been together 3 years not proposed

[user1486305061]

Hi, I posted on here just over a year ago. We had a child who's (14 months soon) I posted a few months after he was born saying my partner won't marry me he doesn't see the point waste of money etc, whilst i'm traditional and do want to marry. I was born in the 80s so I'm entitled to still feel like marriage is important to me it was a big part of my time growing up as a child, Family security and honesty is important to me. I realise things are different now times have changed but as I wasn't born or growing up in today's times surely i'm entitled to keep my beliefs? what is so wrong with wanting what you've always wanted? he's a bit older than me, I've returned to work and make good money. But i'm still feeling a loss that the marriage thing will never happen. All I understand is that after saying "well marry if you want to" a year has passed and it's still never happened, it's never come in in conversation it did yesterday by me but again it hasn't been able to be discussed without an argument. Am I being silly thinking things will change or should I realise after making my feelings clear that another year has gone by and he's no further towards it? any help would be appreciated. My previous post from a year ago is copied below:

previous post:
i this is the first time i've posted on here and not really sure how to get my feelings across but hope someone may have some advice.

i was with my partner of over a year when we found out i was pregnant. I was completely over joyed and although my partner thought it was too soon we were already living together and said we loved each other and talked about everything so I thought although it's soon it's not like it would have happened eventually. He said he would be there and we'd move forward together as a family ect. However he had a hard time coming to terms with it and whilst i was pregnant every time something exciting happened - i got heartburn, he kicked for the first time or we went for a 3D scan i felt like i just couldn't share that as he (my partner) was still on a downer. so all these excited and wonderful emoutions i had i quickly learned to shut down and turn them off quickly. Fast forward to after the birth and i now feel the same even though my partner is a fantastic dad i feel quick to stop the emoution and feel unable to plan ahead e.g. christening and family holidays because he never wanted it. which he's said many times throughout pregnancy. Another thing which came up is marriage - whilst i'm from a traditional family and have always loved the romantic idea of meeting someone falling in love and getting married - he sees all the negatives:
the money and societal pressures ect. we don't need a to get married to show we're committed ect. But i now feel a little bit lost like i'm in a relationship with a child but it's not going anywhere and why because of money? i don't think money is a good enough excuse for me. and all this relationship worry it's getting on my nerves when i should just be focusing on our gorgeous baby not getting upset but i feel a bit like we have this family built on absououtely no foundation, i should mention here i live in his house and although i do have a well paid job i'm currently on maternity so i'm feeling very beholdednt to him and his wishes for the future. I just can't seem to accept the fact that i'm never going to have an engagement story to tell or wear a ring or even a wedding ring i'll never be able to run home to my mum and tell her all the amazing details of the proposal. it just feels a bit like i've settled and given up on a dream. i do love him and shouldn't that be enough? but then if he loved me he'd do anything to keep me? it's so confusing - i've been lied to in relationships in the past and i just don't want to hang around for something that's never gunna happen. I am independent and can drive and everything else and whilst i realise you don't need a man to be complete it's more about common goals for me like i thought we would be moving forwards towards someday getting married anyway but we just happened to get pregnant first. after a lot of arguing he said "well i've conceded to you if you wanna do it and the time is right and we're still together i'll do it." But again i don't want someone to do something just because i want it, i want to work towards a future that we both want together. i didn't exactly have a straight forward birth and this is my first so i know my emoutions will be all over the place now but any advice would be appreciated. many thanks

Sorry for calling you a mug!
That was insensitive of me. All I was trying to point out was how manipulative your partner is being. I don't want to criticize you at all.
I had a friend years ago who after 12 years with a man like this went from outgoing, funny and confident to a heavy drinker and social phobic as it slowly ate away her confidence.
Like her relationship it was his way or no way.

Actually you don't even need to ask him. Make sure you are joint tenants if you buy a house (very important) don't give up your job and change your child's name to yours. Your decisions are yours and his then his.

i said to him if i move out we can still date and then see if we get married later down the line and he said that would be taking a massive step back

Well of course it's taking a massive step back - that's the whole point.

that's ok. thanks for offering applogy. But for want of a better term i don't want to "be a mug" i'm together i've always made my own money so the last thing i want to do is be naive and trusting in words when i could be taken for a ride.

he makes enough money to live alone so didn't need my money but like wise i don't need his.

so it's difficult to figure it out

when i say maybe you just don't want to marry me he says

well i'm saving for a ring i said i would marry you

the am i being selfish ending it because i want marriage and he may not? because then i am being hasty

so like many others on here it goes round and round.

thanks for all the advise - i agree with someone else on here it shouldn't become a feminist issue every time someone asks for advice it did and that's not something i want to get in to i am a feminist and i dont "need" a man but i would like to be committed with marriage. and i don't want to have to keep explaining why. i've said verily she times a big wedding isn't important but if it is for one of you then i support you in that.

as a feminist i stand by "i want what i want" so if you do want a big wedding then have one - especially if you're paying for it! why should you be peer pressured in to believing a big wedding isn't right? You're not peer pressured in to thinking a registry office isn't right! each to their own and i hope some of these comment of this post can help others

for me having clarity on someone's intentions is advice i would found useful so thank you for that advice.

