Only two months married and miserable...

[Slundle]

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

• Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
• Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
• Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

@StormTreader

I don't know...I found messages recently from when we first got together and I couldn't get over how attentive H was. He was asking me if there was anything wrong with me earlier etc. I was saying, 'gawd no, I was just shy' (there were other people around). It struck me how sensitive and perceptive he was. I never remember him being that way. He's gotten so lazy.

A few guys I worked with commented that he took me for granted..this was years ago. H said they were the ones taking me for granted by never making a move and that they just felt jealous when he 'got' me.

My H isn't my intellectual equal though and I know that sounds awful but it's just the truth...he's smarter than me in some practical ways but it's been said to me by friends and family that I'm more intelligent, which hurts a little. One sister said to me years ago, 'do you think you're selling yourself short?' She claims to love him now so I've never brought that up. I've never heard anyone describe him as intelligent because he isn't conventionally intelligent. He's streetwise, motivated and self-confident and that has got him far...so it's funny, when you ask if he just doesn't get it, I often do wonder if he just doesn't...it's like there's something missing!

Having said that, when I do see the switch flick on around others, it hurts.

You make it sound as though being frequently shouted at is good enough reason in itself to check out

It is a good enough reason to check out.
You don’t even need a reason you know, you can leave because you want to! You can leave because you don’t get respect, or affection, you can leave simply because you don’t like him anymore, you can even leave just because you don’t like the smell of his farts!

You do not have to justify why you are leaving him to yourself, to him, or to anyone.

Is being shouted at what you were put on this Earth for?

It is nothing to do with intelligence how you treat your partner, it is about courtesy and respect.
My ex was trained to post-doctoral level, didn’t make him any less abusive.

An odd response about your workmates. They presumably treated you professionally and respected you, hence not making a move. I mean, you don’t expect your workmates to make a play for you, unless the feeling is mutual. A more normal response would be to ask really, why? Why do they think that? And try to understand why they had that view of him from HIS own behaviour, not turn it round on them being jealous (how does that even make sense?) and you should be flattered somehow.

Hmmm that's true KataraJean. The thing is H never seems to reflect and think, 'gosh maybe I do' etc. It's always something wrong with the other person etc.

Thanks, UnderHerEye but I really feel like I'd need a really good reason to end a marriage. Standing up there in front of all of my friends, family, colleagues and his and saying vows and to go back on that...I still want to believe those vows mean something, so therefore, leaving would be significant. I'm chilling on this front but I cannot get across just how distraught, embarrassed and upset my parents would be if my marriage broke down...it'd be a big deal...also, I don't think I could ever tell them how H treats me. They love him and it's just too complicated with the way my F acted when I was younger...

mathanxiety, I like to think I was put on this earth for lots of good reasons - to do good is the main one. Being shouted at and existing in a suffocating relationship probably wasn't top of the list! Someone said earlier upthread that I'm so far from getting what a normal relationship is. I'm beginning to accept that's true but I'm worried I'll never figure out or have the opportunity to have a 'normal' relationship.

It is nothing to do with intelligence how you treat your partner, it is about courtesy and respect.
My ex was trained to post-doctoral level, didn’t make him any less abusive.

Thanks for this. I know...I suppose sometimes I like to think there's less behind the abuse in H's case. Yes he shouts and yes, he can be manipulative...actually, I'm halfway through this sentence and I'm struggling to believe myself. You're right. Here I go making excuses again.

You get one chance at life Slundle.

You are not responsible for your parents' equilibrium. You are not responsible for your friends' feelings or for the feelings of your congregation.

There are a few problems in your approach.

• You have a very low level of trust in the capacity of people to deal with events all by themselves and come to the right, humane conclusion.

You need to get over the desire to keep a lid on people. Ypu need to get past your fears. Let them pontificate. Let them stand there open mouthed. People will get past this.

Don't waste your life trying to avoid other people's reactions. Don't waste your life trying to earn your parents' approval or their love. Don't waste it trying to avoid coming face to face with their rejection.

