Ok, you buggers (affectionately said). Are some affairs more acceptable than others?

[Koala72]

Right. So, after an unpleasant brush with a psychopathic sociopathic female who attempted to break up our family, I have studied the whole business of affairs for a while now.

And this is the question to you lot:

A lot of men - pretty much most men - seem to have sex or an EA out of their main partnership at one time or another. I did a survey of all the men I know, and only found a couple who hadn't (and I mean family, extended family, all friends, colleagues, neighbours - all of them).

Let us just swallow the bitter pill and say ok, this is likely to happen.
(for argument's sake)

Now - whereas an affair with a woman who intends to stay with the guy, and therefore this will involve him leaving his main partner and possibly kids, is clearly very destructive and life-changing, is it ok for him to have an affair, dalliance, EA, whatever, with a woman who doesn't want him to leave his family?

So, she wants to see him a couple of times a month, talk to him, have him as some kind of sex interest, but the last thing on earth she would want would be for him to leave his main family. Mutual discretion, controlled behaviour, both sides safeguarding any families involved so that they just have a private relationship which in some way helps them, and hurts nobody.

Isn't this OK? (given that if it's going to happen, it may as well happen in a way that doesn't hurt anybody??)

All hypothetical, of course.

Surely it would break the relationship up regardless. Or it would in my case. If I found out my DP slept with it even kissed someone else, even if it "meant nothing" and they weren't leaving me, I wouldn't be able to look at them. Game over.

Myself and my siblings are the product of an affair. We were my father's dirty little secret and we had a miserable childhood.

We were hidden away excluded from family events, relationship's with grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and half-siblings on my father's side.

My mum was very unhappy and very lonely - left as a single parent with four kids. My dad used to visit once per month. I didn't know I had half-siblings until after my dad died, I bumped into one of my half-brothers in the street, he was the spitting image of my dad. When my dad died we weren't included in his funeral or acknowledged.

My mum never had a bad word to say about my dad and wouldn't let any of us say anything negative about him. I was angry with her for a long time for excusing his poor behaviour.

I never considered my mum's feelings and it took me a long long time to realise and understand that my mum just fell in love with the wrong man.

So from my position, no it's not ok to have an affair.

@mancaved yes. There are open marriages. But there are far fewer people that are comfortable functioning in open marriages. I also think u happily married people or happy married people that fall into affairs would much rather go along with their own affair than tell their partner, you want to get into an open marriage, I found someone else.

If most men have affairs - and that's a big if - then I don't think effectively shrugging our shoulders and saying 'get on with it then, just be discreet' is the answer. The answer is to challenge that kind of shitty behaviour. I would never compromise my values to remain married. I would rather be single. I hold my husband to the exact same standard of behaviour I hold myself too. There is no earthly reason why men should cheat more than women apart from society deeming it OK. I will not go along with that. Its not OK to promise somebody fidelity and then sneak around behind their back.

I also think the thread title is misleading. It seems to be asking whether some affairs are okay as justified as long as no one finds out and no one gets hurt.

I think it all comes down to, how would you yourself feel if you were on the receiving end of that sort of treatment? If you own partner was leading a secret life with another person right below the surface of your own life and that of your children?

You need to question why does your partner need to lead that secret life? Sexual gratification? Emotional gratification? Boredom?

During my confrontation with my own wife about her EA (even though she still refuses to see it that way) ... Her explanation was, "I was bored."

No. Most men don't have affairs. It's an untrue blanket statement.

probably the dream scenario what the hell is your agenda? I don’t think it’s healthy.

It’s all very well to discuss this in a cold intellectual fashion but if my DH had an affair I was never meant to know about it would destroy me if I found out - therefore it’s wrong for him to do. If you’re doing something that would deeply hurt your partner you’re doing something wrong, whether they find out or not.

It’s like the tree falling in the woods - it doesn’t matter if the sound is heard, the sound waves still exist and they still alter the atmosphere as they pass through.

Sometimes an affair is the only way out of a controlling marriage. No doubt it's an exit for both sexes, but the people I know who've done it were female. Everyone is happier now, bar the grim men they'd married by mistake.

I know one woman who while married to a fine man, met the love of her life. Very rare, everyone remarried fast, and again, all are happier.

Fanatic anti-infidelity, like fanatic anything, probably doesn't make sense. If sense is allowed in this discussion.

I think the question itself is ridiculous.

Of course an affair is not ok. Any type of affair, from either side, for whatever reason.

'You can love more than one person' is a cheap and easy excuse.

This is such a sad post.

I hate to think my dh would cheat and I genuinely believe he wouldn't. Maybe I'm naive. I trust him completley.

I would bet my life that most of the men I know well HAVEN’T had affairs. It’s outdated claptrap that ‘most men’ need something outside marriage. And no, it’s never OK to deceive somebody who loves and trusts you, no matter how superficial the affair is. It’s shitty selfish behaviour.

Fanatic anti-infidelity, like fanatic anything, probably doesn't make sense.
I'm against murder. I know that there are some cases when a woman is so badly tortured and driven to desperation that murder may be the only way she feels she can escape a controlling man. But that doesn't mean murder is sometimes OK. It means that she was in a terrible situation where she felt it was one bad thing or another. I feel sorry that she got in such an awful place, and I am still against murder. Fanatically, if you like.

