Only two months married and miserable...

[Slundle]

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

• Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
• Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
• Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

Counsellors have called him abusive. Many on here have. Again. Why not look at/ contact WA. And he is abusive. That is why you are questioning yourself. The longer you stay the worse it will be. My experience was that only after being free could I start to see how bad it had been.

that the OP and her husband 'do not get along as they should' is something of an understatement, Scarlet

Even just going by the opening post, which you refer to, Slundle says the following:

• “we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up” Let’s assume Slundle is an intelligent woman, and she broke up with the man for a reason, not just woke up and thought, nah, fancy the single life… Nope, Slundle says that she does not want to be single.
• She says he scoffs and shouts when she raises issues, and her stress levels are through the roof.
• She also says that her husband has used things raised in counselling as ammunition against her.

With that information, all in the opening post, your advice is to find a different couples counsellor and ‘stick with’ counselling this time. The reasoning? Slundle has spent twelve years of her life on this man already, why not spend several more?? What, being stressed, shouted at, and having things you have said used against you, and hoping you find a counsellor who can find the magic words which Slundle has failed to in twelve years to convert this man to a decent husband. He has had twelve years to change, four separations to consider why Slundle keeps wanting to walk (remember, Slundle does not want to be single, she is not fickle), but magically somehow there is a counsellor out there, who if Slundle just sticks with it, will sort it all out.

Forgive me, but that is such bad advice, even going on the opening post alone.

I am sorry for talking about you, not to you, Slundle, but there will be women in your situation reading this, and thinking if I just do this, or do this, or try this one more thing, it will be fine. Because it is easier to blame yourself and look for the fault in yourself than to recognize and acknowledge that the man you love is abusing you.
It makes no difference to my life whether you stay in this marriage, or leave. You have said you are not ready to leave. There is no-one on here that can tell you different, but Gruffalina72 gave some excellent advice if you do get to that stage. I also think you should definitely start to work on your own social life, and carve out a bigger space for yourself in the world, which does not revolve around him, and his tempers.

Finally, the normal reaction to being told you are abusive, is surely not ‘well, report me then’, but to apologise and try to make it better, try to understand how your behavior is damaging. And the fact that this all exhausts you? Go back to Bidermann’s chart of coercion, the section on the perpetrator causing exhaustion and debility, and also the bit about him monopolizing your perception. You need to start putting up some boundaries around your mental and physical well-being.

I have written enough, so I will leave it there. Take care

I don't shout at him. I've asked him repeatedly over years to stop raising his voice at me but he doesn't. It improved a little after one break up where he screamed at me while I was driving for taking a wrong turn. Tbh, I spoke to my cousin at the weekend and she thinks he has a lot of anger towards a lot of people but he takes it all out on me.

when is a person 'short tempered' which my H indisputably is and when is it abusive?

it is abusive when his wife writes this, and this is only some of it:

"he shouts and curses at me and often shouts me down when I try to express myself back. He has a temper …. .he's definitely angry at me … we literally cannot resolve anything unless I approach it like I would with a child … he told me he's only angry because of me. He said I bring out this temper … he said my emotional neediness is just too much to take …
..we could most likely have a fine life together if I just let everything go..

He was very proactive in chasing me … he 'emotionally bulldozed' me … he told me he cried every week and that he lost weight etc. He seemed like the victim…. He also made me feel most unwelcome and kept mentioning how his routine had been disrupted
...he shouted at me in public a few times back then. Now it's all very much behind closed doors and like I said, I'm not a shrinking violet in a relationship but I feel like I'm being worn down.

...we fight about him being late, not telling me he's been delayed when I already have dinner on the table, about me making too much noise tossing and turning in the bed at night (I'm a bad sleeper), about me not exercising enough, where to live longterm. … I simply calmly said his name and asked him to stop. He flipped out and shouted at me. Then, oftentimes, the shoe is on the other foot..if I as much as blink in bed, he flips out. … I brought up the wedding and how I spent the whole thing walking around alone. At one point, I turned around and he was dancing with a colleague of his who I've always been insecure about… He got extremely angry at me for bringing up the past, albeit only two months ago. He said I was depressed and locked in negative ways of thinking.

He thinks we should always move on and never dwell on the past.
I know he's judging me. Even today, I tried to calmly talk about our situation but he made a comment about how I've wasted the evening moping, …

He did nothing for my birthday

he shuts down and often leaves the room or the house"

That is not just a short temper, and that is only part of what you wrote. I am sorry to quote it back at you, but what would you say to a friend who told you this? 'Oh, he just has a bit of a temper'? I don't think you would. You would think she deserved more from her husband, and you would be right.

