Is this out of order?

[Grounded03]

Hi all,

Longtime lurker here and would really appreciate your point of view on this situation.

I've been feeling a bit stressed and wobbly about work and life recently, and about my marriage too. DH and I have been together for 15 years, 2 kids and have always had quite a fiery relationship - we are both argumentative and can be stubborn, and wind each other up at times. But I have huge respect and love for him too. We both work in stressful jobs and our sex life has been pretty non existent recently, which I tend to bring up every few weeks or so and get upset about but it feels like we're both stuck.

Whenever we argue, he can be very spiteful and I can be sulky and over emotional. My mind immediately springs to 'this is it, we'll have to end things', which is often an overreaction I think, but then at other times I wonder if my gut is trying to tell me something.

I went on his laptop at the weekend to finish an online shop and saw it was open on Facebook on this profile of a girl I know he is friends with - they studied together a couple of years ago and have stayed in touch I think. She once popped up as a suggested friend for me a while back. She is gorgeous and mid-20s, about 15 years younger than DH & me. Anyway, messenger was open on FB and it was an old thread saying thanks for lunch and cocktails etc, from back in July. I was a bit confused/jealous/pissed off but let it go and didn't mention it.

Fast forward to yesterday, DH says he's going to London today to possibly meet up with a work colleague about a new opportunity (I know this is true), do some shopping etc. I got a bit moody as I immediately thought I wonder if he is going to meet this girl. But he didn't mention he was at any point last night when he was talking about his plans.

This morning I checked his phone while he was in shower (something which I don't do, and which I am not proud of at all) and have seen that he texted her yesterday arranging to meet for lunch today. I played it cool and at breakfast with the kids again asked him what his plans were for the day. Again no mention of meeting her.

So he's gone off and I have gone to work and can't concentrate thinking about all of this. We've never been in this situation where I have been checking up on him or testing him. I know his version will be that he didn't want to tell me as he thought I'd be angry with him, and that they are just friends. He does have platonic girl friends, but I usually know them.

Would this be acceptable to you? I will ask him again tonight and see if he says anything. I think he might drop in casually that he saw her and make out it was just a last minute arrangement. But it just doesn't sit right to me, and I hate feeling like I can't trust him. If he still doesn't mention he met her then I think we have a real problem.

If you've made it to the end, thank you!

I'm quite laid back but this sounds secret. Whether he just fancies her and nothing has happened but he feels guilty because he knows he shouldn't be doing it, or whether something has happened I don't know. But it doesn't sound innocent to me. Something made you check his Facebook.

Wow. It's a good job you came across the message. I think you should say; a friend saw him with a woman that wasn't you and ask wtf he is doing.

Update: He eventually came home, drunk at 12.10 am, after saying that he would be home around 9ish, then again to say he was still in the pub and wouldn't be home before 10.30 pm.

I pretended to be asleep but lay awake with heart racing. Tried to check his phone at 2 am but he woke up so I couldn't . Eventually I managed to check his phone at 5.30 am. From the texts it appears that the girl, let's call her Sarah, had to pull out of lunch because of work, but then managed to leave early to meet him later and feign sickness so she didn't have to go back. to work I found a receipt for a bar in Soho for £75.

Last text from him at 10.42 pm to her (on train home I imagine). 'Thank you for skiving off and fitting me in. You are amazing, don't let anyone tell you you're not.'

Her reply: 'What a wonderful text to go to sleep to! Amazing (or something similar) to see you as always. Let's go and see the (name of play he's talked about wanting to see.)'

His version of events from what he told this morning: he hung around London, none of his friends were free to meet up, he went to the pub on his own (not the one I found the receipt to), eventually met up with a male friend and Sarah, which he casually name dropped in at the end as if I knew he she was. I have no idea if male friend was actually there or not, it wouldn't surprise me if he was for a bit, just so my DH could justify it all to himself.

He is hungover and acting sorry and guilty this morning, was extra helpful with kids etc. I played it cool as if I didn't suspect anything.

I don't know whether I should approach him about it all tonight or not. It's our DD's birthday in a couple of days and I don't want it to spoil that. Then we are meant to be going out for dinner too and I know I can't sit opposite him and pretend everything is ok.

My worry is that even when everything is out in the open, he will downplay it and make it seem like they are just friends, that he just got drunk with mates and came home late (which he has form for and I don't usually mind much). I think he may even convince himself that he hasn't done anything wrong. He is very clever and good at arguing and fact checking and often makes out that I have the wrong end of the stick.

He has a passcode on his phone which I don't think he knows I know (I didn't know I remembered it but amazing what a bit of adrenalin can do) so he hasn't been too secretive with his phone. Do I see what happens next or have it all out? I am dreading telling him I have been checking his phone.

Thank you for reading all this.

Oh dear. Well done for holding it together.

Did you manage to get screenshots of the texts? Do not let on that you know his passcode, you can do some more digging first/keep an eye on the texts between them.

Sorry, it all sounds utterly dodgy and that he is embarking on a fling. What an arsehole. Sorry.

He is very clever and good at arguing and fact checking and often makes out that I have the wrong end of the stick. Also known as gaslighting, he's sounding more horrible all the time!

Keep hold of that receipt too if you can.

He can't argue with facts...

@GreenFingers, thank you. I did think about taking screenshots but my sure how to do that on his phone without him finding out? I will have a Google of how to do it. The more facts the better, you are right. The one upshot of all this shit is that I might pursue a new career as a spy!

I've got nothing to say other than..
Fucking arsehole...