He has you where he wants you. He doesn't want to date you. And actually that would totally remove any self respect you have left. Bloody hell. Just turn up for sex and the best bits, whilst he gets the freedom of a single man. Why would you possibly suggest that? you're worth so much more x
You need to look to yourself now, and your child, and do what you need to to make sure you're secure.
He is head tripping you into staying even though-and I guarantee this-he will not marry you. This kind of person will always say it is not them who will leave you. But that's only because you will, one day, see through the lies and realise all the years you have wasted. You are still young. Don't sell yourself short.

i am a feminist

Feminism is about equality. Which is about as far from tradition as you can get. So by waiting for a man to propose, giving up your name etc you are doing the exact opposote of feminism.

Do you love him op?
Does he love you?

I think these are the questions you should be asking yourself.
If he doesn't want to marry you because he doesn't really love you, then obviously you know where you stand.

I think the saving pennies in a jar for your engagement ring (when he knows how much it means to you, and money doesn't seem to be short) is possibly the most humiliating thing I have ever read on mn.

Bollocks he's saving for a ring. OP would be happy with something from Argos if it meant getting married. He's lying and by doing that disrespecting and humiliating her.
Have a date in your head and stick to it. When that date comes there will be another 'reason'. He will want to save for a honeymoon and to 'do it properly'. Another 2 years will pass. Then you'll have a child. Then he will say you don't have money as you need to focus on the kids. You're on a roundabout here and only you can make the exit.

Blackberry.
Of course it is, if you are using the argument that romanticism and the desire for a man to show how special you are is immature and stupid.
If that's the case any woman silly enough to have sex with a man (but who supposedly don't want the proposal and white wedding), is equally immature and stupid. It isn't unreasonable to expect a man who you have committed to, having birthed his child and done everything he has asked about being exclusive, etc etc, to do the one thing you want, and the one thing that truly, honestly, shows the desire to share lives together.
He's got his way but she hasn't.
She isn't stupid anymore than every other woman on this thread who has a relationship/marriage with a man. All are giving in to the needs of men, just in different ways. One is having sex with and committing to a man without fuss. The other is having sex and committing to a man but wanting him to publically show he wants her.

Why don't you just ask him if he has a time frame in mind?

£250 for a ring? It depends how traditional he is - he may have set a budget dependent on his salary.

I know my OH started asking about us joining our finances as soon as he'd saved - we couldn't before as I would have seen he was saving!

If you love him, talk to him and explain how it makes you feel

He isn't remotely traditional. We know this because he was happy to cohabit and have a child with a partner he's not married to.

Thus, if he's suddenly become all 'traditional' about how much he wants to spend on a ring, especially when he knows OP wishes to be engaged and married soon, that's suspicious.

We don't know that at all. You can pick and chose how you do things - i know we put buying a house before wedding & kids. Life doesn't always go in the order you'd like it to!

Yes, you can absolutely pick and choose. Of course you can, and a good thing too. But if you choose not to stick to the traditional path, it makes you not traditional. Someone who is traditional doesn't choose to have a child and cohabit outside marriage. That is what he has done.

So yes, we know for certain he's not traditional.

Being conflicted doesn't make one stupid and I wouldn't suggest that.

You're not being emotionally abused but there is a saying that abuse is an assault on your emotions not on your intelligence.

I think what's going on here is that you don't feel entitled to have your own agenda. You feel you have to 'win' him. You want his approval. That is a very common dynamic in couples where the woman wants to get married and the man doesn't. Probably find if you dig that in your childhood you were looking for your parents approval and never quiiiiite receiving it to the extent that your accomplishments and character deserved or would have received in another household.
You are a good earner so you don't need his approval. You ''only'' have one child so you have the freedom to leave. You could change the script. At the moment the script is that you're not quiiite good enough for him to marry. Change the script to 'what he's offering you isn't good enough'.

but you have to mean it, you have to genuinely feel that

Charismatictac
Fabulous post.

Have a date in your head and stick to it. When that date comes there will be another 'reason'. You're on a roundabout here and only you can make the exit.

