Really genuinely..is it ever better to stay together for the kids?

[GoodAfternoonSeattle]

This really.

I don’t want to go into too much detail. We have two very young kids. Three and nearly one.

It’s just not working any more.

I have a relative who is high up in education. Her view, in her experience, is that divorce and separation is very damaging to children. And I can’t do that to my girls.

But how can it not be damaging to grow up in an environment where your parents are always sniping and bickering? I mean we would never have a full on shouting match with the girls there but it’s low level horribleness.

What do you do then? Spend your life pretending that it’s all ok? Swallow down the sniping and the rage till the girls are old enough that they won’t be damaged?

They come first and I’ll do what it takes to keep them happy and normal but something needs to change.

Not for a long time. On the very very rare occasions we get out together we have a nice time and a laugh but it’s the day to day.

I think he doesn’t recognise his life and feels under pressure and stressed but I don’t have the time or the inclination to sort him out too. I know it sounds harsh but I want him to man up and get on with it.

Like I have the kids to take care of and I don’t particularly want to take care of him too

OP

i am successfully divorcing. it is possible and agree with others who say its the conduct of the parents that influence a child's life whatever the circumstances.

Its an incredibly difficult decision to leave a marriage. But remember that staying in an unhappy marriage is also a decision.

There was literally nothing more i could do to make it work. I spent years on anti-depressant and therapy to try and figure out what was wrong with me, why i wasn't making him happy. That was a mistake because it played right into his hands. In our case the marriage was co-dependent/narcissistic mix.

The children seem outwardly fine. Most stress-prone child is a lot calmer and content since the split. Ex and i cooperate as best we can. He's an active hands-on uncledad dad who adores his kids. I accept that we wont see eye to eye on some of the minutiae but we're in broad agreement on most things. He treated me like crap, was a dreadful husband tbh - its sometimes hard to separate the two..

One thing i have learned is that divorce is not a magic bullet but it can be a pragmatic choice with positive consequences for all parties. Attitude is everything

Do you love him?

As someone who witnessed the personality change in my mother when she married a man who was clearly wrong for her and her unhappiness for years as she stayed married for the sake of my half siblings I determined I would never do the same.

The atmospheres and passive aggressive behaviour, sulks, simmering silent anger made me a bag of nerves, very confused and I certainly suffered a lot from the stress of it all so I would walk the streets after school as I could not face going home [and got into trouble in many ways doing so].

So after trying so hard to sort the problems when my ExH continued to constantly bicker, criticise, moan, show disinterest in and bully his 2 little boys due to his resentment of being a parent and having bills to pay etc....I called it a day. Sons were just 7 and 4.

The boys had been fighting and arguing, it was escalating as he was on their case every day when he got in from work. I was not going to see them subjected to emotional abuse as I had been [long story], I was just about coping myself. When it was just the 3 of us we were fine and happy.

When he left the atmosphere lightened, the fighting between them decreased dramatically, we were now in a peaceful home and Ex saw them at weekends when he treated them with more care now the pressure was off and took them to their nan and gramp's house who they loved.

My 2 grew up fine, I had no problems with them as they grew up though both wished things had been different at times. We would talk about it, and as they got older they could see how disconnected their father was. One was annoyed that he claimed free school meals for a while but laughs about it now! Both are now happily married with 2 children, hardworking, well balanced men. My friend [with your relatives opinion] who hung on for years had a worst time as her breakup when her boys were 13 and 15 was dramatic, intense therapy was needed, one hated his mother for years and the other had substance issues and took a manual job instead of continuing studies [he was bright] just to get away from home.

Your relative is not right as every case is very individual, based on circumstances and personalities. I think it is better if the children are younger and if the parents are civil with the children's interests a priority.

I love who he used to be. I still see glimmers of that person from time to time.

But I cannot stand this grumpy, moody, sullen, irritable pain the backside that has replaced him.

Kids may struggle when parents divorce, but your children are still young enough that they won't know any different.

