I feel bad, but im losing patience with my Mrs...

[DadPlaysItCool]

My partner seems to constantly be clashing with our 5(and a half) year old... She seems to think that he always responds to her with attitude, or he sounds miserable. Somewhat like a teenager i guess.
Im of the opinion that when he does this. it can be pretty normal for a kid his age. He definetley is NOT a miserable kid. But she clashes with him, ends up losing her rag with him. They get into an argument, and i step in. Or if im at work, i can almost time when my phone is going to ring, after shes dropped him to school, when she can tell me how he wasnt getting dressed, back chatting, etc etc...
she says "i dont see other kids talking like this" "he is miserable, and its driving me mad" Basically laying all responsibilty on his little shoulders... I approach him differently, and get vastly different results. She says "kids behave differently towards dads" which to some extent i agree with. But not totally. I feel that she has completely unrealistic expectations of what, and how a child should be acting etc. I think she sometimes treats him like an adult, instead of a kid.
I have said multiple times to try different methods, ways of approaching situations. Ive tried leading by example. Tried telling her to seek advice away from the home. We could look into parenting classes if she thinks it will help. Yet, the situation blows over, we carry on with life, and end up back in the same place. with little to no effort to change.... Just repeating the same behavior, expecting our child to just "change" ...
Its got to the point where now. When she comes to me to vent her frustrations, and talking bad about our kid. Im really struggling to not shout at her, or even be understanding towards it.
HELP! am i being unreasonable, is she right... Or do i need to need to actually demand she actually does something about it, rather than repeating the same cycle of sh*t.

sockamnesty I agree had this been a woman talking about her partner things would have been different - not many would have been saying to the woman you need to do more and let him get out and get his nails done - but I think a few of us have called the OP on it - "No one should treat a 5 year old like that and you are right to be concerned; he is the child, she is the adult and no matter how hard it was for her as a child she has to step up".

I think if the OP feels he's made some headway let him give it a try. I wouldn't be giving unlimited chances though, the child comes first always.

NeedsAsockamnesty.... Im kind of glad to hear that from you. Becuase recently, thats EXACTLY how ive felt. Which i feel bad about(partly why im here) ... But it does piss me off. Dont get me wrong, she isnt "abusive" ... but her raised voice, and harsh tone towards him can upset me at times. Then she comes to me, upset, clearly angry with herself. But still almost putting the blame on him(i know......) But then doesnt REALLY seem to want to make steps to rectify it, no matter how strongly i suggest different things. Ive tried the supportive, praising her approach many times. But when it feels like she doesnt act on it. I get pissed off inside, which blew over recently.

You said she had felt really bad in the lead up to her period? I think that's certainly worth exploring too. It's not unusual for pms to become much deeper and more overwhelming in late 30s and into 40s and that can cause a lot of unhappy or angry feelings for a week or two a month.

Sorry but I’m not sure why everyone is insisting an adult woman be treated with kid gloves.

Millions of us have more than one child and are able to cope.

An adult doesn’t clash with a five year old. Losing patience once a while is absolutely normal.

But constant “clashing” is bullying.

OP, maybe it’s the way you’ve explained it but as I said upthread, only you know how prevalent it is and if it is happening all the time to the point that you feel your child is being mistreated then you need to be his advocate.

Oh, and “wife” or “partner” are fine and not abbreviations. No need for Mrs, Other Half or any other derivative!

@Needasockamnesty I said pretty much the same upthread but it’s fast moving and could have been missed!

Sounds like my mother (although it was much more extreme) just because she is female doesn’t mean she is automatically a caring mother. This could be damaging, could you do some sort of family therapy?

I haven't read the whole thread, but perhaps your wife (or you together) should do a course in positive/compassionate parenting.

another example... Going back to a school run a while back. I got the phone call while i was at work, telling me what a nightmare morning she had, and what a brat he was being. But then when i asked her what happened, i was like "err.... go figure" They need to leave for school at 08:30.... They sat eating breakfast and watching cartoons until 08:10. then she wants him to hurry up and get ready or "we'll be late". But as a five year old has no concept of what late really means. he is stalling getting ready, still distracted by cartoons etc. Then she ends up getting annoyed with him... like... wtf. all that has since changed though. theres now an actual routine in place.

Again, please dont judge her on that one example. But that is/was why i get so frustrated.

