I feel bad, but im losing patience with my Mrs...

[DadPlaysItCool]

My partner seems to constantly be clashing with our 5(and a half) year old... She seems to think that he always responds to her with attitude, or he sounds miserable. Somewhat like a teenager i guess.
Im of the opinion that when he does this. it can be pretty normal for a kid his age. He definetley is NOT a miserable kid. But she clashes with him, ends up losing her rag with him. They get into an argument, and i step in. Or if im at work, i can almost time when my phone is going to ring, after shes dropped him to school, when she can tell me how he wasnt getting dressed, back chatting, etc etc...
she says "i dont see other kids talking like this" "he is miserable, and its driving me mad" Basically laying all responsibilty on his little shoulders... I approach him differently, and get vastly different results. She says "kids behave differently towards dads" which to some extent i agree with. But not totally. I feel that she has completely unrealistic expectations of what, and how a child should be acting etc. I think she sometimes treats him like an adult, instead of a kid.
I have said multiple times to try different methods, ways of approaching situations. Ive tried leading by example. Tried telling her to seek advice away from the home. We could look into parenting classes if she thinks it will help. Yet, the situation blows over, we carry on with life, and end up back in the same place. with little to no effort to change.... Just repeating the same behavior, expecting our child to just "change" ...
Its got to the point where now. When she comes to me to vent her frustrations, and talking bad about our kid. Im really struggling to not shout at her, or even be understanding towards it.
HELP! am i being unreasonable, is she right... Or do i need to need to actually demand she actually does something about it, rather than repeating the same cycle of sh*t.

We have a similar situation with the roles reversed. My DD is 6 and has some very challenging behaviour which my DH gets most of as I work full time while he is home educating with her.

They can just set each other off far too easily...and it is usually very easy for me to see ways to break the cycle as I am outside the loop. BUT! It really is fantastically harder when you are the parent that all the days worth of agro has built up against, than the parent that comes in with a clean slate to sort things out. My DH will try to get DD to brush her teeth or something and its immediately kicking off. I can ask the same thing in the same way and get sweet-natured compliance.

Also its just massively harder to be patient and take a consilatory tone when someone has essentially been being emotionally abusive to you all day....and that is what 5/6 yo are like sometimes.

Does she have any other "mum friends" to talk to? It may be that she needs to hear from other parents that their kids act in exactly the same way and it isnt just her own kid being "unusually bad".

Mummy - if it were things like your example (even though it's not an actual one) that would be fine. It's more along the lines of "rabbits are kangaroos mummy" "no they're not" " yes they ARE" "no they're really not" YES they ARE and I'M right and YOU're wrong!"

Hence the frustration. I'm waiting to see what happens when he picks a similar fight with his teacher at school.

My DH was like this with my kids when they were that age, they couldn't do anything right, so I can see exactly where you are coming from. And he didn't do anything at all with them - they just got on his nerves being in the house. Now they don't put up with it - one calls him on his behaviour and the other ignores him permanently (he likes the latter he thinks that she's well behaved )

No one should treat a 5 year old like that and you are right to be concerned; he is the child, she is the adult and no matter how hard it was for her as a child she has to step up and you are clearly ready to support her to do that. I had a similar childhood and I had similar problems, I struggled to control myself I suppose it was only seeing what a dick my husband was to the DCs that made me think "I'm all they have I cant keep failing" . That's all very well me saying that but how can you sort this out practically? I'm not aware of all areas running parenting classes for parents of children that age, it tends to be offered only for parents of teenagers where I live - I wonder what is available in your area or if you can access something via your health visitor, particularly if your youngest child is only 2 - you'd still have access to those services.

You sound great OP, keep being there for your little boy.

ThumbWitches
. What an imagination he has. My dd being older wouldn’t say something that like that but she does come out with a load of twaddle sometimes and I really have to bite my tongue because I’ve been programmed to right fight.

I think many of us have been raised certain ways and expect today to be the same - kids today are treated very differently - none of this seen and not heard, do as your told, clear you plate etc etc and it can be frustrating if you are not aware of some of the psychology behind things.

