell of a lot of power over you for sustaining this dynamic. Enough is enough. Your boys know enough is enough and they probably can not wait for their emancipation.

She tells you no one would want you.
Repeatedly
She could have had the most fucked up childhood known to mankind, but that’s simply not on. And it’s no excuse.

Most abusive people I have come across have had some kind of trauma in their childhood. It took me years to realise this was not an excuse for their behaviour

I am a life long kick boxes.

If I wanted I could have easily put my exdh in hospital. He wasn't a fighter.

He still sexually assaulted me and raped me. Being able to defend yourself or even fight, doesn't protect you.

Hi HarmlessChap I’m sorry but this sounds absolutely miserable for you.

Is there any possibility that your wife has arranged for this woman to try it on with you to see what your reaction would be?

Lots of people have trackers on their kids phones (find my phone) especially when they first start driving. I don’t really see this as a major issue.

Coming at it from a different angle, and purely from my own experience. I was diagnosed as autistic at 38 and part of my behaviours are a need to control my environment to it makes sense. I organise everyone and everything so life is predictable and never realised why. I also hyper focus and worry similarly to your wife and used to have meltdowns that I wasn’t aware were meltdowns and just came across as me throwing my toys out all the time.

Women and girls present completely different on the autistic spectrum and it may be worth looking at some of the criteria. I will have a look for some of the sites and post them for you a bit later.

I hear what you're saying, @EmergencyNamePanic and I might have agreed if it weren't for the OP's DW telling him repeatedly that no one else would want him. That's not anxiety, that's just plain nasty.

That's not anxiety, that's just plain nasty.
I have some experience of extreme anxiety from my mother, and it can make you very nasty. You might be paranoid and think people are attacking you and you need to defend yourself. You might see every tiny rejection as a sign that people hate you because they know how awful you are, and lash out like a wounded animal. You might be so afraid that your partner will leave you (again proving what a cow you are) that you treat them with contempt because you really, really want it to be true that no-one else would have them.

I've suffered from anxiety myself and understand my mother very well, including her childhood experiences that made her what she is, but I still think my stepfather would be far better off without her, and I'm sorry he's had to put up with her shit for so long. If he wanted to leave I would support him absolutely, as he is a lovely person.

Unfortunately, my mother's paranoia is such that she would hate and distrust any therapist she had. And she would see therapy as admitting that she needed therapy, i.e. that she was a bad person. Which is something she presumably suspects is true herself, but can't face up to. And it's a vicious circle: she hates herself, so she lashes out, so she hates herself more.

I had similar feelings myself, though not as extreme as her. When my exh dumped me in an extremely unpleasant way (not related to the anxiety), I got therapy for that, and ended up working through all my other problems. I still suffer from anxiety but now I have the tools to manage it much better. In many ways I am glad that my exh dumped me; I had to face up to my demons, and they turned out to be far less terrifying than I'd imagined.

Harmless, with you helping her look the other way, your wife will never have to deal with her demons. They will keep on tormenting her forever. I know you want to be a good man, and you want to help her, but you know what they say about sometimes having to be cruel to be kind. Though in your case it would not even be cruel if you stopped putting up with it. It would be totally normal and understandable, and people would probably be happy for you.

You shouldn’t have told your friends. Don’t tell anybody anything.