I met a new lady yesterday (meet up kind of thing on Hey vinas) same age as me, very beautiful in a casual way and clever and had been married to a very rich guy. 5 years ago was totally blindsided out of the blue, he had been having an affair, OW 20 years younger, also very successful. This woman said she could honestly say she knew absolutely nothing till he left his phone behind in error one day and she saw multiple calls coming in and heard a voice message. He was totally the last person she thought would do this. They were happy, successful, comfortably off, lots of future plans etc. Ended up divorced, him remarried, business gone etc . She does though have a lovely new partner for last 4 years. Never ever think it can’t happen to you because you have a special bond or are not unhappy . Some men clearly lose all sense of reality, and gain a sense of entitlement and think with their dicks, particularly in middle age .

I think most people will be cheated on at some point possibly even all of us we just don’t know.

Emotionally being cheated on but not knowing/suspecting is better on the whole as we don’t know so it doesn’t harm us emotionally.

Psychically all cheating can harm us via std’s/sti’s.

I don’t think cheating is right what so ever but it’s never going to not happen or be eradicated it’s not a disease. The only way it would stop a bit is for people to have more self respect for themselves to not want to be the bit on the side (male or female) that doesn’t help the unkowning ow/om and for people who know of cheating not to keep quite but to actually bring it out and show they don’t approve. The cheater themselves will aways want to cheat male or female and that will never change as some people are just like that.

A lot of men - pretty much most men - seem to have sex or an EA out of their main partnership at one time or another

Must just be the class of man you know, because in my long experience this is absolute bollocks.

Men in general have always been driven by sex. I’m surprised this comes as a surprise! Isn’t it what humans were put on the planet for? In fact all animals, Survival of the species etc...

Generally, when men look at women, they assess whether they would like to sleep with them within a very short space of time. It may be true of women too. I don’t know that bit. There have been studies on this.

However not all people act on it as society over time has told them that it isn’t acceptable. Yes some men will cheat but there are many that don’t.

Not worth worrying about it it really? Out of your control.

Men who do though can certainly have sex with a stranger without any emotional hang up whatsoever. That’s why these affairs often don’t get found out as there is zero emotional connection and no big drama afterwards as the man was not ever going to leave his wife. He just wanted sex because he found that person attractive.

Sex isn't a basic human need.

Why do people feel entitled to it?

I tjink it's to do with low self esteem and the ego boost it gives the cheater that they're desirable and wanted.

We will never know statistics on this except from possibly an anonymous poll.

My H had an affair. No-one knows, just Me, H and OW and we have told no-one.

My closest friends would be shocked and I often wonder if any of them are keeping a similar secret.

So to all those saying ‘of the people I know’ you probably don’t.

It's kind of irrelevant whether I sit here thinking I will get cheated on or not. It's a bit like thinking you will get ill at some point.

I would rather believe that Dh would not cheat, if he does one day I will then decide what to do, I woukd find it extremely hard to forgive because of who I am.

I won't sit here thinking it will never happen to me, as we can't realistically predict stuff like that and it's ultimately out of our control.

I can categorically say I woukd not cheat though as I am fully in control of that!

There is another scenario, one which I've seen played out on MN occasionally, where one person is a marriage is desperately unhappy and unfulfilled, emotionally and physically. However, it's not abusive and they co-parent successfully. That person knows that leaving their marriage will have damaging consequences for their partner, their children, and their own relationship with their children. So they grit their teeth and just muddle along unhappy forever.
Is it possible to forgive that person for enjoying some intimacy elsewhere, done discreetly?

I dont know about this ‘most men dont have affairs’

My industry involves a lot of overseas travel, especially to the far east and some developing countries. Whlst the some of men I work with might not have affairs a lot of them have no problem sleeping with prostitues when away.

My partner worked in investment banking. Affairs were rife, whether male or female. So our combined experience is that a hell of a lot of people cheat. I also suspect quite a few men can be happily married for years, never an affair but have had numerous ONS which their partners are unaware of.

"Is it possible to forgive that person for enjoying some intimacy elsewhere, done discreetly?"

Anything is forgivable. But the decent thing to do is state your unhappiness, make a serious attempt to fix it (you owe at least that much to someone you married), and if it doesn't work out, seek separation and then divorce.

Your goal should be to embark on a life that gives you happiness. It will never happen if you cheat behind your partner back.

Has anyone said most people dont have affairs? I have read whole thread but dont remember reading that (but it might have been said). I think its more a case that its best not treated as inevitable. Also your samples dont sound very representative. People travelling abroad for work, and investment bankers are not a very good sample to generalise from IMO. Just as some people may know hardly anyone who has had an affair- you may know loads. The true answer is somewhere in the middle. Distribution of the "type" may be unequal across profession, "class", etc.
That said I believe loads of people have affairs (like I said in a previous post, loads of people are basically selfish arses).

If something is forgivable, then by definition it must be a shitty thing to do.

There is no such thing as an affair that doesn't hurt anyone. Even if the cheated-on partner never finds out, they (and possibly their children) have been lied to repeatedly by someone they should have been able to trust, their bodily autonomy had been compromised, and their partner has put time, money and energy that should belong to the marriage/partnership into the affair instead.

I don't know why anyone thinks they won't be found out. I know someone who found out their husband had had a 20+ year affair after he'd died. She (and the rest of us) had never suspected, but it helped explain why he'd not been so nice to live with the last couple of decades.

On the flip side, I know a couple who began an affair when both of them were in the final stages of abusive marriages with other people. They're now happily married, have been for around 10 years. If any affair is forgivable, it's theirs. Somehow two of the children involved can't forgive them, though.