• The other problem is the hope that you can keep on making them happy, or make them love and accept you. It led you to walk right into the prison of marriage. You wanted to be the daughter you believed they wanted - ring on finger, nice bloke, the MRS to your name.

Don't stay bound to this poisonous hope.

You owe no debt to anyone.

You talk about ‘if’ your marriage breaks up...but surely it’s ‘when’? This cannot last, it will only get worse. How much of yourself will you give before it ends? Would your parents prefer for you to stay with an abusive man indefinitely just because they would be upset if you were to get divorced?

Slightly flippant comment - I have no idea what a normal relationship feels like, really. I was reflecting on your comment that you might not ever get the opportunity to experience that. And it made me a bit because I realised that was true for me too. I am single, hands very full with DC, job, garden, life, still dealing with ex’s shenanigans... I think I may have missed the normal relationship train.

Then I thought nope, I am not giving up on the thought that I will have a courteous gentleman friend in my 60s for countryside jaunts to tea shops. He will not talk down at me or over me or complain if I am quiet. He will not laugh at how I pronounce words or how often I look at flowers. He will not demand to be hugged or kissed when I hate that kind of affection in public. He will not talk with food in his mouth or be rude to table staff. He will have a kind and gentle manner, let me drive his car sometimes and be educatedly unassuming. Mostly, he will have a sense of humour which is dry and understated and get my jokes. He needs to get my jokes. He will ‘get’ who I am, not who he wants me to be. And vice versa of course. He will have qualities I have not even thought of, I am sure.

I see him in my mind’s eye visiting me as I potter around in my garden. And until then, the world is full of things to do, so that if I never meet him, or anyone like him, I know not to give up my freedom for someone or something which does not make me happy.

Aside from that, yes, if you are kidding yourself, don’t write it. Here you can write the truth. mathanxiety is right, you are not responsible for every one else’s well-being. You cannot control that.

Aw KataraJean, that's fab. What a lovely picture you paint. It reminded me of that quote about how life is what happens when you're making plans ...

FaithEverPresent I'm finding it hard to say 'when' as I still have a glimmer of hope but if it continues as is & if H doesn't get help/reach out, then I suppose it'll become 'when.'

Mathanxiety, I know, I can sometimes have a low level of trust in people because I felt badly let down by a couple of friends the last time H and I broke up. Having said that, other friends were supportive ...

I think, if we were to split right now, I'd have initial relief but I'd fall back in to loneliness. H has a much wider circle because we live in his neck of the woods. I actually think he'd be okay ... I think the repercussions for me would be worse. Anyhow, I don't know how it could happen even practically ... I'm biding my time.

I do feel guilty though. I feel guilty being in a marriage when I've one foot out of it and even posting on this...it feels like some kind of betrayal but the reality is I need a sounding board & some feedback...thanks.

Update ... another 'argument.' Separate bedrooms again. His choice. i feel abandoned & like begging for forgiveness. I won't though. I feel my marriage is worse since I started posting here. Im struggling to fake it any more. Tonight's fight wasn't as outlandish on his part. I got upset because he asked me something very obvious about me . I won't say what it was but basically it's like there's no build up of knowledge about me. I could be lying in bed beside someone who met me a month ago. I probably should have held my tongue but I was a bit upset. I was quiet and sad about it, not angry but it can't have felt nice for him. He shouted 'what the f**k's wrong with you? I just asked a question. I was trying to be nice.' He then said lying beside me was the worst part of his day :-( I said 'thanks.' What do you say to that? :-( I feel a bit bad as I started this one. I just wish I felt like he knew or got me.

So sorry to hear that, Slundle.

It sounds like when he’s upset, it’s your fault and you feel bad. Then when you’re upset, it’s still your fault and you still feel bad. Do you ever actually get to tell him that he’s upset you, without it coming back to it being your fault and you having to apologise?