That’s two posters now who have openly admitted that they haven’t bothered to read the thread but then offered their opinion that OP’s relationship is probably fine and not abusive. Why? Why?? When it’s something this sensitive and potentially even dangerous, WHY would you take the time to post something like that without even bothering to read any of the subsequent posts? Just because the OP doesn’t explicitly mention the word ‘abuse’ in the first post doesn’t mean you can just assume everything’s hunky dory. It’s spectacularly arrogant to come on to a 17-page thread, especially one like this in Relationships, and just weigh in while disregarding any subsequent developments that might have happened since the OP.

I can only assume the people here rushing to tell Slundle to stick with her husband are the same kinds of people making her hesitate to leave him in real life

Anyway sorry for the rant, Slundle! That just really wound me up. And sorry I haven’t been posting here for a few days, I’m away on holiday but I am still following the thread whenever I can and I’m rooting for you. I do hope things get better for you soon but please stay alert and aware of everything that’s happening. Don’t let the wool get pulled back over your eyes

I keep doing x-posts. To your last post, you are not a punch bag for him to take his anger out on. It is that simple.

Thanks . I appreciate all of your input and I can see how the water can get muddy.

What worries me the most is that i couldn't tell people about what goes on. That makes me think it's wrong. I'm not sure it has always Beeb abusive but it certainly has started to feel that way. I have been worn down. I was screamed at on Friday for looking for reassurance for a favour I was doing for him. He was angry at me for making noise with the hairdryer! He gets angry a lot & I can almost see a switch flick when we're around others. I know that's all wrong. It's not a great relationship. It does have good points but I feel like my needs are of little significance. I broke down a few weeks ago & told him how unhappy I was. Nothing changed. It was only when I spoke of breaking up this weekend that he took note.

It's messed up & im ashamed of letting him treat me badly. I think he has too. Early on, we had an argument that I mentioned before. He used the same language his brother had used to him that day. He said 'go suck on it' in anger. I never should have stood for that.

When I started thinking it was abusve was when he pulled the duvet off me in anger. That scared me actually. I don't live in fear but I feel it's wrong on many levels.

I just saw your posts now KataraJean & lisasimpsonsaxophone... thank you. I can't believe all of that and that it's true.

You're right. I would never tell a friend it's okay and I would demand more for her. There was a time when I think I expected more for myself too ...

Despite everything I've written, I still really care so deeply for him. I'm extremely attached to him and I feel protective of him. As someone said, what a mess!

Thanks for the support.

Enjoy your holiday @lisasimpsonsaxophone

Sorry to others if I offended anyone with my post. I genuinely did not see the opening post or first pages of further posts by OP as abusive - but accept that others have more experience of this than me. OP- thanks for your reply. I think if he is punching walls then that is very worrying. I hope you are able to find the support you need.

Sadly if you want to escape you will have to so regardless of whether you still love him. Feeling protective of abusers, and wanting to help them is not unusual either by the way.

If you wait till you really don't care...Well one that day may not come and two you will have wasted years, possibly brought DC into the toxic mix and probably be in a less secure situation financiallly.

Slundle.

The fact you are here posting is really good, come back and read the thread when things get tough, look at the words from posters who have told you that you don’t deserve to be treated this way, you are special, you are unique, you are worthy of love, and you deserve a better life than the one you are living now.

Two things I want to add. Firstly you talk about the couple you lived with and how respectful and attentive they were to each other - this is what a normal healthy relationship looks like! It’s not ‘emotionally needy’ to want respect and affection - it is all of our base desire! You are not emotionally needy, you are just human!

The second thing I want to say is that you talk about Hs short temper a lot, you say he is nice but has a temper etc. There is no such thing as a ‘nice man with a temper’, they are actually ‘bullying bastards’, he is being a nasty shit to you for no reason other than he can, ask yourself why doesn’t he lose his temper with anyone else.

Sorry if that came across as quite aggressive but I just had to get it off my chest!

Please stick with the wonderful posters here, pop in and post when you need to. I think it’s fair to say we are all thinking of you, we are all with you.

He has trained you to feel responsible for his emotions.

Practice letting him be pissed off. Do nothing to mollify him. Carry on with your life regardless. Go out if his mood annoys you.

Seriously, on a small scale every day let him be pissed off and let yourself act as if his emotion / situation is entirely his to deal with (which it is).

Break that puppy training he did on you so effectively but do it with baby steps for now.

Eventually learn that you can be happy even if he is not.

Of course you feel attached, you've spent years with him. That said, YOU are not responsible for his anger. His anger is his choice and his feeling and he is choosing to be angry at you. I'm afraid this will not end until you leave. You have threatened leaving and broken down and told him of your misery and he only paid attention when it looked like his punching bag (you) might leave.

I'm as single as anything & I can assure you that life by yourself is far preferable to being a man's verbal punching bag. You are not his wife, his partner or his love, you are his servant and outlet for his emotions, his human punching bag

You deserve and can have more in your life, I promise.