I grew up with parents who had (and still have) an awfully volatile relationship, but stay together for who knows what reason and it was extremely damaging and awful to grow up around. Awful as it sounds, I'd frankly have preferred they'd split up before the damage was done. Constant snipping at each other, never in agreement about anything, mistrust between them, Mum bringing me into the arguments on a regular basis, arguments escalating to the point my brother had to phone the police, and then an affair. It may be low level stuff but fast forward 10 years when you've been hating each other and growing apart and then one of you has an affair...then it turns nasty.

I genuinely feel for you OP.

But can you honestly say that you are the same person you were before family life took over?

It’s bloody hard on your own. It’s bloody hard with a man child. When that resentment starts brewing it is so destructive.

Seems to me that you need help, together.

Maybe you could have some counselling for your own clarity?

You definitely need to work on this together as well. If you both value what you have.

Child of divroced parents here. Yes, my parents divorce caused some damage, and I think that's to be taken into consideration. But I do remember, even at 7, that the atmosphere lifted in the house when my parents split. It was a relief. So I would say don't take it lightly, but it's almost certainly the right thing to do, for you and your children. I suppose that some people are ambivilent about their marriage and their children hold everything together, but that doesn't sound like you, nor my parents.

Had my parents stayed together for my sake, and endured anout 10 or so miserable years in my name I wouldn't have appreciated it, in fact I would probably resent them making me responsible for their pain.

What hurt me much more than my parents divorcing was that they went on to remarry, and failed to defend me against emotional abuse from both step parents, but that's another story!

I have to say that my life did get worse when my parents divorced. I'm all for breaking up if both parents will be happy as result but in my case neither of them coped. My mum had a nervous breakdown and my dads drinking spiraled totally out of control so I was left trying to help them both, and I was a kid who shouldn't have had that responsibility. Things weren't great when they were together but it was a heck of a lot better than when they split up. At least when they were together there was some sense of normality.

So my honest opinion is, picture life if you do break up. If you can both be good parents apart and give your kids a stable and secure home separately, then it is better to split up. If not, work on that first.

@hallie29 why are blended families not great? I love my step-mum and step-sister massively and they are just as close to me as family i'm related to by blood

I don’t know. I’m really conflicted.

It has been so cathartic to post here though

@GoodAfternoonSeattle I was thinking about exactly the same thing when I came on here. My DH sounds a lot like yours...

We're having counselling but I don't feel like we're getting anywhere. My DCs are older than yours - very aware. It's definitely hard because they are aware of what's going on.

The oldest is regularly reduced to tears by him - he gets angry. And there has been emotional abuse - as PP say it's not obvious from the outside.

But I still don't know if I should suggest separation. Would it be worse - for the DCs - than how it is now?

Sorry that's no answer OP. But I do think the idea divorce is the worst option is outdated.

namechanged I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this too.

I tried to talk to him today but I’m getting nowhere. He is adamant that things will get better. It’s just a difficult time, the girls are hard work, everything is stressful, no down time etc. I suggested some time apart but he doesn’t want that

There is research that says children are better off in low conflict environments, regardless of whether or not the parents are happy. So a volatile relationship with drama but essentially happy marriage is worse for children than a marriage where parents live together with no hassle even if they are essentially leading separate lives.

I think you have to accept he's not going to be a catalyst in any change. He shouts down every suggestion.

I think it's unfortunate but you need to step up here. And say counseling, individual and couple (not necessarily at the same time) or separation. And it starts NOW. I divorced my ex when the girls were 2&3. It was very very quick. Immediately home was a better place.

We are in France. We shared a lawyer so we negotiated through him. He immediately shot down anyone being ridiculous (my ex). Forced uncomfortable but livable compromises (me). So when we went to the judge we had an agreement and no nasty surprises. I think that is the purpose of meditation in the UK.

Learn more about the process. Share your findings with him if you think it's helpful. I don't think it has to be a scary process.