Most local authorities run some sort of parenting classes or awareness or programme to help parents - one such is called the Solihull Approach - not that its based only there its the name it was given as it was developed by a team there - you can google. But there are likely similar programmes in schools near you its really worth asking and doing if you are struggling - boys can be very challenging and you need to get into their psyche. Its often not easy as the partner to bring these sorts of things up but if it is sold as you learning together it can be a bit easier

Just to say you can also do the classes privately not just through the council courses.

is your wife trying to get both kids ready on the days she's having trouble? 5 and 2 year old, trying to all get out the house together, that is tough. Are there predictable flash-points in the routine that can be avoided with more planning? Mine is that if I don't get a shower before the children wake up, then I'm chasing my own tail and playing catch-up.

On the whole though, I agree with doctor sometimes when you're trying to help and make suggestions, without a prefacing statement about what a good parent she is, how well the kids are doing in general etc, it can feel like criticism.

It's hard not to take it personally but I do feel most of the stress with kids comes from either taking their behaviour too personally, (hard not to when they're aiming it AT you sometimes), or just having a deadline (like school drop off), where you as a parent can see the clock ticking and the child doesn't care.

I don't have a lot of advice I am afraid but I will share that the the Op's situation reminds me of mine and DH's (and DS's) that it is uncanny.

I always found dealing with DS much more difficult than DH did. I particularly really struggled at school drop off time as DS played up a great deal, also pick up time was a struggle. I too would regularly moan about DS to DH on the phone after these times (and at other times too) and was often in tears about it.

DS was actually very difficult (he ended up with a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD at 6 years old) but that does not change the fact that DH dealt with him much better and just had/has a more natural easy bond with him.

I knew however that my struggle with DS was a lot about me and my expectations and my experience of being parented myself. I still couldn't fix it and become as patient and accepting of DS as DH is, no matter how hard I tried as I am not DH, I am me.

However I did read around some stuff and something that really did help me was a book called Playful Parenting . I found it really difficult to do but the pay off in my relationship to DS was enormous.

DS is now 13 and our relationship has improved beyond measure. I do still sometimes tend to clash with him more than DH does but I notice the clashes much earlier now and disengage much quicker and start to think of other way of dealing with the issue rather than getting into a stand off as I would have done in the past

I also sometimes tell DS that I am not as patient a person as his dad and that sometimes I can be unreasonable - always said at relaxed times and with humour - not when we are arguing. In that way I hope DS understands that the way I sometimes behave is about my failings and not about him.

If your wife admits that a lot of the issues are to do with her expectations and her own issues rather your all about your DS, this is good start and she can work on it. It won't get better overnight though. Keep supporting her and helping her to improve but forgive her mistakes as long as she is trying.

If on the other hand she insists it is only because your DS is being difficult and she never admits to doubts about her part in this, then things are much more difficult for you and I am not sure what you should do but it is your job as his dad and as the emotionally more mature parent to protect him from this.

You know your family best so are best placed to work out how to do this but it will definitely involve talking and listening to your wife (with no advice for her at all, just listen) and deciding from there what you need to do

I wonder if she might agree to do a parenting course...while the emphasis is very much on parenting, the core of any decent course of this type is self reflection and healthy respectful relating to others, no matter the age/gender/relationship. It would hopefully help her to learn how to be a role model by doing, rather than shouting.
She would also learn on a course that, at age 5, a boy has the most testosterone relative to his size than he will ever have in the rest of his life, and punishing him for basic unavoidable biological processes is not healthy! Good luck.

RB68 just saw your post re parenting courses- Apologies for repeating your advice!

I really appreciate ALL the responses. Im not sure if some people are reading the whole thread first before commenting. but just to clarify, i do nearly half of the school runs. I always take both our children. Its not exactly taking charge if im only taking one of the kids... Im always completely relieveing her from mummy duties. Im not blowing smoke up my own arse by any means. Im just being honest with what our household is like. My better half is a loving, tentative, caring mother, and wife. Shes great! Im only concerned with how she is clashing with our five year old. we have only had one argument regarding the issue. Im here because i want to prevent anymore... We dont live in a house with loud shouting, arguing. Im not saying my 5 year old is an angel either. But i do feel like my partner doesnt want to accept that maybe her methods are not helping their relationship... Surely the only person who can fix it, is the adult.... not the five year old.

After all your responses, i actually sat down with my partner a short while ago. We had a heart to heart. She got upset and expressed she wants to "do her" more. go gym, pampering etc. She knows im always there for her with anything she wants to do. We had a cuddle, and a cuppa tea. I said i would look into some parenting classes etc.

