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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Estranged from Children

161 replies

Farnhammum11 · 28/04/2018 22:31

I am feeling utterly bereft and need advice. Let me explain...

My daughter and I fell out several years ago over something really silly. She initially went to live with her paternal grandmother (who never liked me) and then with her father and his new wife. Despite my pleas she refused to come back home and it really broke my heart. Attempts to reconcile over the years, with the help of her brother, who is three years younger, never lasted. She really didn't want to have anything to do with me and would say "the time is not right". My friends and family would say that when she has children of her own she would get back in touch. So I clung to this like a drowning man clings to a life raft, despite my reservations that she may never have children because she had became anorexic when she went to live with her father and his wife.

In September 2012 her brother, who had been living overseas returned to the UK on a short business trip and he arranged for us to meet up with my daughter and her new partner for lunch. The lunch went well and at the end of it we exchanged telephone numbers and I really hoped that we could at last start to build bridges. She was, after all, 31 by this time. We exchanged text messages, despite the fact that it would take days for her to respond to my texts and my calls went unanswered. But I was patient. She was too busy to meet up before Christmas that year so we met after Christmas and exchanged gifts. We continued to text but it was taking her longer and longer to respond. She was also too busy to meet up for coffee/lunch. Then in August 2013 I received a text from her saying that she was getting married in October 2013 and that I was not being invited to the wedding as it was going to be a private affair with a handful of close friends. I felt extremely hurt. I know she has a right to invite who ever she wants to her wedding but it felt so callous to be told in that way. I felt as if I was being rejected by her all over again! I text her back and said she had really hurt me again and that I could not take it any more and said I would leave her alone to get on with her life.

However, although I said that I would leave my daughter alone I continued to seek updates on her life from my son who had remained in contact with her. My son and I have always been close and I thanked God that at least he had not turned his back on me. However, in August 2016, in a telephone conversation with my son he told me that my daughter had had a son who was nearly 12 months old. I couldn't believe what I was hearing at first and asked him to repeat it. Then it dawned on me that my son had kept this from me the whole time. All the video and telephone calls we had had and not once had he mentioned that she was pregnant or that she had given birth to a baby who was now nearly one. I asked him why he had not told me and he said that she had asked him not to tell me. I said but "I'm your mother, don't you think I would have liked to have known that my daughter had become a mother and that I had become a grandmother?" He messaged me a photograph of the baby and I was really grateful. I cried. I said I still couldn't believe that he had withheld this from me. This was such a significant event. My daughter had had a child. And suddenly I realised that if she hadn't reached out to me when she was pregnant and following the birth of her baby who was now nearly one, she never would! I became virtually hysterical at this point and demanded to know why he hadn't told me. I felt that he had betrayed me too. He said that she had told him that she would never speak to him again if he told me. I said but I'm your mother. His next words drove a steak through my heart "Do not make me choose between you and her!" He never sent me another photograph of the baby. And although I continue to ask how she is in every conversation I have with him he never tells me anything. Then four months ago he inadvertently told me that she was expecting another baby. I asked a million questions but his stock reply was "I don't know".

I went to stay with my son recently and we have spoken many times since my return but he let slip today that my daughter had given birth several weeks ago. I asked why he had not told me sooner. He said you know why! I again said "But I'm your mother. She is not going to know. I have no contact with her". I then asked him whether it was a boy or a girl. He hesitated and said "I think it's a girl. But I'm not discussing it any further". I am truly heart broken! I just can't believe that my son would not share this wonderful news with me even if I will never be able to see any of my grandchildren. I felt so hurt that I ended the telephone call. I feel really betrayed by my son and I feel that he has made his choice and chosen his sister. Am I wrong?

OP posts:
Tiggy321 · 29/04/2018 14:13

I think everyone is being a bit harsh to the OP. It is really a tragic situation. I would be heart broken if my relationship with my children turned out like this. Yes something happened which was clearly fairly significant. But I cannot imagine as a child or parent allowing it to continue so long. It's no good for anyone and those grandchildren are missing out on a relationship with their grandmother. Who knows what it was all about but it clearly was extremely hurtful towards the daughter.
I would back off with your son a bit. Don't ask him about his sister despite how much you are desperate to. I would try some kind of mediation or at least some counselling for you to try to come to terms with what's happened.

