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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Estranged from Children

161 replies

Farnhammum11 · 28/04/2018 22:31

I am feeling utterly bereft and need advice. Let me explain...

My daughter and I fell out several years ago over something really silly. She initially went to live with her paternal grandmother (who never liked me) and then with her father and his new wife. Despite my pleas she refused to come back home and it really broke my heart. Attempts to reconcile over the years, with the help of her brother, who is three years younger, never lasted. She really didn't want to have anything to do with me and would say "the time is not right". My friends and family would say that when she has children of her own she would get back in touch. So I clung to this like a drowning man clings to a life raft, despite my reservations that she may never have children because she had became anorexic when she went to live with her father and his wife.

In September 2012 her brother, who had been living overseas returned to the UK on a short business trip and he arranged for us to meet up with my daughter and her new partner for lunch. The lunch went well and at the end of it we exchanged telephone numbers and I really hoped that we could at last start to build bridges. She was, after all, 31 by this time. We exchanged text messages, despite the fact that it would take days for her to respond to my texts and my calls went unanswered. But I was patient. She was too busy to meet up before Christmas that year so we met after Christmas and exchanged gifts. We continued to text but it was taking her longer and longer to respond. She was also too busy to meet up for coffee/lunch. Then in August 2013 I received a text from her saying that she was getting married in October 2013 and that I was not being invited to the wedding as it was going to be a private affair with a handful of close friends. I felt extremely hurt. I know she has a right to invite who ever she wants to her wedding but it felt so callous to be told in that way. I felt as if I was being rejected by her all over again! I text her back and said she had really hurt me again and that I could not take it any more and said I would leave her alone to get on with her life.

However, although I said that I would leave my daughter alone I continued to seek updates on her life from my son who had remained in contact with her. My son and I have always been close and I thanked God that at least he had not turned his back on me. However, in August 2016, in a telephone conversation with my son he told me that my daughter had had a son who was nearly 12 months old. I couldn't believe what I was hearing at first and asked him to repeat it. Then it dawned on me that my son had kept this from me the whole time. All the video and telephone calls we had had and not once had he mentioned that she was pregnant or that she had given birth to a baby who was now nearly one. I asked him why he had not told me and he said that she had asked him not to tell me. I said but "I'm your mother, don't you think I would have liked to have known that my daughter had become a mother and that I had become a grandmother?" He messaged me a photograph of the baby and I was really grateful. I cried. I said I still couldn't believe that he had withheld this from me. This was such a significant event. My daughter had had a child. And suddenly I realised that if she hadn't reached out to me when she was pregnant and following the birth of her baby who was now nearly one, she never would! I became virtually hysterical at this point and demanded to know why he hadn't told me. I felt that he had betrayed me too. He said that she had told him that she would never speak to him again if he told me. I said but I'm your mother. His next words drove a steak through my heart "Do not make me choose between you and her!" He never sent me another photograph of the baby. And although I continue to ask how she is in every conversation I have with him he never tells me anything. Then four months ago he inadvertently told me that she was expecting another baby. I asked a million questions but his stock reply was "I don't know".

I went to stay with my son recently and we have spoken many times since my return but he let slip today that my daughter had given birth several weeks ago. I asked why he had not told me sooner. He said you know why! I again said "But I'm your mother. She is not going to know. I have no contact with her". I then asked him whether it was a boy or a girl. He hesitated and said "I think it's a girl. But I'm not discussing it any further". I am truly heart broken! I just can't believe that my son would not share this wonderful news with me even if I will never be able to see any of my grandchildren. I felt so hurt that I ended the telephone call. I feel really betrayed by my son and I feel that he has made his choice and chosen his sister. Am I wrong?

OP posts:
ohfortuna · 01/05/2018 13:11

The massive wall of text post an unreadable assault to your eyes is also somewhat telling

TemptressofWaikiki · 01/05/2018 13:29

Exactly ohfortuna That user name is the ultimate arrogance. I had visions of DMommy ranting about wire coat hangers... Hmm

golondrina · 01/05/2018 15:41

We are NC and I'm finally having the best years of my life.

Oh, this, x 1000000. Yeah, it's funny what you can accomplish once you get rid of a smothering, enmeshed relationship that grinds you down. I have made so much of my life in the four years since I went NC. Personally, professionally, things I wouldn't have had the confidence to do before. I am happy without the weight of responsibility for someone else's happiness, a happiness that no matter how much I tried was unacheivable. In fact, the harder I tried the less she tried.

It took a while, but I am finally 'me'. And I'm actually rather nice Yes, I feel like I finally found out who I am and want and what I'm capable of and I'm quite impressed by me when all is said and done.

phlewf · 01/05/2018 15:58

@KeneftYakimoski this has just blown my mind. “ The "silly thing" will be weight, weddings, sex or education “

Literally had a “silly” fight about booking a wedding when I’m so fat when I’ve got a find a job with no qualifications cause I prioritised a sex life over hard work. I wish I was making this up!! Is it that classic?

golondrina · 01/05/2018 16:13

The silly thing for me wasn't silly at all (she wanted to control all aspects of my life and interfere in parenting and slag my husband off and didn't like it when I told her not to, threatened to kill herself among other things) but she reduced it down to a "row about a laptop", when she wasn't pretending she didn't know what it was about. It wasn't about that at all. It's the selective twisting of facts to make themselves look wronged and their children look unreasonable.
Going NC with your own mother is really shit and hard. Not just because they are your mother and you have complex feelings around them, but because it is generally seen as socially unacceptable. NOBODY does that on a whim. They do it as a last resort.

