Only two months married and miserable...

[Slundle]

I can't actually believe I'm writing this post but I feel like I have to be honest somewhere...

I got married two months ago to my longterm boyfriend. We're longterm but we broke up about four times over the course of 12 years. Every time we broke up, it was me who did the breaking up.

So, married life has been terrible. Quite simply, we are not getting along. I find my husband notoriously difficult to communicate with. Regardless of what the issue is, his way of dealing with it is to scoff and shout. It's gotten to the stage where I'm not sure if I even like him all that much. We get on fine when everything is perfect but we all know, life isn't perfect.

I know it'd be easy for one of you to write 'leave him' but it really isn't that simple. We had a long, tough break-up before. I felt so brave and empowered but I came crawling back to him because I genuinely felt so lonely and I knew he loved me. I suffered with loneliness and anxiety. It's not easy being single in a couples' world. He also used the line 'I want to take care of you.' I do wonder if I'm demanding in an emotional sense (I'm not materialistic but I can be needy and he has told me that. Unfortunately I agree).

We tried couples' counselling before we married and the counsellor did not work for us...when I went for individual counselling, they very much urged me to leave him. Yet in couples' counselling, with a different counsellor, it felt like she very much took his side and felt sorry for him that I had broken it off in the past. I know there shouldn't be sides in counselling but it really felt that way...each session was like her counselling him and I was more or less in the background...he has used that as ammunition against me.

Anyway, there's a lot of detail left out here but the reason I'm posting is I would really like to hear from people in similar situations:

• Have any of you had a rocky start to marriage?
• Have any of you managed to turn your marriage around?
• Did any of you end a marriage where there was no-one else involved (I know it's common to leave someone for someone else but I'm just genuinely very unhappy).

Anyhow, thanks for reading. I really appreciate that. My stress levels have gone through the roof and I'm angry at myself for letting my life turn out this way. As far as my friends and family are concerned, I'm happy as Larry. If only they saw the daily arguing that goes on behind closed doors.

This might sound counterintuitive, but I'm not sure a few nights in a hotel is necessarily the best plan.

a) It won't feel the same as if you do leave, because you'll know the whole time you have to go back, even if just to collect your things.

b) If you do decide you're ready to leave, you will then have to go back and see him and deal with him and be around him.

Whereas if you decide to leave now (for instance) you'll have the strength of having made the decision and it won't get any harder; you'll be able to go from your point of deciding straight to walking away - rather than deciding, then having to go back and be around him again, and only then being able to walk away.

I've been pondering your earlier comment about how none of this feels liberating. It took me back to how I felt when I was wrestling with whether to leave, how to leave, if I could leave, when I would leave...

I'm writing this from the perspective of giving you tools to prepare yourself, and also maybe so you might be a little less hard on yourself.

I was so desperate to have that sense of freedom and liberation from what I was leaving behind. I had gotten as far as realising it was necessary, and I just wanted the weight to lift.

In the days after leaving I felt in turmoil. I had wanted to feel free, but I didn't. At first, I thought it was a sign I had made a terrible mistake, but luckily I had good support and they helped me understand that wasn't true.

It took time, but the sense of liberation, and feeling unburdened by the mistakes and all that has happened since you met him, it gradually creeps into your life. You'll be having an ordinary day and then suddenly on the way home from work you'll realise how much lighter you feel now you're not dreading what mood he's in. Or you'll do something nice for yourself without worrying about being shouted at.

The first weeks after leaving felt bleak and desperate and awful. I felt irreparably broken.

I don't feel like that anymore. I do feel free. I don't feel guilty anymore, I can step back and look at what went on compassionately, the way somebody else looking in would.

I'm a hopeless gardener, but I've spent today messing about in the garden, trying to pot some plants up, popping in and out, sitting out there thinking, going out for a wander... This is probably not a great example, as I'd be outing myself if I shared anything bigger, but my point is I never could have done that before without being put down, or shouted at, or told off for making a mess, or criticised for not cleaning the house instead. So if I had dared to do even one of those things I would have been anxious and on edge the whole time.

Today I did all those things and felt light and free and content. I was able to make my own choices without needing to be perfect or worry about his temper.

You have to ride out some storms first, but the better times do come.

I used to have a mantra when I felt too scared to keep going: "I survived all the things he did to me, so I can survive leaving him. I can survive this."

Your cousin is a dangerously stupid fool. And she's a counsellor. God help us. Having a baby is one of the most stressful things you can do. It puts a strain on even strong relationships.

OP, if you've been together 12 years and split up 4 times and you're arguing every day, I'd throw in the towel.