@GoodAfternoonSeattle when my DC were about the ages of yours, my DH was like that too. We had some very very rocky moments. It turned out he was depressed - he had a mini work-induced breakdown but it was a catalyst for him to recognise his frustrations with the way life had changed now we were parents and counselling really really helped.

Our relationship is not perfect now (who’s is?) but 100% better.

I realised that before DC I’d been able to “mother” him without thinking about it - not hugely, explicitly, just I had time & energy to care more and just did because that was my personality, to fix and nurture. Once the DC were hear I just DID NOT HAVE THE ENERGY FOR A THIRD MANCHILD and it showed in small ways and large ways. I was fucking frustrated with him, and he was miserable and depressed.

Anyway - we fixed it, but it took him realising it was a crisis and he needed to examine his life and actions and reactions.

So if you can, I’d try counselling. So you can feel heard, and you know you’ve tried.

My parents spent years fighting and screaming at each other. It was much better after they got divorced. I would say people often pretend that they are staying together for the kids but it’s really because they are too scared to leave and don’t want the upheaval. Or at least that was the case for my parents.

You should definitely not stay in a toxic relationship with some idea that is good for your kids. If it’s not that bad you should give it a try to see if you can make it work. But if you can’t you can’t. The most important thing is to be civil in front of the kids and to maintain a good coparenting relationship.

My own parents should have split up years ago - my father is a serial cheat but none can be without the other as they are all they know - they have remained together for tha sake of me and my siblings. Wish they had split, then my mother would have had a chance at happiness and so would my father. They get on - but we all know whats going on in the backgroud and she will never trust him again.

My in-laws should have split too - my father in law is toxic and unfortunately, managed to turn my mother in law into an almost replica of him - its awful. She didnt have a job and just looked after the kids (although they shipped all 4 boys off to boarding school) so she had no income, she is heavily reliant on FIL and so i suppose she couldnt leave. My FIL is poison and a pathalogical liar - i dont know anyone that genuinely likes him nor anyone who has a good thing to say about him. My DH and his brothers dont really talk to them nor each other, i think they probably wished they had split too. The saving grace was that they were sent to boarding school.

Please dont stay for the kids - its worse when they kids get older. Trust me.

my father is a serial cheat but none can be without the other as they are all they know - they have remained together for tha sake of me and my siblings

That sentence reinforces the point I made up-thread as it’s contradictory.

Either:

They can’t be without each other as it’s all they know

or

They remained together for their kids.

In my mother’s case, she used me as an excuse (to herself and everyone else) as to why she stayed. In reality she wasn’t ready to leave and only admitted it years after she had left. I carried that guilt with me thinking they’d sacrificed their chance for happiness for me when this was not the case.

It is far more damaging to children to witness their parents arguing constantly or even just clearly being miserable. It is far more damaging for them to grow up believing they should ever feel forced to remain in a situation that makes them unhappy.

You can of work on yourself
You can't change your h but you can change how you react and behave
You can call.jim up when he smiles

Sniping and bickering is not nice for.kids to.grow up. You dont have to.swallow. to appease dh.

Get individual.counselling talk thru options get informed look at practical.issues.

My d ds now 16 18 I was talking yesterday they happy confident they don't recall.too.much about leaving ex in very stressful.situation. but I know that they are calm and confident because I left a tense situation.

They don't remember copying ex s behaviour ...and this chamged when i left
(Dd s were 6 and 8) . your kids will.grow up copying ....bickering and sniping at each other .... if you don't change ypur behaviour and/ or leave.

Tough situation. He may not want a trial separation but really if you are unhappy and he won't talk to you, you'll end up with a permanent one. Does he know how miserable you are? Could you say ideally you would like things to work but you've got to the point where it's relationship counselling or trial separation?

Re the kids - if a healthy happy marriage is off the cards perhaps putting your energies into attempting a separation that is well managed for kids is next best option.