Its got to the point where i almost hate the days i have to go to work, or leave her with the boys. Becuase im just waiting for that phone call from her, ripping her hair out... Im just beyond understanding now. Parenting isnt easy. But believe me, we/she get a LOT of help.

I don’t see this as hostile parenting. I have lots of GC and do a lot of childcare for them. I observe many and various parenting styles but would never judge. One of my DiLs and one of my SiLs are less patient and a little more critical of the children than some of the others.

What I also observe is how my GCs react to the individual parents and how they react when the parents are together. All of the children are loved and are learning lessons about how to deal with people outside of the home environment. Without exception they have gone through difficult stages, some when they are young, others when they are quite a bit older.

I was left alone with all of my children for long periods of time, as my husband worked away. They were generally good kids, but I would lose my rag with them from time to time. Looking back, I know I could have handled lots of situations better than I did. Homework, sensitivity issues, squabbling. In fact, I could write a book on things I would have done differently. A very big book. Despite this, they say they had a happy childhood and I am sure that a different parenting style may not of been any better for them or me.

Parenting is very much ‘learn as you go’. No one method works for every child in every situation. It is so good to see a couple working together to resolve issues and be willing to ask for outside help. Talking together is a very big first step in resolving things.

You sound like a good dad and I can identify with your wife's situation a bit myself. I had a phase of clashing like this and getting angry with our eldest. She had really bad tantrums and I just got so overwhelmed with them- it was like walking on eggshells. When the tantrums phase was over I found it really hard and would react over the top to small things. I think I was just mentally exhausted.
Do you think she has dealt with her childhood? Maybe it would be a good idea for her to see a counsellor to talk about things. Even if just to vent. It's good to talk to someone who isn't emotionally involved. It can help you put things in the past and stop them dominating your life. I can identify with the PMS too as I am 39 and mine is getting steadily worse, but I cry instead of getting angry.
Keep talking and I hope things get better.

OP's OH seems to already have lots of time to spend with friends from what the OP is saying but wants even more. I find it depressing that people need time away from their children so that they won't snap out and fight with them.

To me it seems that her solution is more me time.

Staples Corner
not many would have been saying to the woman you need to do more and let him get out and get his nails done
^
This EXACTLY!

It seems the OP has had enough and doesn't want to keep repeating the same. Both I and my husband can be harsh with our children but we correct one another
Not all 5yo are obedient. We only see one side of other people's children. Why don't know what they do the other 99% when we don't see them. I have been to weddings and while I spent time trying to force our children to sit at the table and eat I gradually realised that most other children are so "good" because their parents don't spend most of the time shouting from afar at them to come and sit down but just let them play. Also when out with friends with their children I have noticed that many of them hardly eat anything but their parents are always calm and never make a fuss about it.

I remember my mother constantly critisising us and comparing us with other children. I used to go to school with them and we spend many hours together in the class and never found anything "cute" or brilliant that my DM would mention about them. In fact our cousins' DM would constantly praise her children. When I got older I realised that our aunt had exaggerated lots of it and I am glad she had done and also that her DD had lots of demands, not by screaming or shouting but e.g. always wanted branded, expensive clothes, sunglasses etc. but our DM had idolised other people's children fantasy which she had created without any evidence in her mind.

one of the hardest lessons i had to learn was to under-react to points where I'd feel cross, because as soon as I over-react, the reaction from DD1 escalates. I'm not sure I've got it yet but all the times I don't under-react and calmly deal, things never get better.

Also, I'm a poor planner, I sympathise with your DW. I had to enforce a rule of getting ready for school by x time and TV only back on if both children fully ready. I find it's ALWAYS hard to get them to stop watching TV/screens.

On the days we get up late, TV doesn't go on at all.

You've also as a parent got to accept that if you spent too long faffing with washing/an interesting mumsnet thread, berating your child to go faster when you've set yourself up for failure isn't the best idea.

Having a 2 and 5 year old IS hard - you both need sympathy!

oh btw - I DO need time away not to snap or over-react - when I feel unsupported, I do over-react more. Plan routine breaks for her, or at least ask if more predictability in her breaks (and yours) would help. But then routine makes me happy.

I could be your wife OP. The reason I sound so snappy with my kids is that IMO I'm seeing the bigger picture where my DH just sees the here and now.

I agree that everybody needs creative time, to meet other people and have hobbies but the OP's wife seems to already have lots of support and understanding.