Life's NOT meant to be like this. Especially newly married life.

You're in a toxic relationship.

You can escape and make a new life and be happier. It's not a couples world! More people are single today than ever before.

I can't work out how to link to a specific post in another thread, so I'm just going to copy and paste this in. Some of it repeats what is already on this thread, but it talks about the process of coming to terms with the idea of leaving and then turning it into a reality:

"I'm sorry, but you can't change someone who is abusing you. It's just not how it works.

I don't know if it would help to hear this, but it took me nearly a year from realising I was being abused to actually leaving. The day I left I was absolutely distraught and guilt stricken. I felt like the WORST person who had ever lived and that I was terrible for leaving him, and oh maybe if I can stay I can fix things, etc. For safety reasons I planned my escape and left when he was away so he didn't know.

But I left. I almost didn't. But I forced myself to imagine how I would feel if I stayed, what life would be like, and that felt even worse than all the guilt and panic and grief for the relationship I'd hoped for. I realised the only way I could ever have a future where I stood a chance of happiness and safety, I had to leave.

So I just wanted to say I understand why you currently feel unable to leave. It is a process. But if you're able to recognise that you need to leave and why (because he is abusing you and will not change), then you have taken the first step.

The first step is recognising you need to work towards leaving. You don't have to know when. You don't need to know how. But you need that idea planted and growing in your mind.

Information is power. Stay safe, and keep it to yourself, but start gathering information.

I began by searching for answers to all the practical questions I had. I started investigating where I could live and working out a budget. I got a storage locker and slowly and carefully moved my most precious things into it. As time went on I added practical things for my new life.

I got a place on the Freedom Programme. They were a huge source of emotional and practical support to me. The information I learned there about abuse helped me to understand the full extent of what had been happening to me and how wrong it was. It helped me understand how different life could be.

That information gave me strength and confidence that I was doing the right thing. The women there encouraged me by sharing their stories of life since leaving. They reminded me I didn't deserve to live that way and it wasn't my fault.

I allowed myself to imagine what my new life would be like after I left. I dreamt about the beautiful colours I would be able to have in my new home. I imagined not having to walk on eggshells anymore.

I confided in my (female) GP. She listened to me and supported me.

I learnt how to safely cover my tracks. I got a second SIM card so I could have a safe number. I prepared an emergency bag in case things got worse and I had to leave without warning. I kept my passport and other documents safe.

I talked to samaritans and supportive people online. I talked to my GP. I saw a counsellor, who told me it was ok if I wasn't ready to leave yet. That I had to be ready to leave so that I didn't end up going back. That she had confidence I would be able to do it.

And then one day, everything was in place. I had a new home worked out, I had as many belongings ready as I could, I had solved the practical problems I hadn't been sure about, I had a plan for how I would pack up the rest of my stuff and leave while he was away... And I was terrified. I still wanted to believe things would change so I wouldn't have to do it, even though I knew it would never happen.

It took me a couple more months, and then I realised the only thing holding me back was the fear. So I set a date for when I knew he was away and I could move. And I made myself do it.

I won't pretend it was immediately wonderful afterwards. I struggled. It was a shock. I was grieving for the life we should have had. I leant on the places and people who'd provided support. When I wobbled and started talking about going back (mostly from guilt and fear rather than any expectation it would be better if I did) they talked me down. The FP also helped me prepare for how he would respond after I left so I didn't fall for his manipulation.

But things got better after the first two or three months. A weight lifted. I started making plans for happy things in my future (just small things). I saw a counsellor who was trained in abuse and gave me a lot of confidence back. She and the FP helped me feel safe to start to trust other people by teaching me how to identify different styles of abuse early on. (Different abusers adopt different tactics and different styles.)

Things can and will get better for you, but first you have to jump through those flames to get away from him. I know it's tough, and it's ok if it takes you a bit of time to be ready. But you can do it, and your life will get better. So much better than you can imagine right now."

Beautiful and wise posts Gruffalina72 I relate to some of your experiences, nothing like as difficult for me to leave but you're right, after a while life just seems to have the brightness setting turned up a few notches, whatever else had to be dealt with.

Thanks a million...it's hard to seriously contemplate leaving when I just got a benign text from H about household issues!

My cousin did ring today and I gave her some examples of what's been happening. She was quite shocked and surprised and was talking about how lovely he is and all the nice things he did for her the last time she saw him etc. She was kind of in disbelief. That's the sucky thing too. Lots of people, even friends, won't believe me. But anyhow... She did say though that she feels he needs therapy a lot more than I do. I'll be sticking with therapy though, that's for sure. I feel like I've wasted a portion of my life and I don't want to let that trajectory play out again and again.