PookieDo · 01/05/2018 16:19

What is the hardest thing to bear as a child (even adult) is that these incidents or problems do not happen once. It’s not linked to a one off. It’s a repeated pattern and the parents often do not seem to change or be capable of change, despite real emotional regrets, fundamentally the trust has been broken. By the person you were conditioned to trust the most.

Neverseen · 01/05/2018 16:20

Being the 'estranged child' (one of 6 'estranged children') I can totally see why your daughter wants nothing to do with you, and you're pushing your son away in the process. You sound suffocating and playing the 'poor me' card, your daughter obviously has issues with you and you're minimizing any responsibility for this.

One of my elder sisters had our walking womb on fb, and I would be horrified if they had spoken about me and my son/photos exchanged because I want that venomous woman to have nothing to do with my son, she doesn't acknowledge my existence (unless her partner emails me demanding money) so why should she have any knowledge of my child. She's not his grandmother, she has given nothing to him or myself (except crippling mental issues) so why should she get to see him or know anything about him? and knowing her, she would probably go around showing off pictures to people of her 'beautiful grandchild' who her 'evil daughter' won't let her see.

She conveniently forgets that the 'ungrateful, spiteful children' who she bitches about (she used to moan to me about my older siblings when I was child and had to see her) have all had to witness her histrionics, been subject to social services, were brought up around her abusive relationships as well as being emotionally and physically abused by herself and usually made homeless before adulthood - the list goes on.

I'm not saying you're as bad as that, but she never saw any wrong in what she did and would constantly excuse herself - exactly what you're doing.

qazxc · 01/05/2018 21:09

Stop using your Son as a spy. By manipulating him the way you are, you will only alienate him.

DearestMommy · 01/05/2018 23:36

This is all so of bitterness. I am sad that I have lost my daughter and I am sad that I have played my part in it. But I still maintain that some kids are just plain nasty to their parents. It has always been so. It isn't always about abuse emotional or any other kind. We are all human. To err is human. Why assume that anyone that loses contact with a child is either a narcissist or a something equally horrible? Yes there are bad mums out there, but there are also toxic angry kids out there too that have to lash out at their parents for everything that goes wrong in their lives. I would love to see the same posters views on this when their daughters have grown up and perhaps turned toxic - as they often do in their teens and early twenties. I just wanted to put another point of view across instead of assuming in the absence of a lengthy explanations of what went wrong that the mother must be an evil devil woman guilty of abuse. It is not always the case. Not just fighting my corner. I just think you are all too ready to think the worst of a person. I haven't been on here for years and I just remembered why. Man and parent hating keyboard warriors is how you all come across I'm sad to say. I haven't read a single person acknowledge they might have got it wrong. I have seen a single person admit that they were beasts to their mums when they were young and wished they had been kinder. What a sad state of affairs.

gluteustothemaximus · 02/05/2018 00:31

My mother used to say to me that she couldn’t wait until my children became teenagers and turned on me and treated me like shit. Literally couldn’t wait.

Well one of mine is a teenager already, and he’s lovely. By his age my brother had run away from home. My other brother was taking drugs, and I was drinking and had left home by his age too.

We were all fuck ups as teens. Bit of a coincidence our parents were narcissistic. But they say to everyone we were nightmare teens.

I haven’t got all the answers. But I love my children unconditionally. Their ‘love’ came with conditions.

user764329056 · 02/05/2018 01:33

‘But i’m your mother’, like it entitles you to possess your children. Love, respect and a beautiful relationship with anyone is earned, not a given right, even if you gave birth to them. We all make choices, I am NC with my narc mother, her actions mean she has forfeited the right to a relationship with me, she made her choice by the way she has acted, she has no rights to a relationship with me and my life is a peaceful one, I have no regrets with cutting her out of my life

ohfortuna · 02/05/2018 01:46

I have seen a single person admit that they were beasts to their mums when they were young and wished they had been kinder
My kids were awful at times, I dont expect them to apologise for it, if anything it was probably due to my bad handling of things.

Parents chose to be parents and they have a responsibility to do the best they can by their kids, manage them if they are beastly and not retaliate by being beastly back later on in life!
the kids dont owe them anything for the fact that the parents looked after them

PookieDo · 02/05/2018 07:41

I have had some tough times with my kids and some of it is my own fault and own doing. It didn’t work out with their dad and wasn’t very nice for any of us for some time. He’s hard to coparent with. I work full time and am not a typical SAHM. I’m not perfect and I make mistakes but I don’t make the same mistakes over and over, destroying any trust my kids my have. I also apologise when I am wrong and have made a mistake. I also do not have unrealistic expectations or demands of them. I also listen to them. I hear when they are angry with me and we talk about it and vice versa.

