Really genuinely..is it ever better to stay together for the kids?

[GoodAfternoonSeattle]

This really.

I don’t want to go into too much detail. We have two very young kids. Three and nearly one.

It’s just not working any more.

I have a relative who is high up in education. Her view, in her experience, is that divorce and separation is very damaging to children. And I can’t do that to my girls.

But how can it not be damaging to grow up in an environment where your parents are always sniping and bickering? I mean we would never have a full on shouting match with the girls there but it’s low level horribleness.

What do you do then? Spend your life pretending that it’s all ok? Swallow down the sniping and the rage till the girls are old enough that they won’t be damaged?

They come first and I’ll do what it takes to keep them happy and normal but something needs to change.

From what you’ve said counselling may be worth a shot, if he’ll engage.

My situation was different, XH was at fault and his behaviour was appalling. We still managed to Centre the DCs and keep our personal stuff in the mediation room. We couldn’t shield them from it, but our split was far less toxic than some i’ve Seen. Because we made it that way.

My now 15 yo told me he feels confident in his relationships because of his experience and witnessing our separation. He’s emotionally intelligent and very open to talking about his feelings to me.

Had his father and I stayed together he would damaged his children emotionally. I was constantly fire fighting his behaviour and attitudes. It was exhausting and made me desperately unhappy.

My girls don’t have much of a relationship with their dad and I cant do much about that, but I can compensate for their loss the best I can. Not living with him is the best thing I could do for them as well as me.

I had no choice but to leave, that’s the difference I suppose.

We’re a very close happy family now.

An aside - a couple of people have said things like "If there's no abuse then sticking together is best". I know where you're coming from and don't want to criticise, but need to add that :
-Abuse is not always visible to people outside the relationship, and
-People who are abused may not realise that's what's going on. Emotional abuse can be very complex, and gaslight in general etc can convince you that you're the one at fault, and
-'Abuse' means different things to different people. Emotional abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse.

I would hate anyone to think that there has to be physical assault before you're allowed to leave an unhappy relationship without judgement.

From my own experience I think staying together for the kids is much more damaging. My parents tried it, I was about 8 at the time and they tried not to argue when me or my siblings were in the room but I could still hear them arguing, even late at night. About a year later, not sure exactly, they decided to get a divorce. At first it did hurt, I wasn’t expecting it at all (I put a lot of these pieces together later on but as a child I simply thought they weren’t getting along but I didn’t think they would separate). But I slowly got used to seeing my dad on weekends and I couldn’t imagine them still being together now. All I remember from their relationship is them arguing. However seeing as your DC are so young they won’t know any different when they get older if you were to separate.

I have no interest in a new relationship. I don’t want my children to be involved in blended families. I know I couldn’t stop my husband though. That’s another thing that puts me off separating. The loss of control

But then are you honestly going to be happier alone for the next decade and a half then, OP?

You might be - I don’t know! Just throwing some questions out there.

You may want a new relationship later. You could establish an amazing blended family. You can't control all variables no matter what you do about divorce.

I don't think separating or divorcing when the children are so young will necessarily impact them negatively unless you continue to have a difficult relationship that is visible to them once you are apart.
I do speak from experience!

i dont think my son has suffered particularly from his dad fucking off, thankfully, and I can quite honestly say that im glad my mum left my dad when she did.

If me and H split then I would have to sell the house - the children's home - me and the 3 kids couldn't do as much as we do now, invites to bbqs/parties would stop as they are all h's friends and I couldn't trust H to go with the kids and get them home safely when he's drunk. In short, the kids lives would change completely
We don't argue, I just can't stand him. He's a shit role model who spends him time gaming, shouting ffs when things go wrong and leaving his clothes All over the bedroom floor/living room/kitchen.

Child of a marriage that wasn’t that bad but wasn’t good enough.

Yes, it damaged me. My parents didn’t protect me from knowing it wasn’t a good and happy marriage.

I made poor choices as an adult around what was a good enough relationship for me.

I wish they’d split even though it wasn’t that bad to to them.