There are some other examples of control all right and they're about much bigger issues but I can't really go in to them here...but I feel like I have limited input in to how the rest of my life is going to go if I spend it with him. But I won't lie to you, I have a crushing feeling of guilt and of hurting him...I've been there before and I just about got through it. I genuinely don't know how I'd get through it with the added stress of a divorce after a very short marriage and a massive Catholic wedding. It's like a movie script but I'm a reluctant actress...

I don't know if I could do the divorce while still living here and 'here' is where everything I have put together in my life is, all my work contacts etc. The thoughts of starting over yet again is draining to say the least. As crazy as it sounds (and I do know it sounds crazy), I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that we can somehow work through this.

It's true though; that unless I figure out how to be alone without falling in to depression or anxiety, I will never, ever meet a suitable man. All of the men I met while I was single mistreated me in the most obvious ways and I suppose I'm the common denominator there...

That's the sucky thing too. Lots of people, even friends, won't believe me

They don't have too

They don't live with him.

Best thing my mum ever didn't was leave my dad.

You need to start a plan and get excited about the rest of your life.

Thanks, GreenTulips...we'll see..

Don't worry about the formalities of divorce. They can be sorted out.

I would log all examples of when he mistreats you so you have them on hand. Even on your phone in a list, date, time, action. So you had hard evidence that doesn't get lost in the mists of time. Even stuff like him snapping at you unnecessarily

And I don't want to be mean but you're thinking hard about how to save face re: divorce after your big catholic wedding. The truth is that the people who will gossip about it aren't your real friends, or good family members out for your wellbeing

And people are so self absorbed and flaky that they will forget about it, about you & be distracted by the next piece of news about someone else

People are not worrying about you as much as you are about them. If your community was thinking about you as often as you are, they would be on the phone and over at your place. They're not

Also your cousin sounds like someone who is not going to help you here. She's supporting him instead of being 100% behind you. I wouldn't confide in her

Gruffallina's posts are very insightful, please read them over and over again, you will find them informative and helpful.

Please do not worry about other peoples reaction to your leaving it really is only temporary, I developed a mental fingers in my ears "la la la I'm not listening" stance, it worked quite well!

Others were just interested in the gory possipy details, I just gave them the odd comment, adding "It's too painfull to talk about right now", with a dramatic sniff.
If people genuinely care for you they will be supportive and helpful, if not well you know where you stand.
The most unexpected people will be supportive, in my case it was colleagues who I really didn't know that well initially, certain family members, who i'd never been that close to previously.

Please don't let the worry of possible dissaproval/nasty comments/criticism/gossip affect your decision it really is a very temporary state of affairs and should be the least of your worries.

Life is so short and you have wasted so much time with this man, try and look forward beyond the difficult (temporary) times ahead to a much happier life in the future.
So you've made a mistake, to err is human, don't beat yourself up and don't let anyone affect your decision on what you know is the right thing for you.

, it worked

Completely agree with Asleep at logging all the bad stuff. When you leave (I have faith in you!) you'll need to reread it when you start to weaken and feel you've done the wrong thing.

I like Hazel's post about not taking gossip to heart and being able to take an almost playful role-playing approach to it. Gossip doesn't have to hurt that much.

It's worth adding that though it takes time to get ready to leave, all the time you're being exposed to this abuse is weakening - weakening your understanding of what's normal and that you deserve better.

One thing that helped me leave was to shut away my feelings for a bit. I knew in my head that I had to go, so I tucked away my heart for a little bit until I was safely out and ready to deal with all the feelings.

Thanks to you all...you do make a lot of sense...

I'm really struggling with this.

To be honest, I still feel loyal and attached to my H. Despite everything that has been written here which I have read carefully, I really think he does have a problem with his temper and anger management. I don't think he fits the description of an abuser perfectly. He has told me that I drive him crazy, that he can't handle me and I don't know exactly why: the emotional neediness maybe...that makes me feel that no man could put up with me once they get to know me. My thoughts are see-sawing so much. On the one hand, I feel guilty for ever leaving him and hurting him (even though I hurt so badly in the relationship). On the other hand, I feel embarrassed I've put up with someone snatching bed clothes off me, thumping the door down in anger when he forgot his key (and blamed me), screaming profanities at me, pointing out I've gained weight (we're not ever talking big gains here), snapping, scoffing, slamming doors, laughing at things that matter dearly to me, not listening and never thinking to apologise until I bring it up etc.etc.etc BUT (and I know abusers aren't all bad), he genuinely has been good to me in other ways, ways you wouldn't expect of someone who can be, at times, controlling....he has encouraged my endeavours, he comes along to family outings/weddings, he doesn't mind friends coming to visit (although has in the past insisted I buy the food for them!), he gives me a kick up the a** when I get lazy, does favours for his family and mine, if needed, he's good around the house and cares about the house etc. He really is a good man in many ways.