And I can tell you it's normal to scream at another person for making a wrong turn, drying their hair, coughing in bed etc. It's really unnatural and bad and his anger problem is abusive. People take the rough with the smooth - shitty things happen and you deal with them. You don't blame someone else and scream just because one little thing is wrong.

DH has raised his voice with me once in 10 years of marriage. I was very clear that my expectations are that issues should be raised and discussed as adults. If you need more time on your own to think about it, that is fine. It is never acceptable to scream at your OH.

Run as fast as you can.

*not normal

It's really not normal to scream at someone for tiny human slip ups. Everyone has moments where they forget to buy loo roll, miss their exit while driving, accidentally bump into someone etc... your partner isn't there to batter you over the head for mistakes everyone makes, he should be a support and instead he's your source of stress

Despite everything I've written, I still really care so deeply for him. I'm extremely attached to him and I feel protective of him.

Yes, all of us in relationships like this feel deeply attached and deeply caring toward our partner. You're not alone in this.

Do the Freedom Programme . Go along to the course. It's free and it's a wonderful course, I can't recommend it highly enough. It's good to go along rather than doing it online imo - something about meeting with others in the same position.

Many of us on here have been where you are now. It's such a hard time, I remember it clearly and my heart goes out to you

The hardest part is caring for yourself and your future life more than you care about him/wish to remain as his punchbag.

Do you think any of the women posting here did not care? Or did not want their families to work out? Or want their husbands to treat them better, to accept some responsibility and stop the control and bullying?

The thing that gets you out the door is not stopping caring, but that bit of your own self which is not extinguished yet and knows that you are worth more than this.

Not everyone leaves. WA will talk to you even if you don’t leave.

The hardest part is caring for yourself and your future life more than you care about him/wish to remain as his punchbag.

I could not agree more with this, especially those last 6 words. Mentally print this off and keep on going back to it.

You're hoping for him to change. He hasn't changed in 12 years. Are you prepare to wait 12 more? How about 24?

Have you heard of the concept of malignant optimism?

And the sunk costs fallacy seems applicable too.

This is a bloody miserable way to live just to stop the neighbours gossiping and to avoid your ever having to feel guilty or lonely.

Thanks for all of your comments & advice. I agree re sunken costs fallacy & malignant optimism. I just can't get my head around what I was thinking when I decided to get married...

Things are lovely so far this week (today & yesterday & we've barely seen each other). I blow-dried my hair in the other room this morning & he wasn't cranky afterwards. That's my idea of 'lovely': not being yelled at.

I think I've known a long time, maybe always, that the yelling wasn't normal...a friend of mine described H as laid back & I didn't have the heart to tell her he's not laid back at home.

There was manipulation from the start, before we even started going out. My sister picked up on some of it & even though We passed it off as a joke, I'd say she wasn't overly impressed. I can't get in to it here but basically he misrepresented himself a little to hook me...we laughed about it but I wonder about how I've laughed at things that aren't funny.

I'm starting to feel a little angry. He's being 'nice' (pleasant...nothing over the top, just not an ass!) but I feel so much intimacy has broken down at this stage from all the verbal abuse that I don't know if there's any going back for me now. There really has been so much verbal abuse. I think I've changed in this relationship & im almost turned off ever having another one.

Futile as this thinking is, why oh why oh why didn't I come to this realisation before marrying him! I'm actually furious with myself over this.

Want2bSupermum

It sounds like you're on to a winner with your husband! That sounds amazing! Thanks for your message. I feel I've been trying to justify all of this to myself. You make it sound as though being frequently shouted at is good enough reason in itself to check out. I feel sorry for H that he's that bad at processing emotion that he needs to shout but it's proving impossible to negotiate any difficulties etc with him when he shouts at most anything ...

I always vowed I'd never marry a man with a temper. This led me to choosing highly sensitive men in the past. One was so sensitive he bawled crying regularly & never stood up for himself or others ... there is a happy medium out there maybe!

The thing with waiting for a light-bulb moment is the constant underlying assumption that they just don't know what they're doing. I think that most of the time, they know exactly what they are doing and carry on as-is because how things currently are is actually working beautifully for them - they're getting exactly what they want out of life which is to say and do whatever they bloody well like all the time and leave you to pick up the mess and beg for forgiveness. That "switch" that you see flicking on around other people? That's the self-control and self-awareness that they claim they don't have when it's just you. It's the class bully quieting down when the teacher walks in the room. It's the knowledge there may be CONSEQUENCES for behaving as badly as they usually do.

There must come a point where you've shown them, told them, talked to them so much - you've turned on the light-switch so many times - that when they are protesting that they just don't SEE it, the only answer left is that they are wilfully keeping their eyes closed. The alternative is that they are too stupid to understand basic ideas that are explained to them, does that sound likely?