If my other half spent the night in a bar running up a bill of 75 quid I would be fuming.. I'm surprised you are so calm!

With another woman that meant to say

I am not calm, I think I am in shock and running in adrenaline. I have an important thing to prep for work tomorrow and I cannot concentrate at all. That is another reason I am worried about having it out - I don't know how I will hold it together at work tomorrow.

You could take a photo of the text with your phone?

He's guilty because he's already preemptively dropped her name casually into his narrative that he met a male friend. He thinks you're suspicious because guilty people behave as though people ought to be suspicious. Paranoia is a consequence of knowing you are acting deceitfully.

I would check his phone again. I would not let on. I think I'd need proof. Without proof he can simply write off your feelings as unreasonable and this further enforces his idea that HE isn't doing anything wrong. He will try to convince you she is just a friend and you are being ridiculous. If you look to be paranoid, checking up on him, suspicious and jealous he will justify hiding all evidence of future contact with her.

What a twat.

Remember, just because he casually slipped in that he'd seen her, that doesn't change the fact he lied to you beforehand by omitting that he had arranged to see her.

Their texts are very pally. The 'you're amazing' and 'lets go see the play!' And the fact she skived off work to see him for hours, all point completely to there being something going on between them imo. You don't send those messages to a friend. You don't purposefully hide from your wife you're seeing a friend. You don't call in sick to work, risking being caught drinking in a bar, to see a friend.

He's having, or starting, an affair. Perhaps only emotional at this point, though they may have kissed.

He's disrespecting you completely. What a twat.

I think I am going to find it really hard to pretend everything is ok. He can always tell when I am pissed off. I wonder if he will change his passcode just to be safe. How can I get through the next few evenings and DD's birthday pretending all is ok? It's my birthday too and I feel it's just going to be shit. He is due to go to London on 3rd May, he may try and met her then. Or he may regret it all and reel it in - or am I living in cloud cuckoo land? What a bastard. I don't know how to concentrate on anything else.

Op it doesn't matter if he tries to downplay it, make it into something else or give you the "i didn't tell you because I knew you'd react like that" BS .

What matters is how YOU feel and what YOU think about it.

If I was in your place I would be having a hard think wether I want to confront him now or keep your cards close to your chest and get more evidence/find out more as he doesn't know that you know anything yet.

How do you think he would react if he found out you went for drinks with a male colleague, lied about it and then tried setting up another secret meeting to go see a play together?

Can I also say thank you to all of for reading and commenting. I feel I have people out there holding my hand and helping me see that none of this is in any way ok.

Also what @LimonViola said.

What do you have to gain by waiting to confront him?

And when are you thinking of doing so?

If I were you I'd just get it done. You already know enough to know he's a liar and being emotionally unfaithful with this woman at the very least. What more do you need to know?

When did he tell you about the 3rd of may?

Remember at lunchtime he told you he was coming home early
That's because she couldn't make lunch
If the plan had been to see his male friend in the evening, he would never have text to say he'd be home early.
He was milling about London waiting for her all day hoping that although she couldn't make lunch, she'd eventually find an excuse and be let out of work.

The 3rd of may is not long away. I'd wait and see what other texts appear, and what other bollocks he comes up with.

He mentioned in his very first text to her inviting her to lunch saying could she do yesterday or the 3rd of May.

Any advice on how to carry on as normal from people who have been through similar?

He's having an affair with this woman. It may not have progressed to a physical relationship yet but he's clearly cheating on you emotionally. You have some serious decisions to make. I was in a similar situation but only found out about it after it'd finished. I stupidly forgave him and then he did it again, and ultimately left me for the OW.

Their texts sound as if they haven’t done anything yet, but are on the brink of it.
I’m not sure if i could do this, but a good friend of mine in a very similar situation to you had a very oblique conversation with her husband. She started saying what do you think of men who cheat on their wives and families? How do you think they live with the guilt? Really cool as a cucumber and not reacting, just seeming curious, and watching him. She said it went unspoken, but by the end they both knew exactly what was being said. She ended by just stating” imagine loosing your home and children though, would it all be worth it?” And just let it hang in the air.
He cut contact with the potential other woman. And sort of obliquely thanked her a few months later for saving their marriage.
She is a writer and actress though and did say she just felt like she stepped into a role.

I'd try to play it cool for now and keep an eye on things.
Keep snooping you'll find more.
Check whatsapp and imessage or any other apps he might have.
Take photo's on your phone of evidence from his phone.
That's the best way to be found out.
It's sneaky and it's devious but so is he.
Time to get your evidence together and then get your ducks in a row.
It may just be very good friends getting together every now and then.
But you need to know for sure what is going on.

In my head, if I were in this situation I'd like to think I'd try and play it cool. Keep a cool head, keep checking his phone and see how their conversation develops. Calling another woman "Amazing" doesn't sit well with me, but I've been known to be a tad jealous so that could be unreasonable.

If you can do the above, definitely do it. You'll find out more that way as the way things stand now, there's too much room for him to down-play and wiggle out of anything that might be brewing.

His previous mates (female ones) has he kept them secret from you ?

Thanks everyone.

Does it help to have evidence of an affair etc that could be used to support a case if we did separate? This is something I want to be clued up on. DH works in this area and is b knowledgeable about it all so I want to make sure I know as much I can.

@notapizzaeater, no not really. He has lots of female colleagues through work and I tend to know most of them by name or have met them sporadically. I can sometimes be a bit jealous (perhaps just compared to him, not jealous compared to most people I don't think) so that's why I initially thought I might have overreacted about this - which is what he will try and persuade me I am being, I am sure.