I also know what you mean about it feeling like a ‘betrayal’ to post here - I couldn’t even bring myself to post anywhere about my ex because it made me feel so guilty. I bitterly regret that because I can see that if I’d spoken to someone sooner, I might actually have saved myself years of misery by waking up to his behaviour a lot earlier. So please don’t stop posting here. Just remember you are allowed to have feelings and you are allowed to express them to other people. He doesn’t get to dictate who you can speak to or what you can say.

Your marriage hasn't got worse. You are simply opening your eyes to the reality of it. Which, to be honest is probably why you started to post.

It is actually a good thing although you are feeling worse. It means you are starting to get out of the fog. I hope you manage some sleep.

It's upsetting to hear your account, above, and you just not seeing the very obvious abuse from H. He is vile but you just don't see it and blame yourself.

That great happiness on your wedding day? He got you, he won, he trapped you. (You may not see that now but I hope you do soon). All that niceness and attentiveness at the beginning was him weaving his web.

You'll think I'm cynical.

Because your mum modeled accommodating a rank bully, you have gone on to marry someone just like the man she married (your dad). If you stay with your H it follows that any future daughters will follow your example and go on to marry a horrible bully, just like you have.

Or any future son will be the bully his father has modeled, bullying his future wife the way his father bullies you.

And so it goes on

That won't happen Sprinydaff ... we haven't had sex once since I posted here.

I'm fighting every urge in me to apologise.

Thanks for your responses . It's good to feel there's someone out there.

I do think my marriage is most likely doomed. There's a lot that I can't post here about his life & mine. There's a lot that I could technically gain by us being together but the day to day reality ain't great.

P.s. I don't mean materially by the way...it's more support etc . I'm tired & sad & feel like I need to pull myself together.

Or go to sleep (((hug)))

You won't sort out one thing this time of night so turn your head off and hit the sack girl xx

True. Thanks.

Get some sleep! Things will always look clearer and more hopeful in the morning

I feel like my parents are similar to yours (they're religious and very much authority figures) & no matter what, they would NOT want their child to be treated like this by their husband. Or anyone! You're discounting their support already but if you revealed the true nature of H they could become a support for you

And even if they're not, and care more about what the neighbours think than their child, then you know that your life going forward will NOT revolve around making them surface level happy with compromises.

It's scary but leaving H will make you shake up your friend and family circles and you will know who has your back and how to build your life only with the people who will help and support you going forward

You didn't start this latest argument.

You responded as you felt appropriate to an inappropriate remark addressed to you.

You are allowing everybody else in your world to have feelings - your H, your parents, your friends, your congregation. Your H will not allow you to have any.

Importantly, you will not allow yourself to have any either. I get the impression that you have apologised to your H many times for the crime of expressing feelings. This is because abuse has conditioned you to try to contain every situation that others choose and cause.

Just because someone else expresses anger doesn't mean you have caused that. Your H has many choices of potential response to you. He chose tonight's outcome. Please do not apologise any more for anything you say.

You have decided that it would be the end of the world if your parents were to find out that you have feelings other than the ones you assume they assume you have. This is what abused people do - they feel they must control the responses of others and they hide themselves deep in a hole.

Women's Aid:
0808 2000 247

They will help you take the risks you are avoiding so strenuously.

Slundle I have read all your posts this evening and I feel so sad for you. You literally only have one life.

Stop hoping things will get better it is only putting you on a roller coaster of emotions. Things are continuously shit for you. He won't change. If you have a baby it will be hell on earth for you, him and the baby.

He will relentlessly bully any child he has and he will always bully you. Your sisters are getting on with their lives. Your life remains static, everyone else is moving on. I hear genuine pain in your posts but nothing is going to change for you. Start to accept that. This is the life you are choosing.

Hoping against hope is demoralising you. The fluctuations you go through are exhausting. Just accept things as they are. Your mental and physical health won't hold out under the strain. In some strange way you accept things the way they are. You are chosing to remain stuck in this situation.

