Estranged from Children

[Farnhammum11]

I am feeling utterly bereft and need advice. Let me explain...

My daughter and I fell out several years ago over something really silly. She initially went to live with her paternal grandmother (who never liked me) and then with her father and his new wife. Despite my pleas she refused to come back home and it really broke my heart. Attempts to reconcile over the years, with the help of her brother, who is three years younger, never lasted. She really didn't want to have anything to do with me and would say "the time is not right". My friends and family would say that when she has children of her own she would get back in touch. So I clung to this like a drowning man clings to a life raft, despite my reservations that she may never have children because she had became anorexic when she went to live with her father and his wife.

In September 2012 her brother, who had been living overseas returned to the UK on a short business trip and he arranged for us to meet up with my daughter and her new partner for lunch. The lunch went well and at the end of it we exchanged telephone numbers and I really hoped that we could at last start to build bridges. She was, after all, 31 by this time. We exchanged text messages, despite the fact that it would take days for her to respond to my texts and my calls went unanswered. But I was patient. She was too busy to meet up before Christmas that year so we met after Christmas and exchanged gifts. We continued to text but it was taking her longer and longer to respond. She was also too busy to meet up for coffee/lunch. Then in August 2013 I received a text from her saying that she was getting married in October 2013 and that I was not being invited to the wedding as it was going to be a private affair with a handful of close friends. I felt extremely hurt. I know she has a right to invite who ever she wants to her wedding but it felt so callous to be told in that way. I felt as if I was being rejected by her all over again! I text her back and said she had really hurt me again and that I could not take it any more and said I would leave her alone to get on with her life.

However, although I said that I would leave my daughter alone I continued to seek updates on her life from my son who had remained in contact with her. My son and I have always been close and I thanked God that at least he had not turned his back on me. However, in August 2016, in a telephone conversation with my son he told me that my daughter had had a son who was nearly 12 months old. I couldn't believe what I was hearing at first and asked him to repeat it. Then it dawned on me that my son had kept this from me the whole time. All the video and telephone calls we had had and not once had he mentioned that she was pregnant or that she had given birth to a baby who was now nearly one. I asked him why he had not told me and he said that she had asked him not to tell me. I said but "I'm your mother, don't you think I would have liked to have known that my daughter had become a mother and that I had become a grandmother?" He messaged me a photograph of the baby and I was really grateful. I cried. I said I still couldn't believe that he had withheld this from me. This was such a significant event. My daughter had had a child. And suddenly I realised that if she hadn't reached out to me when she was pregnant and following the birth of her baby who was now nearly one, she never would! I became virtually hysterical at this point and demanded to know why he hadn't told me. I felt that he had betrayed me too. He said that she had told him that she would never speak to him again if he told me. I said but I'm your mother. His next words drove a steak through my heart "Do not make me choose between you and her!" He never sent me another photograph of the baby. And although I continue to ask how she is in every conversation I have with him he never tells me anything. Then four months ago he inadvertently told me that she was expecting another baby. I asked a million questions but his stock reply was "I don't know".

I went to stay with my son recently and we have spoken many times since my return but he let slip today that my daughter had given birth several weeks ago. I asked why he had not told me sooner. He said you know why! I again said "But I'm your mother. She is not going to know. I have no contact with her". I then asked him whether it was a boy or a girl. He hesitated and said "I think it's a girl. But I'm not discussing it any further". I am truly heart broken! I just can't believe that my son would not share this wonderful news with me even if I will never be able to see any of my grandchildren. I felt so hurt that I ended the telephone call. I feel really betrayed by my son and I feel that he has made his choice and chosen his sister. Am I wrong?

oops wrong thread, I'll ask for it to be removed.

My mother believes I should have amnesia or at least forget about what effect she had on me as ''she did her best''.

Amnesia about her multiple suicide threats throughout my childhood.

Amnesia about her constant bad moods and constant blaming others for her bad moods.