If he's got a good enough job that he can afford to live alone but doesn't as you're there paying some of the bills yet it's taken him over a year to save up for a ring, he's lying and dangling it in front of you in a cruel manner. He could have saved £50 a month and bought a nice ring by now. You have a 14 month old, plus the 9 months you were pregnant.

Starlight, thank you. I learned this lesson the hard way!

NOW, I am so glad that I didn't marry my children's father. But it was the same story, fob, fob, fob, fob fob until i finally exited the roundabout. It's only looking back that I recognise that there I was, showing him my low bar. I fitted in with his agenda to get all of his needs met at my expense and no 'cost' to himself.

As it happens now I'm very glad I didn't end up married to him, so I don't look back on it and wish I'd handled it in any particular way (other than having left sooner). But I see how my tolerance for the bone he threw me signalled nothing other than a very low bar. And yes I had a good job when I met him. I was slim, attractive, had friends, had a good humoured witty personality but I had a low self-worth and so I didn't feel I had the right to my own plan/standard/agenda. If a woman wants a relationship to head towards marriage then she has every right not to fit in with a man's agenda to just live in a common-law style relationship.

Yep. Although honestly OP, you sound like more of a catch than he is.

OP please have this conversation with your DP sooner rather than later.

He’s right, lots of people don’t get married because they decide as a couple they don’t want or need to. However this is where it’s a joint decision and both feel that the other is fully committed to the relationship. Also in those cases if one party changed their mind the chances are the other would be open to it because the relationship is important to them.

This isn’t the same for you. He isn’t placing any value on your needs, or indeed respecting how much you have done to accommodate him. Also, you have embarked on the lifelong commitment of parenthood together. The time for cold feet has passed.

Put bluntly, he needs to shit or get off the pot.

Well said in your latter paragraph Charismatatic

OP you sound really lovely. I have read how you have tried to take on board a whole range of views. You sound v v accommodating and reasonable. With these qualities, a good job, a clear focus on how to make a partnership work, you could be a good match for more men than others.

So in one sense the ball could be in your court, if you really could be financially independent as a single mum. This would get v difficult with two children.

I don't have as strong a sense of your DPs lack of commitment as some others here.

• Dislike of marriage/not wanting to marry anyone?
• Preference for the status quo. Stay comfortable as things are. (You are v good at providing this for him)?
• Not wanting to marry you?
• Not wanting to marry with the recent expense of maternity leave, childcare, new mortgage. Does it seem to him like an unnecessary expense (I know men who think like this). Yet perfectly committed to you in the longer term?

Then I'd be considering, out of these what is and is not acceptable for you?

If it's an expense thing, for him. Problem solve that. You can get married without an engagement ring, without pomp and ceremony. A registry office, your mum as witness would do it. You get married, he doesn't stress about the expense.

If it is about keeping the status quo, you can't keep obliging him. Tell him being married shows you XYZ and is essential. Tell him you'd be happy with an eternity ring when DS is 5yo. That an engagement ring isn't what matters. This takes the financial pressure off, while making clear what's important to you.

If what you actually want is the pomp and ceremony, ££££ on a wedding and a ring, lots of social media coverage, then if I was your DP Is be hesitant. There are better ways of showing love, commitment and partnership. If it truly is marriage you want, why not do it simply, but insist it happens asap?

I'd be concerned if it was me he didn't want to marry.

I wish you all the best. I feel for you. It's probably time to take stock and decide on priorities. Is it a priority to have a wedding right now? Is it a priority to get married soon? Is it a priority to be sure how your DP feels? Or do you know how he feels and you want marriage...

i said to him if i move out we can still date and then see if we get married later down the line

oh girl. Moving out and dating him is WORSE than the deal you have now. If you move out you END the relationship.

You say you'll set a date and then "we'll" decide. No, he has already decided and he's stringing you along. It's you who will decide. I agree with pp that you're waiting for his approval.

I put it to you that a wedding in vegas wouldn't be ok for you - but you jump at it because at least it would be a wedding. My guess is you want the whole shebang - the big wedding, the excitement, a groom totally in love with you and excited about spending the rest of his life with you. You don't have that with this man. I doubt you'll ever have that with him.

As for putting spare change in a pot to save for a ring - that is so unbelievably tragic. He makes it abundantly clear he has no regard or respect for you. You want a man who prizes you and is so grateful for what he has in you. You really don't have that with this man.

It's YOU who has to decide you won't put up with this agonising shit any more. He has no intention of marrying you - do you want him to marry you under duress (though I doubt he'd even do that tbh) or do you want to be free to meet someone who is all you want in a partner and husband.

i think traditional is being confused with religious beliefs. I can still be traditional. no matter what order anything happens it was always known that i'd want a traditional family lifestyle including marriage at some point.

thanks all. And Charasmatic can put things across really well.