I honestly wish things were different for you. You sound like a gorgeous person, kind, funny, intelligent and interesting. I know that you know this deep down.

You can't keep going around and around. Accept you won't leave him and allow yourself to find some peace. Martyrdom is maybe your thing.

I wish things could change for you but they never will as long as you keep putting yourself last. By the way the newsflash that you one day leave your abysmal marriage will last about 12 hours and 95% of the people hearing the news will be delighted for you. You could get a divorce (yes you!) and get a settlement and afford somewhere to live (maybe tiny but happy).

You only have one life but I know that you won't change. I am a complete stranger and I care more about you than your husband does. I beg you to get out and live your life.

and I agree with the above poster, you didn't start the argument. H decided to have a one sided argument and yell at you.

Any plusses or positives you have described (which are paltry, small, barely should be counted) don't outweigh the misery. The worry, the looking over your shoulder when you come hoping, hoping H will have a 'good' evening and not yell at you over the tiniest things. Waking up in the morning and hoping that H doesn't yell at you as you get ready for work.

Like the above poster said, everyone else is allowed to have feelings, but you're not? Your parents will get over it, your family will deal, your friends will recover... it's harsh but everyone thinks of themselves in the end. Even your parents will stop thinking about this long enough to think about what to have for dinner and if they need the toilet.

Everyone else thinks of themselves in the end and now it's time you start thinking of yourself too.

I also agree that he started the argument because he could have just said ‘oh, sorry, I should have remembered’. Instead he swore at you and also turned the cursing into a general comment about you (‘what is wrong with you? - not ‘silly me, why don’t I remember these things’)

Bidermann’s chart of coercion - induced exhaustion and debility. He has made assertions about something being wrong with you, and then said sleeping next to you was the worst part of the day. He was then presumably sleeping quite well in the spare room whilst you were awake and upset at 1.30, and probably longer.

Monopolisation of perception - trying to work out that you did not start the argument takes up mental energy you could be spending on other things.

1. Degradation - put downs - he has put you down by forgetting something he should know, making your reasonable objection to this about there being something wrong with you, and then made a horrible comment about sleeping next to you.

I agree partly that it has not got worse - you are seeing more clearly what it is like and recognising it is not right (or your fault). However, my own experience was that when I stopped complying, it did get worse. Whether that was because he ramped it up to get the same response he had got more easily before, or I was recognising what had already been there, I don’t know.

I hope you got some sleep. Take care

As you look more into domestic abuse you will see there is a strong addictive element for the victim -

The abuser see-saws between unbelievably lovely, kind and wonderful - which gets switched off to abusive: the target pines to bask in the kindness and loveliness again. The abuser has set up this dynamic, literally established an addictive cycle in the target.

It is probably why you pined when you were apart, or got switched on so easily when he reappeared in all his loveliness.

You happen to have had your eyes opened about the abuse just a few months after your wedding. As hard as this is for you, you are entirely not at fault; you have been caught in the grip of a malevolent system designed to undermine you, your mental and emotional health, your sense of self.

Does he fully know he's doing it? The jury's out on that (imo) but he knows enough to stop it but he doesn't. And research shows he simply won't.

Some good posts here (Katara, I love the 60-year old gentlemen caller in your future).

Slundle, it strikes me that you're still prioritising the appearance of being happy over actually being happy. I'm not underestimating the difficulty. Soon after I left my ex, my dad had a stroke, and my mother told me it was the stress of my situation that brought it on. (Although to be fair, he couldn't stand my ex and it was the relationship rather than the split that caused the stress). I can't say that that period of my life was a bundle of laughs. But we're a decade down the road, my dad has made a full recovery, I have an excellent relationship with my parents and a happy life with dd. No man on the scene, but Katara's vision of the future inspires me with hope.

If you leave, there will be a period when everything will feel like shit. But it will pass, I promise, and much much quicker than you think.