Italianherbgarden
I agree about the routine and planning ahead!! The thing is some people can see their weaknesses and try to correct them but others can't or won't admit it because many times it's not convenient. SIL does our head in with her endless complaints due her being completely disorganised and DH hardly ever reacts to her or he will rip her to shreds if he does by mentioning all her awful planning (or lack of) and how everybody else has to pick up the slack including her elderly parents. For years he would say nothing but he can't contain it anymore. FIL recently mentioned to DH that he is worried about the implications this will have on the DCs character as she constantly says how much they "bother" her.

I also had to learn to plan ahead and everyone benefits from that. I was alright when I was by myself but totally different when you have children.

totally agree chocorabbit -- DH and I are a disorganised mess, both over-committing people pleasers too - it was JUST about ok before we had kids but we had to get much better at planning post DC and even better at it after the second one.

Nearly all the crappy adversarial situations could be avoided with better upfront thought/plans, and if you HAVE mucked up, calm down and suck up the consequences.

I now see the point of planning (and checking things) :) I couldn't say I did before I had DC!

in fact, I've name-changed but I posted a thread about DD a few yeras back being always late for school as obsessed with watching TV and it always making us late and resulting in a fight...oh the things that you learn.

Someone pointed out to me, kindly, that I could turn the TV off earlier/not have it on at all in the AM!

Would it help to explain to your wife if things do nt change your son could be damaged and their relationship ruined

With children you get out what you put in.

I agree with you really that her parenting is a cause for concern if she is power struggling with a five year old and expecting him to change his own behaviour in response to anger.

I think, contrary to some posters, that actually you are probably being a bit too forgiving. This kind of parenting can be really damaging for a child and she needs to realise that she must learn different ways of parenting if she cares about her son’s healthy development.

I certainly wouldn’t be backing up a partner who was emotionally abusing my child.

Me neither Offred, they'd be given the heads up ONCE and then I'd take steps to ensure that they would NOT have access to my child again.

How, out of interest, does this 'mother' think she'll manage the DS at 7? or 11... or THE TEEN YEARS?

If she is 'clashing' (bullying) your DS now OP, what will she be doing then?

Telly on before school is where the wheels start to come off - I learned this (as a lone parent) with my DS.

He's in secondary school now and if he has his phone in his hand, things take 50% longer. WE had a row on Sunday as he delayed us leaving for rugby training. He IS old enough to know what time it is, what time he has and what time he needs to get himself ready.

Your 5yo doesn't.

Book recommendations:
Parenting From the Inside Out ,

By Daniel Siegel. This is essentially about leaving your childhood baggage behind and living/parenting in the present, in the moment.

Also- and really a must have book imho-
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk by Fabre and Mazlish
This is basically about respect. Give some respect to get some respect. Sometimes a little acknowledgement of a kid’s perspective will go a long way.

Also, being boys, encourage exercise as much as possible on a regular schedule. That will help manage their energy so it isn’t quite so built up to manifest itself in arguments, iyswim.

Glad to see some like-minded posters arriving.

The child is who is being maltreated here, not the mother with ample support, free time, and childcare...

Thumb - re this It's more along the lines of "rabbits are kangaroos mummy" "no they're not" " yes they ARE" "no they're really not" YES they ARE and I'M right and YOU're wrong!"

I don’t see why this is particularly a source of frustration. Why is is even any skin off your nose if your DC says rabbits are kangaroos? Why do you get into an argument about authority over it?

If a five year old said that I’d probably have smiled and said ‘Oh yes, rabbits and kangaroos look very similar don’t they? And they both hop about! I wonder if they are in the same animal family or if it is just a co-incidence, shall we look up some information about rabbits and kangaroos and see if they are related?’ And then I would have probably bored them to death/interested them with loads of interesting explanations about evolution and species and characteristics and development...

If it was just an attempt to wind me up I would have laughed and said something silly....

I don’t honestly understand why a parent would take that kind of thing seriously. If they are doing it because they are thinking about the world then think with them, if they are doing it to wind you up or assert authority don’t indulge it by getting into a power struggle and if it is just that they are mistaken let it go if you can.

I’ve been clashing with my son in a similar way, I’ve been reading “How to talk to little kids will listen” and our relationship and his ‘attitude’ have greatly benefitted. In all honesty I’ve read the first chapter but it’s been so helpful. I was very much at my wits ends, jealous as no one else seemed to have these issues and wondering if I’d done something wrong or there was something wrong with my son.

Thing is, you’d never buy a horse and expect to train it perfectly without any help, why should a child be different?