This is not about being a perfect parent or even abusive but being selfish and quick to make excuses for yourself can suggest a level of denial or just an inability to see why relationships go wrong for you. As I have many other successful relationships very long term friends and extremely close to my own sister I have people around me to be honest with me when I fuck up.

PookieDo · 02/05/2018 07:47

FYI the relationships with my parents was ruined through utter selfishness, it has made my sister and I very close but mistrust of my father and loss of any respect for my mother. They are both very clingy and controlling as they have a certain view of themselves (blaming each other for most things) and a view of how the children should be.
Apparently we should be empathetic towards them at how hard they had it - which was self inflicted. And we worked it out when we became teenagers/adults but were trapped with it. It is no surprise we both left home the moment we could, married unsuitable men and struggled for a few years until we found our own way in life and I don’t want my parents fucking up all my hard work

Just listen to what people have to say here, I suspect some of it might hit a nerve

PookieDo · 02/05/2018 07:58

When a spouse breaks you trust you can divorce them
When a parent breaks your trust it appears DearestMommy you think the child has to forgive you and divorce is not an option. It is, and you don’t own your child or a husband - both are allowed to leave you

Neverseen · 02/05/2018 08:58

@DearestMommy - none of us are saying we were perfect children, what we are saying is the OP is minimising her part in her daughter's estrangement. This wasn't a silly little argument, and if the OP really feels that way, she's completely blind to the feelings of her own children. The post is full of self pity and entitlement. Of course there are children who turn on their parents for no good reason, but this doesn't sound to be one of them, and a majority of the NC posters on here were also not one of them. To stop a grandparent having ANY contact or keeping children a secret means the parent did seriously wrong and is playing ignorance to their own problems, there is much more to this story, the daughter is more than 'miffed' and this isn't some blameless vindictive grudge..

ScabbyHorse · 02/05/2018 09:42

Dearestmommy The language you are using reminds me so much of my own mother who I am low contact with. Describing children as beasts, nasty, talk of evil, such drama!
It takes an awful lot for a daughter to decide in the end to protect herself from the behaviour of her parent. It is not done lightly.

ohfortuna · 02/05/2018 11:14

The whole 'but I'm Your Mother' thing implies that children are permanently indebted to and beholden to their parents, that they own you and you can never terminate the relationship.
A relationship that you didn't choose to be in in the first place.

One would never say to a spouse 'but you're my husband' if they wanted to end a relationship, even though it was a contract freely entered into as an adult.
No you would accept that they have a right to change their mind that they have moved on and the relationship no longer works for them.

SmashedMug · 02/05/2018 11:21

I knew before I even read the post it would follow the narc mother script. Same with "dearestmommy". Definitely gransnet material!

BadTasteFlump · 02/05/2018 11:34

I have seen a single person admit that they were beasts to their mums when they were young and wished they had been kinder

You mean young as in when they were children? Children can be beasts and often are to their mums - it's normal. I could be a 'beast' as a child, as my children are to me at times. I would never hold that against them because it's NORMAL. I know they love me and my ego is not so fragile that it can't cope with it.

I agree with you OP - you should probably stay away from Mumsnet as you won't like hearing any opinions that differ from yours.

Have you actually told anybody what the 'silly' thing was yet btw?

gluteustothemaximus · 02/05/2018 11:35

It is no surprise we both left home the moment we could, married unsuitable men and struggled for a few years until we found our own way in life

We all left home at 15/16.

One of us has remained single forever, can't form relationships.
One of us has married a narcissist, and hasn't worked it out yet.
One of us, went right into an abusive relationship (me).

But we were all 'nightmares' as teens. We all went 'off the rails'.

It's funny, she always used to complain about the neighbours teens, because they were all so lovely. She used to call her so 'bloody lucky' to have 3 wonderful children. Fact is, they were 3 wonderful children. But they had 2 wonderful parents who weren't narcissistic. Just normal.

Thing is, I hold no grudge. I just want to move on. I have no issues, bear no ill will towards them, just don't want to know them. I don't talk about them, I don't bad mouth them to anyone; but yet they have told anyone within a 10 mile radius what an evil witch I am.

I am very very lucky to have met my DH. He was in the same boat. He left home early. They all did. Same story. It does mean our family is rather small, and we have no 'help', but we are very happy. No more toxic. No more batshit. No more tears. No more stress. And that, is worth everything Smile

golondrina · 02/05/2018 11:56

No more toxic. No more batshit. No more tears. No more stress. And that, is worth everything.

Abso-fucking-lutely! I sometimes feel like breaking into song, a la Mary J Blige, No More Drama....

FantasticButtocks · 02/05/2018 12:59

Looks like a bit of confusion in here - DearestMommy IS the OP, just her name doesn't seem to be highlighted on her recent post, not sure why.

FantasticButtocks · 02/05/2018 13:01

Oh no sorry!!! It is ME, I am the one who is confused! Apologies to all concerned Blush

ohfortuna · 02/05/2018 13:01

It's because the OP namechanged