Amnesia about her bad temper spilling over to rages including hitting her own 3 year old grandchild for not shutting the utility door and for forgetting to put the toothpaste lid back on.

I could go on.

We have low contact now because she is in denial about how toxic she is.

I totally get that "relief I can finally be me" since going low contact!!

My mother absolutely believed everything she told people she'd done for me.

the truth was the exact polar opposite.

The sad thing is that the reality of what she did/didn't do was SOOO cruel that I was the one that people thought was making it all up. :(

I HATE the way she has gotten away with being perceived as a doting mother and grandmother and I am the apparently ungrateful/unstable one.

OP I think you do sound quite controlling and perhaps it is just a case of you having a daughter who did not want to be controlled - the two of you clashed.

I do think that NC has become a bit of a cult, born out of the fact so many people don't have the emotional resilience they once had and their only way of working through emotional upset is to shut down the relationship.

Equally I know lots of mother (funnily enough rarely fathers) who feel the need to control and own their children and as their children mature they kick against this and the parents refuse to modify their behaviour - resulting in NC.

Its a painful process and a message to us all that we need to monitor our relationships and evolve them as time goes on

All you can do is grieve for the loving, caring mother you never had for as long as it takes for you to make peace with it.

And BE the mother you wished you had with your own dc.

Someone told me that my mother taught me a huge amount about how NOT to be a mother.

When my teenage dds tell me they will bring up their dc as I have brought them up I feel an enormous sense of pride and happiness

Are you bringing up your dc to be kind and thoughtful? Or are you the martyr and they are ungrateful? Have you brilliant, caring and helpful role models in their lives? Have you created a safe and happy home for them?

The dynamics of how you bring up your dc means it's not always what you say but what you do and that goes for all the people in their lives who will have an influence, both positive and negative.

I cannot understand why my own mother doesn't reflect on the fact that she was a terribly negative influence in our lives throughout our childhood with her cold, cruel and abusive behaviour.

She won't acknowlege it because she doesn't believe she did anything wrong

It’s not just believing they are right (although certainly true for some)

But there is an element of not wanting to admit they are wrong.

My mum would have to admit the anti female stance she has. The mental abuse she inflicted on us all. That is wasn’t my dads fault that I don’t love her , but actually her behaviour and so on.

That is 50 years of pain that she inflicted on her children and she is incapable of admitting that she is solely responsible for it.

So she blames her ex husband, her parents , her young children who didn’t act ‘appropriately’ ie like adults and to her will. Anyone but with who the fault actually lies.

That’s a big admission for anyone and some people who rather die being lonely and right, then apologise and admit mistakes.

Hissy (waves, I used to be G2B), The sad thing is that the reality of what she did/didn't do was SOOO cruel that I was the one that people thought was making it all up. yes, that's really shit. What they twist and make up about other people sounds so batshit, you end up looking like a nutter making it all up if you try to defend yourself, it all sounds so outrageously awful. And they are GOOD at manipulating, get people on side. Mine very strongly implied she had terminal cancer, so obviously when mixed with all the things I had supposedly done (like steal from her apparently) made me look like a total evil bitch.

You expected her to "reach out to you" when she was pregnant even though you rejected her and broke off all contact over her wedding?

You are going to lose your son as well, if you haven't already.

G2B!!!! I was wondering how you were!!!! Your post about your H imagining her creating a new narrative really resonated with me, it's the only explanation - especially knowing your story as I do, I really think that was the case.

I challenged my mother once, didn't back down in the face of her denying what she had done, her expression was something I had literally never seen in my life before. I still to this day do not know what she was processing. All I knew was that I could not blink or weaken.

These damaged parents are no friends of the truth.

Yeah, it's like "does not compute". We're good. It'll be 4 years NC this summer. She did, it turns out, slag me off to the buyers of her house when she emigrated, they got waaay over involved and it's all been a bit weird with them. But, it's so good without her in my life. Work's going well, we bought a house, Dh's been in full time work since before Xmas and the kids are great. Life is calm and happy. My mother's loss.
I mostly post on OTBT now.