AnneLovesGilbert · 29/04/2018 15:21

What a brilliant post @AgonyBeetle

So insightful and helpful. Thank you.

jammydodgersssss · 29/04/2018 21:56

I'm not surprised the OP hasn't come back. She came here for some support and all she has received is judgement and quite a lot of nasty comments. Is this what MN is for? Whatever has happened this lady has asked for help and has received the opposite. Guessing she already feels shit! Nobody is perfect.

KeneftYakimoski · 30/04/2018 08:10

She came here for some support

She can go over to Gransnet and join one of the interminable "I am obviously deranged and unable to tell the truth, and you can see from space why my family have nothing to do with me, but please come and hun me a bit" threads.

See, for example:

www.gransnet.com/forums/relationships/1246974-Kept-from-grands-I-need-advice

HadronCollider · 30/04/2018 08:17

So Keneft do you jump to assumptions that every poster is the same? Almost every area of MN is morphing into AIBU. The same combative, aggressive and sometimes, downright cruel tone.

Smeddum · 30/04/2018 08:21

Actually OP (if you’re still reading) I don’t blame you for feeling the way you do. Feelings aren’t controllable, and aren’t something that can be switched off.

What was very unfair was to speak to your son the way you did and put such pressure on him. That wasn’t on, and you risk him going NC too.

Next time, don’t mention your DD to him if you want a relationship with him.

Cawfee · 30/04/2018 08:27

Back off the emo drama on your son immediately. Seriously. You are asking for advice here. Never talk to your son about your daughter again EVER. Right now. Silence. Or you will lose him. You are OTT and emotional hard work. I’m sorry to be honest but you asked. Get yourself a counsellor to pour out your feelings to and not him. When you see him it’s ligthearted chit chat about you and his life and fun times. No more. You’ve driven your daughter away with your neediness and you are going to have to be really clever to turn this around.

KeneftYakimoski · 30/04/2018 08:27

So Keneft do you jump to assumptions that every poster is the same?

The ones that fall out with their adult children for reasons they mysteriously won't explain, continue to behave in an entirely unreasonable manner and then experience a cliched (and in this case misspelt) stake through their heart when they don't get their way? Yep, all the same.

tillytown · 30/04/2018 08:53

KeneftYakimoski that gransnet poster can not be for real

KeneftYakimoski · 30/04/2018 10:06

that gransnet poster can not be for real

It's hardly a rare case

www.gransnet.com/forums/relationships/1231786-DIL-problems-that-I-dont-get

with its followup.

www.gransnet.com/forums/other_subjects/1236446-DIL-wont-visit-my-house

sausagedogsmakechipolatas · 30/04/2018 10:30

I can’t see any assumptions in the replies to the OP? She admits she had a strop not being invited to a wedding and stopped contact herself. On that basis I’m not sure why she’d think any information about grandchildren would be offered. The whole tone of the post was woe is me, no awareness of why this might have come about.

liondance · 30/04/2018 10:42

Sometimes supporting someone means not telling them what they think they want to hear. You can support someone and not agree with them.

Hadron you don’t know what the story is so how about you stop making assumptions?

liondance · 30/04/2018 10:42

With your patients I mean.

gluteustothemaximus · 30/04/2018 10:44

I rarely make judgements on here. But that post couldn't have been more obvious that it was 'poor granny' being cut off.

Read the OP.

It's all me me me. No boundaries. No respect. No explanation of silly argument. Yet we have a daughter who has chosen to keep 2 children secret.

It's obvious to us who have experienced it.

Isetan · 30/04/2018 11:41

It’s difficult to comment on the relationship with your daughter because of the absence of a backstory (there is always one) but it is very clear, if you continue to behave the way you have been behaving towards your son, you will lose him.