I keep fantasising about this amazing possible future if I were to leave...BUT I have to remember that the most likely future is one of being long-term single. While that's fine for many people and to each their own, I'm a company junkie. I always was. When I was 15, my sister asked me what my main ambition was and I said, 'a great longterm relationship.' She said, 'ah yeah, but apart from that' and I said 'I don't know. All else is peripheral.' But if I leave him, it really will be the single life. I've seen what it's like out there and at my age, most men are coupled off. My mood plummets when I spend even one day alone and much time spent alone is the reality of single life. I've been there and I found it incredibly tough.

Anyhow, thanks for reading. The part about putting feelings aside for awhile is most certainly what I'll have to do if I ever leave. That's what I did the last time and I remember the landslide when the feelings eventually hit. I'm really not sure if I have the strength to go through that again...

However, perhaps it's good to be even considering divorce. Once I got back with him, I felt trapped. I genuinely felt like I couldn't go back on it again and that I had made my bed. That's why we went for counselling as I wanted to somehow make the situation work...I under-valued myself. I felt I owed him a marriage after breaking his heart.

Thanks again for reading this. I wish I could be posting something other than my confused mind's thoughts!...I know how this reads and I appreciate anyone who reads and is compassionate.

Hi slundle

Re your comment:-

"I really think he does have a problem with his temper and anger management. I don't think he fits the description of an abuser perfectly. He has told me that I drive him crazy, that he can't handle me and I don't know exactly why"

You are not someone who needs to be handled; you are for instance patently not a wild animal like a lion here that needs careful handling.

Anger management courses are no answer to domestic violence.
No you do not drive him crazy, he is that all by himself. Like practically all abusive men he is looking at someone else to blame in this case you. He has a problem with anger but not in the ways you think he does. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger when you call him out rightly on his unreasonable behaviours.

Anger management techniques require the angry person to identify the source of their anger, then take steps to de-escalate the anger provoking situation. Batterers may wrongfully identify their victim as being "provoking" when, in fact, it is the abuser's own frustration caused by his sense of losing control over the victim that pushes his buttons.

Anger control techniques give judges and the community at large the sense that something is being done to end domestic violence. When the victim reappears in court showing no bruises or breaks, the judge can "believe their eyes" and decide the abuser has successfully met the conditions imposed on him. Case closed. Community leaders who refer batterers to anger management classes can believe they've done their part for the same reasons. The false sense of security severely denies the existence of abuse without battery.

Anger control techniques do not force abusers to change the root cause for abuse, which is their unrelenting effort to control the thoughts, feelings and actions of another human being.
Let's stop fooling ourselves as a society. Abusers are not like "normal" people. Although there is no mental disorder ascribed to chronically abusive people, do not make the mistake of believing an abuser's thought process is the same as yours.

It is only when you are out of this and completely away from him will you perhaps realise the whole extent of his abuses that he has meted out towards you. He is not the only man here who has let you down; the rot here really started with your own dad.

Do you honestly think you will remain long term single? Why is that seemingly still a bad thing to you; do you still associate single with loneliness and being alone and other supposedly bad things. I actually think that time on your own will be the making of you frankly.

The worst thing in life is not to be alone but to be with someone who makes you feel alone. Like you are now actually.

You've been sold the wrong ideals via your own family unit your whole life. Why do you fear singledom so very much, where did that mindset start with you?.

Many people believe an abuser's anger causes the abuse in a relationship. However, an abusive person does not become angry the way "normal" people do - their rules are different. And unlike "normal" people, an abuser's anger does not cause them problems; abusive anger is one of their tools. Evidence shows that abusive men who complete anger management programs do not stop abusing. They merely choose another tool to reach the same end.

One thing which jumps out at me is that you have set your bar so low. You list as a good point that "he doesn't mind me having fries over."

You are so far away from understanding what a good relationship is

*fries = friends

I don't think he fits the description of an abuser perfectly. He has told me that I drive him crazy, that he can't handle me and I don't know exactly why: the emotional neediness maybe...that makes me feel that no man could put up with me once they get to know me.

Oh Slundle my heart breaks just reading this. Read that back to yourself. Your relationship with your husband makes you feel like ‘no man could put up with me’. That is not the ‘great long term relationship’ that your 15-year-old self hoped for.