Thanks again for all your responses. (even the judgemental ones...ha)

Has your partner ever said what she feels might be the cause of your son's behaviour (as she sees it)?

I have been guilty of referring to my DS (3) as "miserable" when everyone else would swear blind I was expecting too much. He is now being observed for ASD because his nursery also felt his emotional/social skills are not where they should be. Family (including his father) and friends still insist he is normal.

Would it be worth sitting down with her and finding out if she is worried about some underlying problem?

Good update OP - did you see that book that was recommended earlier by bumbling?

It took a while to get my DP to lower his expectations of our 5 year old, have you got any friends with similar aged children she could speak with to realise his behaviour is standard for his age?
Is she generally under a lot of stress? People can handle the same levels of stress differently so maybe she needs a bit of a break - could you take him for one weekend and arrange for her to do something she likes/suggest her having some time to herself or with friends? You might find after a break she finds his behaviour easier to deal with.
Also if you can see she is struggling with his behaviour while you are there, try stepping in, maybe say to her do you want to go make a cup of tea then within earshot deal with the issue and hopefully she might start to be able to step back and see a different way of dealing with that situation rather than being in the middle of it and not thinking as clearly where shes stressed.

Yes, thank you. i havent made a note of it, and the other books people have recommended. thank you. :)

sorry, i meant. i HAVE made a note of it... ha

I'm so pleased you are speaking honestly to each other and the pampering and gym and hopefully seeing friends (you haven't mentioned if she has good friends) should make her feel a lot less stressed. I love getting my hair and nails done, that's my thing and It makes me feel like a proper human person again.

Good update.

so, my better half(sorry, im not up on all the abbreviations on here...) admits herself she isnt the most patient of people. which is fine... Its just hard sometimes when i feel like my son (from my pov) hasnt really done much wrong, or at least its something that an adult could ignore from a 5 year old. but she bites... he bites back, and it escalates. and i know some may say "well she may of had days of built up frustration" but this can happen in any situation it seems. sometimes i feel like she (without knowing maybe) thinks that he should think, and understand things like an adult... sometimes i can see her getting clearly frustrated even when say, he is trying to build something and he isnt quite "getting it" ... She tries to help him, but that frustrates him, so he gets a bit snappy, she snaps back... etc etc...

Has she seen seen the thread? It might help her to know that lots of women have the exact same struggle as her and no one is judging, people just want to help.

She sounds exactly like I was with my five year old son. He is now 20 and is a lovely young man.

She has a small, but close circle of friends. They are all her friends from childhood. They all have kids around the same age... They often meet up to do stuff with the kids. But also they go out together. Just last week she went out with her mates for dinner, and a dance. she got drunk, came home late, and i took the boys out the next day so she could nurse her hangover... Its hard to paint a picture of our life in a few lines, so i understand some people may make general assumptions.
All i can say is. We have a lovely life. Obviousy not perfect(whos is) but we are there for each other, give each other space, free time, family time, romantic time. we get lots of help from family when needed.

I think I must be reading a different thread to everybody else.

No way would I accept hostile parenting which is what this is from a dad so why would I accept it and provide excuses for a Mum.

We are not talking a sole parent with no adult support. There is only so much you can hand hold and brow stroke without getting to the point where you need to do a sort it or you leave and I take over

I thought about showing her the thread... Not quite sure yet. :-) We had a nice chat, and hopefully we can make steps to sort this issue out. I hate seeing their otherwise great "mother son" relationship be tainted.
Guess i needed to vent a bit too... It acutally helped.

I have been a bit like that. I think at 5, they're comes a bit that feels like a plateau for the parent. The child can think it is now "grown up" because they can do so much. So they start to play up and in a way seem even older. At the same time to the parent it doesn't seem like much progress is being made with regards to "growing up".

Perhaps your wife is a bit drained by this. It feels like they aren't growing at all and it's been like this forever (and it's going to be).I also agree that she may be reacting automatically to his behaviour.

I would also add that (from my own experience) you react one moment at a time, so you don't see (although I did) that actually you then spend all your time together frustrated and cross.

Try and document a day and relay to your wife (without judgement), it's not nice for a 5year old child to be shouted at a lot and the mix of good times with one parent and anger with another can seriously mess them up. Remind your wife that some things are not worth stressing over and that this apparent lull in growth isn't what it seems. They are getting ready for the next stage and what you put in now - you will get in the future.

(I hope this makes sense, I dont have much time but really wanted to post)