You have to decide if your son’s ‘loyalty’ towards you is more important than having a mutually respectful relationship with him. You’re asking him to choose, which gives him the option to choose her.

I know it’s hard to accept but no one is entitled to a relationship.

gluteustothemaximus · 30/04/2018 12:49

There was a long build up to going no contact. I wrote several nice emails, and then a firmer/more factual letter to my parents, explaining everything. I even held a 'meeting' with them to explain everything (which went badly wrong as my father is a violent misogynist).

They claim (to anyone who will listen) that:

'We don't know what we've done'
'She won't even tell us what she thinks we have done'
'She just cut us off without warning'
'It was all over us being 5 minutes late'
'Her perceptions of the past are all wrong'
'It's that husband of hers, he's turned her against us'
'She's knifed us in the back'
'She's driven a stake through our hearts'

And to our faces:
'After all we've done for you'
'I'm still your mother you know! I have rights!'
'You've always been mentally unstable, this just proves it!'

And on facebook she posts images of me, saying how I've estranged myself, and she posts pictures of my children, saying how she has been denied access.

She tried to get my brothers to take photos of my children, and she gets people to come up to us trying to extract information.

So forgive me, if I hear the same old crap coming out of someone's mouth. When I hear those words 'I don't know what I've done!' I just think, like fuck you don't.

golondrina · 30/04/2018 13:21

It's shit, isnt it gluteus? My mother claims much of the same thing, says she doesn't know what she's done even though I've told her in writing twice. To me she does the I'm your mother bit and says I'm being disrespectful by not talking to her.
Batshit.

Hissy · 30/04/2018 13:24

for me it's more "I don't know what I've done to deserve this..." means I don't WANT TO THINK about what kind of person I am to have done this.

and I certainly don't want to ADMIT to being the heinous kind of person to have done that

OnTheRise · 30/04/2018 13:33

So forgive me, if I hear the same old crap coming out of someone's mouth. When I hear those words 'I don't know what I've done!' I just think, like fuck you don't.

Same here. If you listened to my parents you'd think I was an ogre. They lie and they manipulate and they deny but they never, ever, ever say they're sorry.

gluteustothemaximus · 30/04/2018 13:46

golondrina - it is indeed batshit. Batshit should be in the dictionary. Term used to describe the behaviour of narcissists Grin

OnTheRise - I'm an ogre too. And not once did they ever say sorry.

Actually, that's a lie. When she finally realised where this was heading, and I had asked her to leave my house, she knocked on the door again and said 'I'll apologise if that's what it takes to still see my grandchildren'.

That was rather satisfying. After years and years of crap.

KeneftYakimoski · 30/04/2018 13:52

Has there ever been, on any forum, a story told by some whose adult children have cut them off which didn't make you think "of course they cut you off, because you're a crazy abusive narcissist who doesn't deserve to see daylight, never mind your grandchildren?" And that's when the story is recounted by the cut-off party, presumably with what they believe to be the best possible spin?

HadronCollider · 30/04/2018 15:30

If you 'don't know what the story is' why assume the worst about the OP? That's my point.

golondrina · 30/04/2018 15:37

Because it's totally classic. Claiming that her daughter has fallen out with over "something silly" but not elaborating on it. I would put money (based on experience) on it being far from "silly" or even an isolated incident. Then stropping off and refusing to be in contact herself when not invited to the wedding, then trampling all over her son's boundaries.
It's what people like this do and it's why their children stop being in contact with them.

KeneftYakimoski · 30/04/2018 15:40

If you 'don't know what the story is' why assume the worst about the OP?

Because it's cut precisely from the standard cloth. Note: they never said what the initial falling out was about, only that it was "silly". I'll bet you any money that neither the daughter, nor a reasonable third party, saw it as "silly".

MiggledyHiggins · 30/04/2018 16:06

From the article linked above:

Posts in estranged parents' forums are vague. Members recount stories with the fewest possible details, the least possible context. They don't recreate entire scenes, repeat entire conversations, give entire text exchanges; they paraphrase hours of conversation away. The only element they describe in detail is their own grief or rage.