I know exactly what you mean because it’s how I felt with my ex, too. I truly believed that I was the problem and that I just had to try harder. I thought he was a saint for putting up with me. And my ex did nice things for me too: he supported me quitting my job to re-train, he threw me nice birthday parties, he bought me presents. Guess what? None of that changes the fact that he was an emotionally abusive person who lost his temper with me on a daily basis and chipped away at my self esteem until I didn’t even recognise myself.

I am a little younger than you but not by much, and after leaving my ex I met someone else pretty quickly. I am actually in a great relationship now, for the first time, and my god the difference! I opened up to my partner about my ex quite early on. I found myself apologising a lot and telling him that I knew I was quite difficult to be with, and he was just like ‘what?! No you’re not, you’re absolutely fine!’ It took me a while but I eventually realised that there really was nothing wrong with me, I was just with the wrong person.

My partner now is patient, kind and supportive and makes me feel constantly loved and looked after. I truly had no idea that I could actually feel like that, because I had just accepted my past situation as normal and the best that I could get. I genuinely look forward to coming home to him; with my ex I used to feel my heart sink at the sound of his key in the door.

I promise you, it is not you and you deserve better. No one should feel so bad about themselves in a relationship. It’s supposed to make you feel great and like the best version of yourself.

If he feels so little for you - why does he stay?
Ask yourself if he's this unhappy what keeps him there?

He's there navies he can control you and when he says jump - you jump

He doesn't love you - that's not how you treat those you love. He's an arse and you're being stubborn remaining in an unhappy relationship because you feel that's your only goal

To the part where you felt you owed him a marriage after breaking his heart, my dear, no-one’s emotional well-being is your responsibility to the extent you pledge to spend your life with them.

People have their hearts broken, sad but true. Normally, they cry, listen to sad songs on loop, bore their friends for a bit, maybe talk to a therapist if it is that bad ... and then get on with life! The people who get stuck and cannot move past the person who left, who turn into the stalkers and the emotional vampires or the people who cannot function without you —to bully— , they are not the people you marry, seriously.

I want to go back and check a poster’s name so my post will be in two parts.

It’s Gruffina72 - her post struck a chord with me because I stayed till one point I just snapped and told ex to leave. Of course then the fight was on because he did not want to lose control, and it had just gone on and on with me pushing back till I have enough space to live without constantly fearing what will happen next.

The point is leaving is a process, and for you, it starts with counselling to build up your self-esteem. You don’t owe anyone a marriage.

@Slundle, if you're sure you're going to be long term single - can you tell me the lottery numbers too? And tell me how this year is going to shape up for me, I'm keen to know!

Some time alone after to digest ending a 12 year relationship and the emotionally controlling aspects of it will be good for you, otherwise, you can't predict life. You sound like a kind, principled person and still young enough to start again.

I thought I would be alone forever but fell in love with an incredible person just as I was giving up. It can happen to all of us.

To be clear, I am not saying you were daft to think you owed your H a marriage; I thought I owed mine a marriage because I was pregnant and I very much wanted the baby. He said if we did not get married, there would be no relationship, and it was important to him that the baby was born within marriage. Instead of taking my chances and saying yay, baby and no ex, I fell for the emotional blackmail. The decision needs to be understood within the whole context of coercive control.

The other thing I wanted to say is that there is no internal coherence in your husband’s position. On one hand, you ‘make’ him lose his temper (big red flag for abuse, by the way, blaming the victim; you should tell him provocation is no longer accepted as a defence in court); on the other, he is heart-broken and cannot live without you. The only way it makes sense is that the reason he cannot live without you is that he needs the emotional punchbag.

And yes, abusers can be nice too. Otherwise we (and everyone else) would spot them a mile off.

'You make me __' is a classic abusive red flag

The only person who makes someone do something is themselves. He is not forced to act how he is acting, he is choosing. Please don't let him blame game you

I broke up my marriage with no-one else involved. I have never been worried about being single (and not sure why you are - online dating means there are thousands of men at your fingertips, if that's what you want!).

you need counselling on your own - you really don't sound like you know what you want for yourself and that's a difficult place to be in

btw I do think because of that, you could be sabotaging your marriage a bit and I think the more sensible thing is to have counselling yourself and have a bit of space and see how you feel. One piece of advice, if I had my time again, I would have had a trial separation rather than going straight for a divorce. When there is no-one else involved and you feel like ending it, it's often a cry for help rather than there necessarily being something fundamentally wrong with everything in the relationship! (though obviously there can be!)