...oh and when I asked my mother about it all after I was happily married myself, she finally admitted the biggest reason for staying wasn’t for MY sake, it was because she wasn’t ready to leave. I was a nice convenient excuse to herself though.

No, never.

You get one life. If you're spending it miserable and resentful, this will impact on your children.

When I say abuse I mean all types Mary, having been emotionally abused myself by my parents I am very aware of how damaging it is.

@Osopolar .
I have a friend whose family said couples should stick together unless there was abuse. She didn't feel able to tell his family the awful things he did to her. They probably blame her.

Your friend works in education, therefore sees the short-term impact on children with parents that split up.

How does this qualify her to assess the life long impact it has on the person's perception of relationships and happiness after they leave school? That's often where the damage of the parents 'sticking it through for the kids' comes out, isn't it?

My ex and I split when DD was 2. We've had our problems yes (still do sometimes) but we've been able to keep DD out of it. She's now 6 and we all rumble along just fine. She sees him 40% of the time and loves being with both of us. She's very happy, she's doing really well at school and she has a great relationship with DP who now lives with us.

Sometimes she wishes we could all be together. Ocassionally, she'll say something that gives me a pang of guilt or I'll wonder if we've been incredibly selfish.

Bu then I think about all the kids around us and the lives they all live and I realise that us living in two houses is her cross to bear, most people have one and actually, if we keep prioritising her, I'd rather have hers than some of the others...

There's my friend who has two daughters and her husband is a functioning alcoholic, they row like crazy and he leaves for weeks at a time fairly regularly.

There's her best friend from school who spends most of her time with a nanny. She hardly sees either of her parents.

My niece's friend who's father has just died, my friend with MS who has a girl and a boy. So many more people who have these 'less typical' and 'potentially damaging' circumstances. All of these children are still equipped to turn into emotionally healthy adults with functional relationships, even though they will not live their lives how their parents intended when they were first born.

Rich or poor, one parent or two, I dont think circumstances matter its the relatioships they grow up with that shape them.

Your friend may be right that children do struggle through the divorce process- it's a change and adjustment. However, from the research I have done the evidence is clear- what is damaging for children is unhealthy conflict, instability, inconsistency etc. For some people, the best way of creating a stable, predictable, low conflict environment is to divorce. It's not as if you're comparing divorce to a really happy marriage, you're comparing divorce to staying in a relationship with conflict and hostility.

Having said that, single parenting is not easy and people on here are always quick to say LTB but I always wonder how many of them are in the situation themselves of contact schedules, being without their DC half their life etc. Your DH will still be in your life as you will still be co-parents.

I love both my parents very much, but my Mum admitted to me the other day she only stayed with my Dad because of us. I knew growing up they weren't happy, their relationship started on the wrong footing and neither parent could move past it. It caused resentment and although I don't doubt they love each other in their own ways, I think both would have been happier sepearte. They just seperated after 44 years together, its hard.

Anyway, I had a chidlhood where I knew I was loved, we had nice holidays etc and a good life. But what did it teach me? It taught me that my happiness was not as important as me Ex's (we were together for 21 years). i stayed in an emotionally abusive relationship for way longer than I should have as it was what I learnt. That people can treat each other badly, but you have to put up with it. I also have guilt my Mum hasn't lived the life she should have because she satyed out of misguided beliefs it would be better for us. I don't blame either of them as they did the best they could, and well my Mum learnt from her Mum the same thing. My Ex also learnt from his parents the same, that no matter how shit his Dad treated his Mum she stayed and put up with it. But things were different then, both Mum's were not financially solvent, and that dependency made it harder for them to leave all those years ago.

My brother had issues with drugs, my sister is a recoveirng alcoholic. Whether this is related to our upbringing I am not sure. From the outside we looked like we had it all, but in reality there was a lot of unhappiness from both parents. They seem already better apart but now entering their late 60's. Its not going to be an easy ride.

I left 18 months ago, and its been really hard, but my kids have adjusted better than I could imagine. I left for me, and to enable me to be a better mother. My ex has stepped up, and the kids are happier. If I had stayed they would have repeated the pattern of my parents, grandparents etc.

Low level horribleness is enough to change it. I am not syaing that means leaving, but kids shouldn't be in that enviroment, and neither should you or you husband.

I’m wondering about a temporary separation. He seems utterly miserable with life here. Not just with me but it seems clear to me that he doesn’t enjoy the drudgery aspect of parenthood. He is always negative and it’s dragging me right down. It’s like his whole personality has changed.

Not RTFT and not an expert but would say try some sort of mediation or counselling first.
If you stay together for the sake of the children and are in a completely unhappy marriage nobody wins.
If it is unsalvageable, separate amicably while the kids are still young. Everyone will have a chance of a very happy and well adjusted life.

Depends. If you know in yoru heart he's a good man and a great father, then yes, I'd stay together. But not put up with a life of suppressed misery and low grade bickering. i'd work hard at getting the marriage back on track so you have fun together, enjoy time as a family and as a couple, build shared goals, support each others' dreams, respect each other, talk about all the stuff I've just listed.

If you can both agree to work on all that and save a marriage then yes, stay together for the DC, even if you don't feel wildly romantically attracted to him 24/7. But if you have realised you're married to a selfish man who makes no compromises towards family life, puts his own interests and needs above your own and refuses to listen when you ask for things to be changed or resolved, then I expect they'd be better off with two happy, separated parents.

honestly it's hard for the children both ways.

My parents divorced (30+ years ago, I was just starting secondary school). It was awful & still ripples out now - I was put in a caregiver position for my mum's emotions, my brother (8 at the time) was undoubtedly very damaged by it, my dad was a shit head - left us with loads of debts & ran off the the US where he got married another three times in quick succession (I lose track of the number of 'step siblings' I have) - we were very poor mum worked constantly & it just wasn't possible for her to be around as much as we needed. Then there was her only living once phase - partying & boyfriends. All big events were a nightmare - I didn't attend my graduation because of the drama it would cause, both our weddings were planned like military exercises in an attempt to avoid hurt feelings, recriminations and accusations of unfairness (didn't work). My dad's whole family were such arseholes after my wedding that my brother didn't invite any of the them to his. We're completely estranged now - out children have no idea he exists. My mum remarried just as I left for university & the moved a long way away - very bad timing - but I love my stepdad he's definitely (now, it took a long time) my dad & granddad to my children. I adore my half sister - but her upbringing (more money, more stability, happier, both parents around etc) was so different to my brother's & mine that there will always be a gulf of understanding between us. Don't underestimate the the effect that subsequent relationships have on children & how it will be difficult at times even when they are adults.

My dh's parents stayed together - FIL was a deeply unpleasant bully MIL is a martyr. The children were split down the middle - on mum's side or dad's. DH hated his dad & though he's close to his mum it's complicated, he has very little respect for her. His brother has turned out just like FIL, well one has - the other is an alcoholic who has never maintained any relationship, I won't let either near my children.

On balance - we came out much better ... my brother & I are very close to my mum, we love our stepdad & feel lucky to have our sister. Dh's family is completely estranged.

My parents stayed together until the death of one of them I didn't understand fully the tears and upset but knew it was there. Talking to my surviving parent about how unhappy the marriage was makes my childhood happy memories seem grubby and a lie. It wasn't best for me or my siblings.

I am in my 40's and have siblings also in their 40s. My parents are still together (almost 50 years) but quite often they live on seperate continents. My mum was a nightmare when we were growing up. When my sister was a teenager, she begged my dad to get divorced (she only told me this in recent years.) My brother and I have had to have therapy.
I made a bad choice of husband but our DS, now 8, is so much better than when we were together constantly bickering, in a structured custody arrangement, with parents who are so much happier apart.

The transistion is not nice, divorce never is. In your case I would start counselling, but make sure you DH knows that if it doesn't work, it will be separation. But communication between the parents whether together or divorced is key.

I am sorry you are going through this. We always want the best for our children, but even the most perfect nuclear families have their issues.

A counsellor once told me that they don't need their parents to be perfect, or to maintain a perfect facade. But they are perceptive.